Derek Carr Got Hurt Over Anthem Protests

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Completely disagree. Growing up in the south side of Chicago is basically the same as growing up in Beverly Hills or Amherst. You either make it or you don’t.

 

and I have the right to judge others because I chose to be born in America and not 3rd world country. I told my mom when she was pregnant I better be born in a nice neighborhood in the US or else. Now, I am free to judge those immigrants or poor people. I’m a patriot!

 

You forgot one word in your second overly virtue-signaling paragraph. "illegal."

 

And again, there's an entire segment of the population in this country that's ignored in this whole "debate." Poor whites. There are more poor white people in this country than there are black people of all social strata.

 

You know them, right? The Deplorables? The Bitter Clingers?

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by joesixpack

[The Now Moment]

7 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

You forgot one word in your second overly virtue-signaling paragraph. "illegal."

 

And again, there's an entire segment of the population in this country that's ignored in this whole "debate." Poor whites. There are more poor white people in this country than there are black people of all social strata.

 

You know them, right? The Deplorables? The Bitter Clingers?

 

Thing is, they weren't slaves...so there is a reason they are left out.  I'm sure they were set back by events but not by another race enslaving them.  That has set back the Black population as a whole.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

Thing is, they weren't slaves...so there is a reason they are left out.  I'm sure they were set back by events but not by another race enslaving them.  That has set back the Black population as a whole.  

Slavery ended in the 1860s.

 

Literally no one is alive who remembers it. When's the statute of limitations expire on that as an excuse?

 

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

You forgot one word in your second overly virtue-signaling paragraph. "illegal."

 

And again, there's an entire segment of the population in this country that's ignored in this whole "debate." Poor whites. There are more poor white people in this country than there are black people of all social strata.

 

You know them, right? The Deplorables? The Bitter Clingers?

 

I definitely agree with you on poor whites.  While I believe it is “easier” to be white in this country, there are some awfully neglect poor white people in this country.  I also believe that like the OJ trial, people mix up race and economic status far too often.  Trump would rather associate with a guy like Michael Jordan than one of his “deplorables.”  And while I don’t fully agree with everything the nfl players are protesting, the majority have money and the easiest thing to do is ignore the problems of poorer citizens like guys like Jordan and OJ did.  So I always respect those who stand for others when they really have nothing to gain. Even if the protest isn’t perfect.

 

and side note.  I find it hilarious that there are poor people who honestly believe Don, who was handed millions of dollars and values wealth more than anything, really gives 2 craps about them.  But I salute him on conning them. 

 

And go Bills!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

 

and side note.  I find it hilarious that there are poor people who honestly believe Don, who was handed millions of dollars and values wealth more than anything, really gives 2 craps about them.  But I salute him on conning them. 

 

And go Bills!

 

It was no bigger con than believing a wellsley-educated child of privilege gave a crap about them, either.

 

Go Bills indeed

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

2 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

To those pointing at the crime rate of black youths...honestly what do you expect?  Kids growing up in city slums with parental issues, violence all around them and no money to put food on the table and that's assuming they have a house.  They sell drugs just to eat a sandwich and take them to deal with the constant shootings that are around them.  How do you expect black youths to overcome that, that's all they know?  Most don't, most turn into the same thing and the cycle continues.  It's not their faults that they were slaves and treated like scum for so long and now we expect them to be just like the privileged white man.  As if all of those years of being treated horribly didn't have an effect on how they live today.  Maybe if we helped some of these kids out and educated them and steered them in the right direction this whole NFL protest thing wouldn't even exist.  Unfortunately, too many people are too focused on their own world to see what's been happening in someone else's.  There's always a cause for every effect.   

This is shifting the goal posts.

 

First the conversation was complaints about how black Americans are the subject of a disproportionate amount of policing, but once crime data was injected to explain the disproportionate amount of policing, it became about excusing the disproportionate amount crime black Americans commit because of slavery.

 

That's a bull **** argument built on the soft-racism of low expectations and fallacious reasoning.

