An Honest Assessment: Who are our keepers?

[The Frankish Reich]

Well, that was fun while it lasted.  This is not a very talented team. McDermott got more our of a lot of marginal players than he had any right to expect, but it's time to start planning for the future. The roster is filled with: (A) useful players signed at free agent/market value contracts; (B) veterans signed a free agent market value who have contracts expiring at the end of the year; (C) useful players on rookie contracts who are about to get expensive; and (D) a very few young players still on their rookie contracts who should be expected to continue to provide value; (E) players we're stuck with who are not performing commensurate with their salaries; (F) everyone else - the replacement level vets.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I see:

 

A. The Useful Players Being Paid at Market Value Who are Under Contract for Next Year

- Hyde

- Poyer

- Hughes

- Hauschka

- Groy (hasn't played; don't ask me why he hasn't; based on last year, I put him in this category)

- McCoy (although it's hard to tell with this O line if he may have lost a step)

- Tolbert (I didn't say good; I said useful at the price)

- Ryan Davis (ditto)

- Andre Holmes (ditto)

 

B. Useful Veterans Playing for Market Value on Expiring Contracts

- Kyle Williams

(really, I can't think of anyone else in this category)

 

C. Useful Players on Rookie Contracts Who Are About to Get More (Too?) Expensive

- Matthews

- Preston Brown

-Gaines

(a short list since all other 2014 draft picks not counting Seantrel, who fits nicely in Category (F) below, are gone)

 

D. Players Still on Rookie Contract in 2018 - the "Excess Value" Contingent

- Kelvin Benjamin (5th year option)

- O'Leary (see the Tolbert/Davis/Holmes rule above)

- Lawson (the champion edge setter I hear; no need to worry about the edge when opponents run straight up the middle!)

- Adolphus (minimal value)

- T. White (the big winner!)

- Zay

- Dawkins/Milano/Peterman/Vallejo (the "nothing to grade them on" list)

 

E. The "Can't Dump 'Em/Overpaid List" (unless you dump 'em Dareus style)

- Incognito (well worth it on his renegotiated deal the last couple years; next year it balloons to double at $6.325 million)

- Glenn (worth it if he's on the field; he isn't)

- Clay (not even worth it if he is on the field)

- Lorax (I'll admit it: on the cusp between List A and this one)

- Wood (I thought Groy outplayed him last year; why the brought him back at his age and after a serious injury at a high price is beyond me)

- Ducasse (not really highly paid, but overpriced at any price)

- Tyrod (because he takes home $16 million next year and will now be viewed as a backup only)

- DiMarco (because when you bring in a blocking-only FB and your running game gets appreciably worse ...)

 

F. The Replacement Level/You Might as Well Just Raid the Waiver Wire All Over Again list

- everyone else

 

So the keepers?  Well, if you're starting about building a team up from the bottom with an eye toward contending in 2020, my list begins and ends with Tre'Davious White. Maybe Dawkins and Zay Jones; we'll see by the end of this season. If you're talking about staying somewhat competitive for next year, add Poyer-Hyde-McCoy. That's it. That's ... depressing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fridge]

From that list P. Brown is probably gone. A bit slow for the "process" but not bad enough to get a cheap contract.

 

If Tyrod stays there's no point in even trying to re-sign Matthews since 3 catches in a game automatically becomes your season high and I don't know why anyone would sign up for that.

 

I don't have a lot of faith, but I'm hoping this front office realizes things like giving L. Alexander a new contract is absolutely ridiculous.

[The Now Moment]

To me, Groy isn't playing because he doesn't fit.  Who knows though?  All the linebacker need to go except for Milano.  The secondary honestly is in the best shape, needs another corner and some depth, the dline needs two DTs but I think Hughes and Shaq are fine maybe add another to rotate.  For the offense, new QB, a running mate for Mccoy, a couple new lineman and a speedy wideout.  Offensive line probably will see the biggest changes on it, imo

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

To me, Groy isn't playing because he doesn't fit.  Who knows though?  All the linebacker need to go except for Milano.  The secondary honestly is in the best shape, needs another corner and some depth, the dline needs two DTs but I think Hughes and Shaq are fine maybe add another to rotate.  For the offense, new QB, a running mate for Mccoy, a couple new lineman and a speedy wideout.  Offensive line probably will see the biggest changes on it, imo

Well, I don't disagree with you, but I would point out that you've just flagged the following needs:

- 2 offensive linemen (and that might be assuming that Richie stays)

- 1 CB

- at least 3 LBs

- 2 DTs

- a new QB

- a good second RB

- a speedy WR

Other than those needs (11 new/improved players!), everything is fine ....

