A Few Thoughts About the Saints Game

[Virgil]

The second half of the season is officially upon us and we start it with a home game with extra rest.  We got healthy in some key positions and added a true number one receiver.   If the Bills were to prove they aren't the same old Bills who blow a 5-2 season start, this was where it began.  

 

1 - Rush Defense - I start here because it's all that really needs to be known about the game.  The Saints completed a 10 play drive for 93 yards where they didn't throw a single pass.  It was capped with a Brees rushing TD.  Yes, a Drew Brees 7 yard rushing touchdown.  On that drive, Kamara fell down just beyond the line of scrimmage, had time to get back up, and rush for three more yards.  That's how bad our once great rush defense was.  We were absolutely gashed on the ground as well as multiple 3rd and long plays where a simple pitch got the first.  This might have been the most brutal rush defense I can remember in years, and that includes the Ajayi games last year.

 

2 - Tackling - For a team that was praised for it's fundamentals in the first few weeks, the wheels have completely fallen off the past few weeks.  If you saw the Jets game and all of those broken tackles, you saw more of the same and a little more this week.  Multiple, and I mean multiple drives could have been stopped with better tackling but we just couldn't get it done.  I'm talking Hyde, Lorax, Humber; everyone came to the party.  As the game went on and it was clear our offense wasn't going to do anything, you could see them giving up and it showed in the tackling effort.

 

3 - Defensive Penalties - If you didn't know any better, you would think we were playing in New Orleans.  We jumped offsides on 3rd and short twice to give up first downs and were right back to extending early drives with ridiculous judgement lapse penalties.  Again, another area of pride in the early season is now showing signs of previous regimes and falling apart.

 

4 - You say you cannot live with me, you need your own identity
And now we air our laundry on national TV
And so you hate my arrogance, my smothering and sitting on the fence,
But I'm afraid of the hard permanence of letting you go free

 

5 - Pass Rush - I hate to harp on the same things week after week, but this is my number one issue with McDermott and our defense.  We just refuse to send more that 4-5 guys at any time.  When we send 5, there are no stunts or masking rushers.  When we send 4, there's little to no result.  There were a few 3rd and long plays were the coverage was good downfield, but Brees just had all day to throw.  It got to the point where even the announcers didn't know what to say about it.  It's the definition of insanity out there and we have Rivers, Brady x2, and Smith coming up.  It's going to get worse before it gets better.  

 

6 - Special Teams - I can't understand why we kept punting to Ginn, and we punted A LOT.  No, he didn't break one, but his returns were good.  We didn't try to pin him in a corner or contain him at all.  We even outpunted our coverage a few times.  Just made no sense.  Also, the Saints didn't punt one time.  That's right.  THE SAINTS DID NOT PUNT THE BALL!

 

7 - Offensive Play Calling - I'm not dumping our offense just on Dennison.  He gets a fair share of the blame though.  Outside of the first drive, our offense might have been the worst I've seen it in the past few years.  We ran a toss option to Tolbert.  That's right, Tolbert.  Announcers kept calling out how receivers were running the same routes downfield and couldn't get open.  Dennison isn't on the field to make the reads, but he also isn't creating a gameplan that fits TT's strengths.  In a game where Clay is back and Benjamin is out there, 3 points is inexcusable.  

 

8 - Tyrod - While I put half of this on Dennison, TT owns the rest.  If he's on point, we score a touchdown on the first drive.  He missed Kelvin twice, once for a TD.  After that drive, there's nothing to even write about.  His protection was pretty good all day.  The running game was there if needed.  He had all his weapons.  And we were playing the Saints.  At that point, you can't just point to playcalling or receivers getting open, the QB owns it too.  After 2.5 years and with this surrounding cast, it's just time to call it as I see it.  Nothing personal, but it's Peterman time.

 

9 - The Process - If this is what we get for trusting the process, I'm concerned or the fans and the players.  You could see the defense start to give up at the beginning of the second half and it's understandable knowing the offense wasn't going to do anything.  We knew it could be a rough year with the players we lost and the salary dump, and our schedule, but we were 5-2.  I've questioned what would happen when we hit a rough patch, and now we will see.  This team looks as much like last years Rex team as anything else.  We will now see what the process brings out.