 

Some of what black Americans deal with today is certainly a result of the legacy of slavery; but largely black Americans suffer due to cultural problems in their communities, almost all of which are tied directly to the destruction of the black family, which was a direct result of Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty which marginalized the importance of the role of the black man in the household, and provided a monetary incentive to replace his paycheck.  This led to generations of black boys with no male role models to guide them, and has culminated in a stunning nearly 75% of all black children being born out of wedlock, which happens to be the leading indicator of inter-generational poverty.

 

This is hugely problematic for several reasons: 1)  handouts can't solve a problem already exacerbated by handouts, 2) handouts don't lead to wealth creation, but rather towards more handouts as a direct replacement for accumulated wealth and don't work to solve the long term problem, 3) it is neither moral nor productive to punish people who did not create the problem for the existence of the problem, 4) there is no "white privilege" there is monetary privilege, 5) public education cannot replace a steady and secure home life and caring parents, and doesn't work to serve a community whose culture doesn't place a premium on education (only roughly 60% of all black males graduate from high school).

 

The truth is, that this isn't a problem white people can solve for black people.  This isn't even a problem that black people can solve for black people. 

 

It's a problem that individuals, black or white or yellow, or brown, need to solve for themselves.  Individuals need to make the responsible life choices necessary to break the cycle of poverty, and that's not asking too much. 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

Slavery ended in the 1860s.

 

Literally no one is alive who remembers it. When's the statute of limitations expire on that as an excuse?

 

But there are lasting effects from it.  But there's no point in expanding the argument on this board.

[Augie]

9 hours ago, Rico said:

Maybe they believed in EJ more than Carr. 

 

Now THAT is mental! 

[TakeYouToTasker]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

But there are lasting effects from it.  But there's no point in expanding the argument on this board.

There are legacy effects, but not immediate impacts, and they do not account for the overwhelming majority of todays struggles.

[boyst]

2 hours ago, unbillievable said:

 

 

1 is suicide

2 is murder

3 is a mass shooting.

 

I never understood why #1 is included into the "gun violence" statistics... I guess you can do violence to yourself.

What about if it's one person during Mass?  

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

This is shifting the goal posts.

 

First the conversation was complaints about how black Americans are the subject of a disproportionate amount of policing, but once crime data was injected to explain the disproportionate amount of policing, it became about excusing the disproportionate amount crime black Americans commit because of slavery.

 

That's a bull **** argument built on the soft-racism of low expectations and fallacious reasoning.

 

Some of what black Americans deal with today is certainly a result of the legacy of slavery; but largely black Americans suffer due to cultural problems in their communities, almost all of which are tied directly to the destruction of the black family, which was a direct result of Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty which marginalized the importance of the role of the black man in the household, and provided a monetary incentive to replace his paycheck.  This led to generations of black boys with no male role models to guide them, and has culminated in a stunning nearly 75% of all black children being born out of wedlock, which happens to be the leading indicator of inter-generational poverty.

 

This is hugely problematic for several reasons: 1)  handouts can't solve a problem already exacerbated by handouts, 2) handouts don't lead to wealth creation, but rather towards more handouts as a direct replacement for accumulated wealth and don't work to solve the long term problem, 3) it is neither moral nor productive to punish people who did not create the problem for the existence of the problem, 4) there is no "white privilege" there is monetary privilege, 5) public education cannot replace a steady and secure home life and caring parents, and doesn't work to serve a community whose culture doesn't place a premium on education (nearly 60% of all black males drop out before graduating high school).

 

The truth is, that this isn't a problem white people can solve for black people.  This isn't even a problem that black people can solve for black people. 

 

It's a problem that individuals, black or white or yellow, or brown, need to solve for themselves.  Individuals need to make the responsible life choices necessary to break the cycle of poverty, and that's not asking too much. 

 

 

Where did you get your dropout statistics?  The ones I found report: Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 percent; whites graduated at a rate of 86 percent.

 

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-high-school-graduation-rates-by-race-ethnicity.html

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

first glance at the thread title I thought Carrs feelings were hurt...