[The Now Moment]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, I don't disagree with you, but I would point out that you've just flagged the following needs:

- 2 offensive linemen (and that might be assuming that Richie stays)

- 1 CB

- at least 3 LBs

- 2 DTs

- a new QB

- a good second RB

- a speedy WR

Other than those needs (11 new/improved players!), everything is fine ....

I know...we are rebuilding with a new regime.  They have had success with old veterans that don't fit their scheme.  It will take a few offseasons but they will repave this roster with their guys and it will be for the better.  Can't fit a round player into a square coaching scheme.  They've set themselves up to make a nice dent in that though this offseason with more cap space and a lot of draft picks.

[MAJBobby]

Here are your positions in need of upgrades.

 

OB - Obvious

RB - need legit depth (buh bye Tolbert)

OG x 2 - Need one starter next year and then one to groom for the year after

OT x 1 (maybe two depending on what they do with Glenn)

 

DT x 2 Need two starters (kyle is a rotational player at this point if he even comes back)

DE x 2 Need some speed here for the rotation

OLB x 2 Need a Starting SLB and depth

MLB x 1 This is iffy could win with Brown but could upgrade here too

CB x 3 - need a starter (gaines health worries me) and depth

 

 

So overall I might not have said it right but

Starters needed in 

QB

OG

OT

DTx2

OLB

CB

 

Depth at 

RB

OG

OT

DE

OLB

MLB

CB

 

That a ton for a team in the middle of a 17 year rebuild LOL

Edited November 12, 2017 by MAJBobby

[Adam727]

At this point?  Maybe Hyde, Clay, Gaines, Dawkins?

 

Not sure I see anyone else on this roster worth building a team around.  

[njbuff]

The Bills front seven is pitiful and that is where they should invest draft picks and spend a decent amount of their 50+ million in cap space on in 2018.

 

Plus, there are a lot of good LB's in the 2018 draft, so they should do well there.

[Rico]

This year's draft picks, Hyde, Poyer, Hauschka, yes Shady, and KB. That's all I've got after today's game.

[The Now Moment]

13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Here are your positions in need of upgrades.

 

OB - Obvious

RB - need legit depth (buh bye Tolbert)

OG x 2 - Need one starter next year and then one to groom for the year after

OT x 1 (maybe two depending on what they do with Glenn)

 

DT x 2 Need two starters (kyle is a rotational player at this point if he even comes back)

DE x 2 Need some speed here for the rotation

OLB x 2 Need a Starting SLB and depth

MLB x 1 This is iffy could win with Brown but could upgrade here too

CB x 3 - need a starter (gaines health worries me) and depth

 

 

So overall I might not have said it right but

Starters needed in 

QB

OG

OT

DTx2

OLB

CB

 

Depth at 

RB

OG

OT

DE

OLB

MLB

CB

 

That a ton for a team in the middle of a 17 year rebuild LOL

Well for this regime it's the start of a new rebuild.  I trust this front office to get the right guys in the building.  It'll take a while but we have to stop hitting reset so fast.  This seems like a good head coach and GM combo, let's let it play out

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

Well for this regime it's the start of a new rebuild.  I trust this front office to get the right guys in the building.  It'll take a while but we have to stop hitting reset so fast.  This seems like a good head coach and GM combo, let's let it play out

 

Depends do they self scout in the offseason and admit their flaws and correct them or no.

 

At this moment they look alot more like a DJ 2.0 staff than one that can get it right

Edited November 12, 2017 by MAJBobby

[The Now Moment]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Depends do they self scout in the offseason and admit their flaws and correct them or no.