 

10 - McDermott - There was a thread comparing McDermott to Chip Kelly.  I thought it was absurd at the time, but I'm starting to wonder a bit.  Not because of the playcalling philosophy, but because of the "my way or the highway" mentality.  The players on the field are the ones McDermott wants.  Dareus, Sammy, Woods, were not good fits.  Tolbert is his 2nd rb, Ducasse is his starting guard while Miller is a healthy scratch.  I believe a Head Coach is supposed to find ways to motivate his players, give them a goal, and also find a system that maximizes their talents.  McDermott only seems to want people who will do what he wants and shares his vision, talented or not.  We are seeing the results of that now.  Hopefully, with cap space and draft picks, he will get all those guys.  If not, this could be year 1 of 3 before another rebuild.  

 

*Side Note  - I'm not the ethical standard of posters and don't want to pretend to be.  But we have so many threads calling us a playoff team after 5 wins and so many other posters who can't wait to say I told you so.  Can we please acknowledge that we all want the same goal and this hurts us all equally?  The pessimists remember the previous two 5-2 starts and the optimists saw the flashes of hope and ran with it.  Neither are wrong for their opinions.  No one wins when the other is right.  That's all I got.

 

Two rough weeks in a row and some quality QB's coming up.  Let's remember what this season was supposed to be and keep watching some of these guys develop.  

 

Go Bills!

[chris heff]

I now believe the Chip Kelly comparison is correct. I agree with everything you wrote.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Not sure how the running game was there. Outside of the first drive I think we rushed for maybe 20 yards.

 

batted balls, bad playcalls, penalties, bad qb play.. debacle. Peterman looked ok, but I worry about him and the blitz.  

[Bill from NYC]

Nice job as usual.

 

The line play on both sides was so bad, it brought back memories of Jauron. Take Glenn of that OL and they range from average to sucking, and this includes Incognito. It was THAT sickening. 

 

Hopefully they will properly address this but I think most of us know where they will focus.

[Maine-iac]

Peterman or Taylor I don't care.  What concerns me more currently is what the hell happened to our defense?  Then with Dennison as our coordinator are we not going to be able to run it well again?  We were the best running team in the NFL two years in a row and not by a little.  We averaged 50 to 60 yards a game more and 5 points a game more on offense than we are currently.   As much as we would like a player to make an improvement for our team we need to stop bringing in coaches that make things worse.  McDermott needs to get that defense corrected and I'm not sure Dennison will ever have this offense scoring to where it was.

[Virgil]

17 minutes ago, dneveu said:

Not sure how the running game was there. Outside of the first drive I think we rushed for maybe 20 yards.

 

batted balls, bad playcalls, penalties, bad qb play.. debacle. Peterman looked ok, but I worry about him and the blitz.  

 

When they were being cute with Tolbert, they weren’t shutting McCoy down. We just abandoned it and had some really questionable playcalling before it turned into a blowout 

[Believer]

Cut Tolbert... Make DiMarco the blocking and short yardage back... Go out and get a decent second RB... If the big plus for Tolbert is his veteran presence in the locker room... it is not making any difference on the playing field... Enough...

Edited November 12, 2017 by Believer

[Gray Beard]

That's a lot of good thinking and coherent writing, and you did it within an hour of the end of the game.  I'm impressed.

And I agree with everything you say.  My observation is that they ran Shady on some downs that seemed like passing situations.  With the awful blocking and/or play design, Shady gets tackled for no gain a little too often.  

[Bill from NYC]

I think that it is fairly safe to say that Kyle Williams, as much as we respect him, looks as if he suddenly slammed into a wall.

[Bigantall]

I just fed  up  with it all, as much as I like tyrod I just don't think  he's  the answer. The play call was atrocious  the defense was worst I thought  I  liked  Preston  brown  but he's awful,  this stupid a$$  zone defense  has got to go it's nothing  more than a point  machine  for our opponents. As far as these  pressers  just stop  having  them after the  games play back the ones  from  previous  weeks they just say  the same  crap   blah   blah blah  

2 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that it is fairly safe to say that Kyle Williams, as much as we respect him, looks as if he suddenly slammed into a wall.

Yes I agree we love  kyle  but he's  seen  his better  days

[Bangarang]

Defense couldn’t stop a nosebleed and our passing attack was as pathetic as ever.

