Bob Costas says CTE will destroy the NFL

[BigDingus]

38 minutes ago, jimmy10 said:

 

I hope so. A boxing match looks like an athletic contest. A UFC fight looks like a felony is being committed. 

 

But I’ve always thought that boxing declined because of corruption and mismanagement, and the fact that there were multiple federations which made who was champion of what very confusing. 

 

I hope the NFL does not die, but in the back of my mind I wonder if it will if there isn't a major advance in player safety or neuroscience. 

The thing is boxing (and similarly the NFL) are both more detrimental & injury prone than MMA/UFC regardless of how it looks. 

I feel like it should be stated again, but CTE isn't predominantly caused by concussions, rather it's caused by REPEATED smaller blows to the head that consistently rock the brain back & forth into impacting the skull. This builds up damage over time and is HIGHLY dangerous. CTE is more widely found and more severity in players like linemen, who every single play collide. Do they get concussions when they hit? No. But lining up 1 v 1 with the guy across from you, slamming helmets into each other causes the brain to impact the skull time & time again throughout the entire game. 

Just like boxing, where you eat hundreds of jabs and smaller shots, some flush to the face & some not, round after round after round. Your brain doesn't have a cushion for these impacts, so it constantly collides with the skull creating so so much damage. Also, in boxing if a person gets knocked down, they are then given 10 seconds to get back up & rejoin the fight. If you took punishment to the brain that causes you to lose your faculties and fall on your ***, see double vision & stars, and walk around in haze, your brain has already suffered tremendously. Allowing boxers to then stand back up, and take further punishment exponentially destroys the brain. The fact they're allowed to do this several times in a match just makes it all that much more dangerous. Your bruised brain is just getting smashed left & right AFTER already suffering massive damage. 

And that's why MMA is usually safer from a long term perspective on your health. If you get knocked out, the ref jumps in to block off further punishment. If you just get knocked down and aren't defending yourself, the ref jumps in. And although some fights drag out, most fighters are far more careful when throwing punches due to smaller gloves. There are only three, 5 minute rounds (or in championship matches, five rounds), and although they throw FAAAAR less strikes than an average boxing round which is only 3 minutes. 

So they throw far fewer strikes, land far less strikes, even though their rounds are almost twice as long. Coupled with that, you have only a few rounds as opposed to 12 in boxing. Finally, as we all know, boxing is ONLY punching, and only from the waist up. So the target for these strikes is the head or body 100% of the time, with most fighters targeting the head for the majority of their strikes. In MMA, strikes include kicks to the opponent's legs, which makes up a large portion of the shots taken, while many fights focus on grappling, submissions and wrestling. When you're submitted via arm bar, rear naked choke, kimura, etc. you aren't risking severe brain trauma. When an entire match has only 50 strikes landed, 2/3 being kicks to the legs & body, you again minimize potential brain injury. In a flash knockout (like Conor McGregor vs Jose Aldo), you aren't letting the combatant take 200-300 shots to the head over 36 minutes. When someone's eyes roll back in their head and are no longer defending themselves, the ref doesn't sit there and let the fighter regain composure, situate themselves, then throw them back into the fight to take further brain punishment.

So even though that's a lot, it's smart to remember the majority of damage from CTE is caused by smaller, repeated impact to the head, not just concussions.

[Lurker]

18 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

What about boxing, mma, hockey. 

 

Boxing:  http://www.boxingscene.com/dibella-ratings-real-reason-hbo-airing-less-boxing-2017--115243

 

MMA:  https://www.google.com/search?q=mma+ratings+down&rlz=1CAACAG_enUS765US765&oq=mma+rating&aqs=chrome.4.0j69i57j0l4.9523j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Hockey:  https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAACAG_enUS765US765&ei=1WEHWsCxCsaMmQHDsLq4AQ&q=nhl+ratings+down&oq=nhl+ratings+down&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i7i30k1l2j0i5i30k1.62348.64627.0.65097.6.6.0.0.0.0.105.573.5j1.6.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.571...0i67k1j0i7i5i30k1.0.PMWfXdFM5Gg

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Football is the greatest, most complete sport ever created. I think there will be a thriving audience for it long after we're all gone. Basketball and baseball are broken games that can't adapt to the strength and size of the competitors, yet football is able to continuously evolve even as the people that play it change.

