Lurker Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 11 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said: A better WR group to me is Benjamin on the outside, Zay in the slot and speed WR on the outside opposite Benjamin. Agreed. The next eight games are Matthews's audition for whether he stays or goes. As a Panther alum, Benjamin has to have the leg up in the competition. Given the way McBeane does not like to lock up big $$$ in any one position group, Jordan will have play like his hair's on fire if he's going to have any chance of remaining a Bill....
CLTbills Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 8 hours ago, bigK14094 said: KB is only "locked up" if the Bills choose to pay him $8mil next year. I don't think that decision is made yet........I am guessing that B and MCD , however, won't pass on their "Carolina connection" guy. (unfortunately just like Rex had a thing about former Jets on the team..any of those guys still around?) Carolina already picked up the option for '18. He'll be a Bill next year.
TheFunPolice Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 Benjamin will be here next year. Beane talked about having him for 2018 being a major reason he made the trade. Matthews is interesting. I would say that you ought to keep him. Let's actually build a bit here, instead of letting a WR go then drafting a WR. You're only treading water then. Matthews, Jones and Benjamin with a rookie speed guy would be a nice WR lineup.
Kelly the Dog Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, CLTbills said: Carolina already picked up the option for '18. He'll be a Bill next year. Not necessarily true. The picked it up but it's only guaranteed against injury. The Bills can cut him and not owe anything. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article148072339.html
Shaw66 Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Lurker said: Agreed. The next eight games are Matthews's audition for whether he stays or goes. As a Panther alum, Benjamin has to have the leg up in the competition. Given the way McBeane does not like to lock up big $$$ in any one position group, Jordan will have play like his hair's on fire if he's going to have any chance of remaining a Bill.... I think it's an audition in a broad sense. The coaches are going to be looking at the offense with the two of them on the field, and with Tyrod throwing. Beane and McD will have to decide whether that's the core passing personnel they want going forward. If they think they're going to replace Tyrod with a rookie or other inexperienced QB, they may very well want to keep both receivers, because they are excellent security blankets for a young guy - good route runners, dependable, etc. If they want to keep Tyrod, then they have to decide whether they think they can compete in the NFL without a serious deep threat in the passing lineup. Maybe they think it's good enough to have the speed guy be the number 3 man, and the number 4. Since neither Benjamin nor Matthews is a premier number 1 guy, they probably won't need to pay franchise type money to either to keep them. Mid to high number 1 money and high number 2 money may not be too much to spend on the position.
TheFunPolice Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 The Bills are not cutting him. Beane came right out and said they would probably not have made the trade if he wasn't under contract for 2018.
CLTbills Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: Not necessarily true. The picked it up but it's only guaranteed against injury. The Bills can cut him and not owe anything. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article148072339.html Hm. Interesting. I hadn't seen that. However, He'll still be a Bill. No way McDermott and Beane gave up a 3rd rounder for an eight-game rental.
Lurker Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Since neither Benjamin nor Matthews is a premier number 1 guy, they probably won't need to pay franchise type money to either to keep them. Mid to high number 1 money and high number 2 money may not be too much to spend on the position. Based on the $$$ Robert Woods got to be a number 2 in LA, that's still more than I can see this FO wanting to spend at the WR position. And Matthews' agent will surely point to that contract as a starting point for his client, given JM's greater career production than Woods. But your point about who the QB is is a good one. If TT's off the roster, a rookie QB salary might help subsidize the #2 WR, whoever that is (I'm not sold on Matthews being that guy yet)...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Not necessarily true. The picked it up but it's only guaranteed against injury. The Bills can cut him and not owe anything. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article148072339.html ....correct....good find bud.........