[Coach Tuesday]

The coach and GM seem to have trouble identifying talent and understanding which schemes make sense in today’s NFL.  THAT to me is the biggest concern.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Coach Tuesday

[Gray Beard]

Brees threw some jump balls that his receivers went up and got.  I see that in almost every game that I watch, except with the Bills.  Tyrod doesn't do that.  Maybe that can't be taught and it could be the biggest reason why Tyrod isn't the answer.

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that it is fairly safe to say that Kyle Williams, as much as we respect him, looks as if he suddenly slammed into a wall.

Yup. He is clearly no longer a playmaker.

[rant_and_go_returns]

56 minutes ago, Virgil said:

We ran a toss option to Tolbert.  That's right, Tolbert. 

Right before that, McCoy ran the same play and did great.

Coaches were like "That's great!!!! Time to do it with my guy."

 

58 minutes ago, Virgil said:

10 - McDermott - the "my way or the highway" mentality.  

 

It's not even that. It's more of McD only knows one thing, and got by so far by making the boss happy.

He's the boss now, and his willing to trade cool things for winning. "Don't worry about me having to learn something new to fit the personell. We've got fumble drill, and zone blocking!"

New head coach gets 5 wins in October. Pivotal game against the Jets, then a southern NFC team:

It's Call of Duty time!
Just like 2011 with Gailey!!!

Anyone know if McD joined up with the kids too and played with their toys, instead of doing their jobs?

Norv Turner. Jimbo Fisher. Sean McDermott. From clapping fool to sideline psycho.

[BeginnersMind]

Chip Kelly was an arrogant d—. I don’t see McD as that but I’ll give him a pass on some of these decisions. I’m as bitter as anyone about the kooks aid taste of playoffs now turning in my mouth, but I still will give McD the pass he deserves this year with this questionable batch of talent. 

 

Id like to see the Bills right the ship on the blowouts at least. 

 

I dont think any answers lie with Peterman. But Tyrod did look like garbage today and he had plenty of time unlike last week. He doesn’t play defense, and Brady couldn’t have outscored the Saints today, but still Tyrod stunk. 

And Mike Tolbert makes me mental. Every time he touches the ball. 

[Maine-iac]

15 minutes ago, Gray Beard said:

Brees threw some jump balls that his receivers went up and got.  I see that in almost every game that I watch, except with the Bills.  Tyrod doesn't do that.  Maybe that can't be taught and it could be the biggest reason why Tyrod isn't the answer.

Thompson went up and never came down with it.  Fact is Taylor or Peterman it doesn't matter.  This team was supposed to run the ball and play defense if it wanted to win.  If we get more negative runs than positive, can't play defense, and get a flag every offensive first down and defensive 3rd down we are going to have many many games just like this.

[JinxedBill1]

Agreed on all points.  Taylor played scared all day.  You can't win games that way with our defense playing so poorly. 

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that it is fairly safe to say that Kyle Williams, as much as we respect him, looks as if he suddenly slammed into a wall.

Yeah, he's done.

 

As disgusted as I was with the Bills today, I was very, very impressed with the Saints. Best looking team I've seen all year by far.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

The second half of the season is officially upon us and we start it with a home game with extra rest.  We got healthy in some key positions and added a true number one receiver.   If the Bills were to prove they aren't the same old Bills who blow a 5-2 season start, this was where it began.  

 

1 - Rush Defense - I start here because it's all that really needs to be known about the game.  The Saints completed a 10 play drive for 93 yards where they didn't throw a single pass.  It was capped with a Brees rushing TD.  Yes, a Drew Brees 7 yard rushing touchdown.  On that drive, Kamara fell down just beyond the line of scrimmage, had time to get back up, and rush for three more yards.  That's how bad our once great rush defense was.  We were absolutely gashed on the ground as well as multiple 3rd and long plays where a simple pitch got the first.  This might have been the most brutal rush defense I can remember in years, and that includes the Ajayi games last year.

 

2 - Tackling - For a team that was praised for it's fundamentals in the first few weeks, the wheels have completely fallen off the past few weeks.  If you saw the Jets game and all of those broken tackles, you saw more of the same and a little more this week.  Multiple, and I mean multiple drives could have been stopped with better tackling but we just couldn't get it done.  I'm talking Hyde, Lorax, Humber; everyone came to the party.  As the game went on and it was clear our offense wasn't going to do anything, you could see them giving up and it showed in the tackling effort.