What might not be there are the legions of new "fans" that have come around in the last few years. The NFL was able to pull in a tremendous amount of super-casuals over the last decade, and that will probably go away over time and we'll revert to 90's audience levels. 

 

Keep this in mind, football had a thriving role in American sport in the 50's and 60's when players had to have second jobs to pay their bills. There wasn't any real money in the game, they didn't have 16 games a week and it still thrived. I've seen a number of yuppies from my generation saying how they won't let their kids play football, and I say all the better. Get the pampered kids out of the sport who are groomed to make 20 million dollars a year, and maybe the NFL will revert back to the pinnacle of the game from the late nineties.

 

Agree it is among the greatest of sports and yes viewership is down so what we might see is a continued slow decline in the sport both in viewership and participation.  Our local high school (a very large school) had over 100 freshmen each year sign up to play.  Some years there were 3 freshman teams.  Varsity rosters were near 100 players.  This past season under 50 freshman players signed up while the track team and others are growing.  Our local town football league folded a couple years ago due to lack of participation.  That league had 40+ teams among the various age groups back when my sons were playing plus some travel teams.

 

Helmet technology has lagged in development for years but some good advancements have been made in recent years in terms of reducing weight of helmets and increasing protection.  As another poster pointed out though, stopping the brain from impacting the skull may be impossible. 

 

In Illinois a class action suit was filed against the state high school football association for head injuries.  The case was thrown out but I wouldn't be surprised if other cases around the country are filed. 

 

Football has a lot of work to do IMO to get through the headwinds of safety concerns.  

Edited November 11, 2017 by keepthefaith

[Mr. WEO]

As for Costas, I don't recall him bringing up the scrambling of players brains when he annually fawns over and eloquently rhapsodizes the game in his annual Super Bowl broadcasts...

 

And the main problem for those who view CTE as the main demise in the future for football is that it is obvious that the vast majority of players (and certainly the "many players" Costas personally knows) have not and do not suffer neurologic effects of CTE.

 

Americans love watching sports on TV.  They have shown that they not interested in watching the NHL, that they watch the NBA and MLB occasionally and at playoff time.  So, despite the recent dip in numbers of viewers, the NFL is overwhelmingly the favorite choice of pro sports viewing in this country.  I don't see what will supplant it.

[Pbomb]

43 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Boxing:  http://www.boxingscene.com/dibella-ratings-real-reason-hbo-airing-less-boxing-2017--115243

 

MMA:  https://www.google.com/search?q=mma+ratings+down&rlz=1CAACAG_enUS765US765&oq=mma+rating&aqs=chrome.4.0j69i57j0l4.9523j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Hockey:  https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAACAG_enUS765US765&ei=1WEHWsCxCsaMmQHDsLq4AQ&q=nhl+ratings+down&oq=nhl+ratings+down&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i7i30k1l2j0i5i30k1.62348.64627.0.65097.6.6.0.0.0.0.105.573.5j1.6.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.571...0i67k1j0i7i5i30k1.0.PMWfXdFM5Gg

Ok, baseball and basketball ratings dropped too. Has nothing to do with cte. More with the internet, streaming, etc

[Mr. WEO]

The NBA ratings are down because, at the beginning of the season, 90% of the teams have no chance to reach the finals.

 

That and there are about 12-15 legit stars in the entire league...maybe.

[KD in CA]

Yeah, you'll see football disappear in certain communities in the US but I'm pretty sure there will never be a lack of guys willing to risk potential long term health benefits in exchange for millions of dollars.