I think every move they've made so far has benefitted the long term so far.  They haven't made mistakes, the team has played hard for the most part despite the last two games with a minimally talented roster.  They got rid of guys that didn't fit their scheme.  They are playing the long term game.  They just don't care if we don't win now, they are rebuilding and this offseason they've set themselves up to reshape the roster and bring in "their guys".  If they hit on the players, this ship will be turn around with a little patience

[Roundybout]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Depends do they self scout in the offseason and admit their flaws and correct them or no.

 

At this moment they look alot more like a DJ 2.0 staff than one that can get it right

 

Well, we dont know yet because theyve never HAD an off-season of their own. I would bet they self scout if the fluff pieces are true.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

I think every move they've made so far has benefitted the long term so far.  They haven't made mistakes, the team has played hard for the most part despite the last two games with a minimally talented roster.  They got rid of guys that didn't fit their scheme.  They are playing the long term game.  They just don't care if we don't win now, they are rebuilding and this offseason they've set themselves up to reshape the roster and bring in "their guys".  If they hit on the players, this ship will be turn around with a little patience

Then do it completely.

 

Bench the QB and move on.

 

Cut Holmes Ducasse Davis and get the pick. 

 

That is not true they are absolutely trying to break the drought. Spin it how you want.  KB trade soldifies they want and are actively trying to win NOW

1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Well, we dont know yet because theyve never HAD an off-season of their own. I would bet they self scout if the fluff pieces are true.

What was this Offseason.  Dont even MENTION Whaley it was all McD

[The Now Moment]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Then do it completely.

 

Bench the QB and move on.

 

Cut Holmes Ducasse Davis and get the pick. 

 

That is not true they are absolutely trying to break the drought. Spin it how you want.  KB trade soldifies they want and are actively trying to win NOW

Yeah, they said they would try to play hard...doesn't mean there isn't a rebuild going on.  They are just trying to be somewhat successful throughout instead of sucking like the browns.  I think if the season starts to slip they will cut those players and bench the QB but right now we are 5-4 and still in the hunt.  If we continue to play horribly, they will make a move.  Now might be too early to give up.  In a week or two though, if we keep getting blown out, you bet things will be changing.  It's all about timing I think.  

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Yeah, they said they would try to play hard...doesn't mean there isn't a rebuild going on.  They are just trying to be somewhat successful throughout instead of sucking like the browns.  I think if the season starts to slip they will cut those players and bench the QB but right now we are 5-4 and still in the hunt.  If we continue to play horribly, they will make a move.  Now might be too early to give up.  In a week or two though, if we keep getting blown out, you bet things will be changing.  It's all about timing I think.  

 

I think it comes down to how much rebuild talk the fans what to hear.  How is McVey doing in his first year?  rebuilding?

[Sweats]

......fire everybody.

[CommonCents]

Poyer has looked entirely different since the injury, I'd be careful listing him as a keeper. He has looked hesitant/slow in the run and pass game.

[The Now Moment]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

I think it comes down to how much rebuild talk the fans what to hear.  How is McVey doing in his first year?  rebuilding?

His schemes matched his players better and he has a ton of young talent at all positions on that team.  

As for the fans, if they keep pushing guys out of town before they've been given a chance this team will never win.  We don't have the players that match the schemes.  Until we match them up, we will constantly have players that don't fit and we will continue to fall right back into mediocrity.  It's just been one big cycle.  I think this regime is the right regime.  If we have any patience left, these are the guys to trust and use it on.  Their rookies have played well in the scheme so far.  These old guys that they inherited, aren't looking so great.  Let them bring of their guys...hoping the fans see it through

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Commonsense said:

Poyer has looked entirely different since the injury, I'd be careful listing him as a keeper. He has looked hesitant/slow in the run and pass game.

I dont think his knee is healthy actually.

 

The issue I see alot on this defense is they lived off turnovers so their tackling is suffering the last couple weeks going for the strip and I even saw Poyer try and guess and jump a crosser before thrown, brees just held and waited for him to clear the jumped route.  They are trying to much to create the TO