[Heitz]

29 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

first glance at the thread title I thought Carrs feelings were hurt...

 

Turns out EVERYONE'S feelings are hurt...

[TakeYouToTasker]

25 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Where did you get your dropout statistics?  The ones I found report: Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 percent; whites graduated at a rate of 86 percent.

 

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-high-school-graduation-rates-by-race-ethnicity.html

 

The same study as you, though I misstated the findings.  I meant to type that "only roughly 60% of black males graduate from high school (59%)", not "60% drop out of high school".  That was my error.  Thank you for pointing it out so I could correct it.

 

 

 

 

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

The same study as you, though I misstated the findings.  I meant to type that "only roughly 60% of black males graduate from high school (59%)", not "60% drop out of high school".  That was my error.  Thank you for pointing it out so I could correct it.

 

 

 

 

 

Understandable.  No Worries.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

16 minutes ago, Heitz said:

 

Turns out EVERYONE'S feelings are hurt...

 

[DC Tom]

12 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

"The wife of Tampa Bay Buccaneers cornerback Brent Grimes claimed Tuesday morning the Oakland Raiders offensive line allowed Derek Carr to get hurt because he did not join the anthem protests.

 

“A lot of people don’t know, but the reason Derek Carr got injured was because the Raiders offensive line allowed him to get injured,” 

 

http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/07/wife-of-nfl-player-claims-raiders-let-derek-carr-get-hurt-over-anthem-protests/

 

That theory is belied by the complete lack of coordination by the line on that play.  They don't look like they're making a coherent effort at anything, much less getting their QB injured.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Shes pretty typical of that whole movement, I think.

 

As if

 

11 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Right, the line wants to lose their starting QB and potentially tank their season b/c he prays during the anthem.  Give me a break.  Grimes needs to put a muzzle on his wife.  This isn't the first time she's made controversial totally dumbass comments.

 

FIFY

8 hours ago, kdiggz said:

is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that Miko Grimes probably beats her husband?  he just stands there and takes her crap and doesn't say anything back.  i think he's scared of her

 

Someone here a while back posted what seemed like a plausible analysis

 

She's batshit crazy and fulfills his wettest dreams in the sack.  Refers to herself as "Brent Grimes bottom B word".  Buys him ego-inflating (actually that wasn't the part inflated, but...) cakes.  Basically he fails to call her out when she acts like a chicken, because he wants the eggs.

[SoTier]

4 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

That's not how data works.

 

You need to look at crime data.  For example, a 2008 report on juvenile crimes released by the FBI informs us that black youths accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58% for homicide and 67% for robbery despite making up only 16% of the juvenile population.

 

This isn't because blacks are biologically predisposed to crime, but because crime is a socio-economic issue rather than a race issue, and black Americans are more likely to be poor, which is due in part to the legacy of slavery, but in larger part to the perverse incentives of the welfare state, originally targeted at blacks under the Johnson Administration, which served to decimate the black family.

 

The unfortunate reality we are left with is that blacks commit an absurdly disproportionate amount of crime, and therefor expose themselves to a disproportionate amount of policing, given the nature of policing being most necessary in high crime areas.  So, while there may be inequality in the raw data when you look at it on it's face, it does not demonstrate inequity.

 

I'm familiar with crime data and its virtual lock-step link to socioeconomic factors.  I wasn't arguing about the validity of the figures or why they are the way they are but rather about using them to "prove" that those stats justify holding racist opinions. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

39 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

That theory is belied by the complete lack of coordination by the line on that play.  They don't look like they're making a coherent effort at anything, much less getting their QB injured.

 

"Never attribute to malice, that which can be adequately explained by incompetence" - me

 

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

Slavery ended in the 1860s.

 

Literally no one is alive who remembers it. When's the statute of limitations expire on that as an excuse?

 

 

When did lynching end?
When did debt peonage end?  Has it ended?  (do you know what debt peonage is?)

When was the Federal Government segregated?  When was it desegregated?