 

 

IMO, boxing declined due to a combination of factors.   Boxing had an incredible parade of talent from the 60s through the early 90s which eventually dried up.  Most people would have trouble naming a heavyweight champion since Tyson.  This coincided with added safety rules limiting the length of fights, which turned off a lot of people.  And of course, it lost the younger audience to MMA.  But that's like major networks losing audience to cable, it doesn't mean fewer people are watching TV.

Edited November 11, 2017 by KD in CA

[vincec]

I don't think it will destroy professional football because people like violence, even when it maims other people. Just look at combat sports. But I do think it will dramatically affect the popularity as fewer and fewer kids participate in the sport.

[KD in CA]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

They need to start with ending this Thursday night injury bonanza. 

 

I know this is the popular wisdom lately, but are there any stats about injury rates based on # days since the prior game?

[Foxx]

does Costas have CTE?

[row_33]

Then Bob flapped his wings and sanctimoniously flew up to heaven.

 

[Heavy Kevi]

3 hours ago, Steptide said:

 

Boxing died due to ufc, which is WAY more violent than boxing itself. As long as the NFL is a huge cash cow, it will never go away. While CTE will probably always be a part of football, technology is always improving and helmets and treatment can always get better without destroying the NFL product 

 

MMA is much, much safer than Boxing. A knockdown in Boxing, where the fighter will continue to take hits, is usually a kO in MMA. Fighters in MMA take alot less famage, can have longer careers, amd a much rexuced CTE danger.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, row_33 said:

Then Bob flapped his wings and sanctimoniously flew up to heaven.

 

 

 

...on the way, he made a right turn and stopped in at the Olympics to sink their ratings.............

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Shotgunner said:

 

MMA is much, much safer than Boxing. A knockdown in Boxing, where the fighter will continue to take hits, is usually a kO in MMA. Fighters in MMA take alot less famage, can have longer careers, amd a much rexuced CTE danger.

 

I was gonna say the same.

 

Boxers are much more likely to die in the ring or shortly after due to brain damage

 

standing 8 counts and the long count make boxers take much more punishment than a knockdown and finish in MMA

 

MMA has more superficial wounds because the gloves tend to open more cuts 

 

but boxers get absolutely punished in 10-12 round fights 

[row_33]

High def isn’t becoming to his cloudy googly eyes

[ohboychoboy]

Turn on the TV today.  Take a look at Auburn - Georgia.  Notre Dame - Miami.   TCU - Oklahoma.  Ohio St. - Michigan St.  And countless more.   Look at the stadiums, where its commonplace to see 100,000 people in the stands.  Hundreds of years of tradition.  Does Bob Costas or anyone else envision that ending soon?  Does anybody see a day where Notre Dame only has 15 or 20 guys trying out so they have to combine with Purdue and Indiana to have enough players to field a team?  I didn't think so.

 

As long as there's college football, there will always be an NFL.

[Lv-Bills]

Not sure how this will effect the NFL.  College.  Or even high school yet, but.......

 

I'm a Recreation Director in a County in Virginia.  Our athletics department runs youth Athletics for county residents.  Our county also has one of the best, if not the best, high school programs in the state.  The program is top notch and wins big every year.  Virginia is also one of the top 10 talent rich states for football players in the country.  Usually sits right around 6 or 7.

 

That being said, there is an undeniable drop in football numbers in youth football, not only in our county, but all across the state.  In our league alone, around the Richmond area, the league has dropped from 32 teams to 22 in the last 5 years.  Some entire county's in the league can't even field a team in an age division anymore.  This is really started in the last five years.  And I'm not talking about this being an inner city league.  As a matter of fact, it's so bad, the numbers all across the state are alarmingly bad and the trend is continuing to get worse.