 

3 - Defensive Penalties - If you didn't know any better, you would think we were playing in New Orleans.  We jumped offsides on 3rd and short twice to give up first downs and were right back to extending early drives with ridiculous judgement lapse penalties.  Again, another area of pride in the early season is now showing signs of previous regimes and falling apart.

 

4 - You say you cannot live with me, you need your own identity
And now we air our laundry on national TV
And so you hate my arrogance, my smothering and sitting on the fence,
But I'm afraid of the hard permanence of letting you go free

 

5 - Pass Rush - I hate to harp on the same things week after week, but this is my number one issue with McDermott and our defense.  We just refuse to send more that 4-5 guys at any time.  When we send 5, there are no stunts or masking rushers.  When we send 4, there's little to no result.  There were a few 3rd and long plays were the coverage was good downfield, but Brees just had all day to throw.  It got to the point where even the announcers didn't know what to say about it.  It's the definition of insanity out there and we have Rivers, Brady x2, and Smith coming up.  It's going to get worse before it gets better.  

 

6 - Special Teams - I can't understand why we kept punting to Ginn, and we punted A LOT.  No, he didn't break one, but his returns were good.  We didn't try to pin him in a corner or contain him at all.  We even outpunted our coverage a few times.  Just made no sense.  Also, the Saints didn't punt one time.  That's right.  THE SAINTS DID NOT PUNT THE BALL!

 

7 - Offensive Play Calling - I'm not dumping our offense just on Dennison.  He gets a fair share of the blame though.  Outside of the first drive, our offense might have been the worst I've seen it in the past few years.  We ran a toss option to Tolbert.  That's right, Tolbert.  Announcers kept calling out how receivers were running the same routes downfield and couldn't get open.  Dennison isn't on the field to make the reads, but he also isn't creating a gameplan that fits TT's strengths.  In a game where Clay is back and Benjamin is out there, 3 points is inexcusable.  

 

8 - Tyrod - While I put half of this on Dennison, TT owns the rest.  If he's on point, we score a touchdown on the first drive.  He missed Kelvin twice, once for a TD.  After that drive, there's nothing to even write about.  His protection was pretty good all day.  The running game was there if needed.  He had all his weapons.  And we were playing the Saints.  At that point, you can't just point to playcalling or receivers getting open, the QB owns it too.  After 2.5 years and with this surrounding cast, it's just time to call it as I see it.  Nothing personal, but it's Peterman time.

 

9 - The Process - If this is what we get for trusting the process, I'm concerned or the fans and the players.  You could see the defense start to give up at the beginning of the second half and it's understandable knowing the offense wasn't going to do anything.  We knew it could be a rough year with the players we lost and the salary dump, and our schedule, but we were 5-2.  I've questioned what would happen when we hit a rough patch, and now we will see.  This team looks as much like last years Rex team as anything else.  We will now see what the process brings out.

 

10 - McDermott - There was a thread comparing McDermott to Chip Kelly.  I thought it was absurd at the time, but I'm starting to wonder a bit.  Not because of the playcalling philosophy, but because of the "my way or the highway" mentality.  The players on the field are the ones McDermott wants.  Dareus, Sammy, Woods, were not good fits.  Tolbert is his 2nd rb, Ducasse is his starting guard while Miller is a healthy scratch.  I believe a Head Coach is supposed to find ways to motivate his players, give them a goal, and also find a system that maximizes their talents.  McDermott only seems to want people who will do what he wants and shares his vision, talented or not.  We are seeing the results of that now.  Hopefully, with cap space and draft picks, he will get all those guys.  If not, this could be year 1 of 3 before another rebuild.  

 

*Side Note  - I'm not the ethical standard of posters and don't want to pretend to be.  But we have so many threads calling us a playoff team after 5 wins and so many other posters who can't wait to say I told you so.  Can we please acknowledge that we all want the same goal and this hurts us all equally?  The pessimists remember the previous two 5-2 starts and the optimists saw the flashes of hope and ran with it.  Neither are wrong for their opinions.  No one wins when the other is right.  That's all I got.

 

Two rough weeks in a row and some quality QB's coming up.  Let's remember what this season was supposed to be and keep watching some of these guys develop.  

 

Go Bills!

 

....GRAND SLAM assessment as usual Virgil......very painful............