 

Here's a case in point.  Swimming vs Football.  In a suburban county just outside of Richmond, there are 3 football associations in the same area that has 6 swimming associations.  5 years ago, there were about 700 kids swimming, and about 550 playing football.  Today, there are 2,200 swimming and 325 left playing football.  Granted, swimming is coed, but that's a huge difference in the exact same area.

 

It's alarming.  Football is by far the country's most favorite sport.  However, it is seeing a severe reduction in the number of little kids playing.  Sooner or later, that will catch up to the upper leagues.  

 

I study these numbers for a living.  Football is the only youth sport that is falling so incredibly fast.

[DrPJax]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

Things change.   The twenty-somethings I know would never tie up their Sunday's by gluing themselves to TV.   That's old fashioned.   They're much more into doing/experiencing things and or interacting with other people on their free time.   Being a spectator is what the old folks do.

 

And after the crappy NFL Europe games we've seen, it's not likely the NFL brand of 'entertainment' will supplant soccer on a global stage...

I respectfully disagree. I don’t know what 20 year olds you are hanging around that are “ doing / experiencing things “and don’t like being spectators. ( if your children are like that I commend you as a wonderful parent truthfully) How do you explain the multimillion /billon dollar video game industry.  People are making a living in their 20’a playing video games on places like Twitch tv with millions of viewers  and thousands of subscribers sitting for hours playing or watching others play.  Why are we seeing e sports being broadcast on tv?  If anything this generation is less personally engaged and they will be spectators as they continue posting on Instagram etc even while at games. Do you see college football which is also huge money and funds large universities athletic programs just disappearing.?  Not in our lifetime. 

 

 As a doctor who has done literally thousands of pre-participation physicals , I can factually tell you every year there are several parents who get angry and will even go to another clinic if I fail someone who needs further evaluation for possible life threatening conditions if they play. And I am just ONE  dr who goes thru this every year. I do believe education and income levels come into play, as mentioned previously because of the POTENTIAL of a scholarship or more. There will always be parents and their children who will disregard any medical information even at the high school level where no money is involved who will do anything to play or get their children involved for social and fiancial reasons.  I have seen it consistently. I have told parents your child could be at risk for sudden DEATH without further evaluation or they have something that does instantly disqualify them, and those parents become irate and many times try to work around the PROVEN MEDICAL RISKS!   If they will disregard the risk of SUDDEN DEATH, why would anyone believe the far down the road risks of CTE would dissuade them?  

 

I personally believe contact / tackle football should not be available below the age high school.  Just like rules changed in little league baseball to limit how often a child can pitch because of risks associated at the elbow , some changes are necessary to protect children from parents who will ignore proven science.  I’ll give you one other analogy why football won’t disappear tho. I went into medicine knowing there are risks asssociated with the lifestyle , eg long hours ,stress, high divorce rate, exposure to body fluids that are potentially lethal. I did it because I loved the science of it and I loved being able to help families at periods of crisis, and I also hoped to make a decent living given the sacrifices the profession demands. I don’t make millions of dollars as a family practice / er doc.   Some people just do something because they love it and if you add the potential life changing money, there is no way the sport fades because of lack of interest by younger people.  I don’t see them as more active either. Why do we have a national epidemic of childhood and youth obesity and diabetes occurring now at ages I never saw when I finished my residency in 85.   The medical facts and literature don’t support your premise of young people being more active.   Quite the opposite. I’m not trying to be argumentative or be an A## to you. Just posting 30 years of experience.  Go bills.  

[row_33]

Thanks Doc, interesting perspective.

 

 

[dulles]

4 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

thursday night games are destroying the nfl

 

 

 

cte is a serious repercussion from a sport that is violent. it will and has destroyed some lives but I doubt it'll be the straw that broke the camels back?

I think the TNF issue is bigger than CTE for viewership.  People watch destructive and degrading content all the time...it just needs to be "quality" content.  TNF has failed to move the needle in the quality department and so the "health" question becomes more pertinent.