Kelly the Dog Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, CLTbills said: Hm. Interesting. I hadn't seen that. However, He'll still be a Bill. No way McDermott and Beane gave up a 3rd rounder for an eight-game rental. Agreed. They keep him.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Agreed. They keep him. ....agree....see how it plays out....if Matthews, Benjamin, Zay and perhaps even Homes are your corp that are in snyc with TT down the stretch, find a way......of course the detractors will say TT won't be here next year so it doesn't matter, but nobody knows that for sure......everything rides on the final 8 games(hopefully MORE).....2018 could have TT, Peterman, 1st round draftee and a camp body, or the usual number going into the minis, OTA's, TC, etc............. Edited November 8, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
Shaw66 Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, Lurker said: Based on the $$$ Robert Woods got to be a number 2 in LA, that's still more than I can see this FO wanting to spend at the WR position. And Matthews' agent will surely point to that contract as a starting point for his client, given JM's greater career production than Woods. But your point about who the QB is is a good one. If TT's off the roster, a rookie QB salary might help subsidize the #2 WR, whoever that is (I'm not sold on Matthews being that guy yet)... There's defenitely a lot of planning that goes into decisions like this. One other thing: I'm starting to think that deep speed is overrated. Now, if you have a Tyreek Hill, that's different, because he's a threat all over the field. But there's only one of him. If you think about it, it's much important to be able to stop the other team from hurting you with deep speed than having it yourself. Someone will say year, but deep speed makes you commit a safety to the guy. I"d say that isn't always true - deep speed doesn't always get doubled. All you need is a #3 who can get deep, and he can put the pressure on the defense to keep them honest. Obviously, you'd always rather have a good receiver who's fast than one who's not, but I think you can have a pretty formidable attack with Ben and Matt.
Augie Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 11 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Nope, he’s a guy that I would certainly let walk. He’s a JAG that will be looking for a contract at least in the Robert Woods range. I am not sure he isn’t the 4th best receiver on the roster at the moment. I’d rather pay Deonte Thompson $3M than Matthews $8M. Additionally, I think that they look to extend Benjamin too. In 2018 I think that it is Benjamin, Zay, a rookie, Thompson, Reilly and/or Dupre. What he said. Benjamin is a better version of Matthews. (Though I wonder if Matthews is really 100%, but still...)
Real McClappy Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, MAJBobby said: The point is though there are better options already on this team with Groy and Dawkins. But i know he wont get cut he is Juans boy. But to cut Ducasse, Holmes and Davis Doesnt hurt your playoff chances anymore than Trading Dareus did and you get a much better draft pick for it over what you got from Dareus lol Benjamin is on contract next year for 8M. Matthews is not. So knowing that I doubt very highly doubt the Bills tie 16M into WR position when we currently do not feature the WR. Ooo and you have a Zay as well (starting to come into his own). Then add Clay and Shady Not enough Balls to go around matthews will take his 8-10M contract he will get to another team This is reality. There is no point in paying WR's on this team high $ contracts with our play calling were you average 3-4 targets a game. JMatt will go else where, get paid and play well. Edited November 9, 2017 by Real McCoy
GreggTX Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 18 hours ago, Dkollidas said: Just wondering if people here think they'll re-sign him? Heard this being debated on WGR this morning, so it made me curious. I do admit I wonder whether they'll want to invest money into Matthews and then more into Benjamin in another year. Regarding being able to draft one... yes, we could, but I think right now there are bigger needs than Wide Receiver now that we've gotten Benjamin who I believe is a lower end True #1. Those needs include: G/C-Replace Wood/Incognito as they age. DT-Replace Marcell & possibly Kyle. CB-depth behind White/Gaines QB-Need a long term answer RB- McCoy Replacement/Partner I would add LB as well. Lorenzo is near retirement, Humber's spot needs a big upgrade and P Brown is average on a good day. We also need to do something about the pass rush. I'm pretty sure Kyle will retire after this season. He knows he can't still play at a high level.
Augie Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: This is reality. There is no point in paying WR's on this team high $ contracts with our play calling were you average 3-4 targets a game. JMatt will go else where, get paid and play well. Fair point, but the flip side is you don’t throw a lot without the talent to be successful. I doubt we go above average $$$ invested in the position, regardless. I believe in Zay and he’s cheap for a while. I’d bet they pay Benjamin before Matthews.
Big C Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 Matthews is a fine receiver, but he is no Benjamin, not to mention he hasn't been particularly good this year. Maybe if he comes back cheap we keep him, since he seems to be buying into the culture and all. But Benjamin/Jones/Matthews/Holmes/Thompson is theoretically a strong WR corps.
BullBuchanan Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 Matthews is having the worst season of his career by miles and miles under Taylor. He's slated to end up with 480 yards on 42 catches and 2 TDs. If I were him, there would be zero chance I'd re-sign here. Those are TJ Graham numbers on a team with walk on WRs.
GETTOTHE50 Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 22 hours ago, dma0034 said: I hope so; Benjamin-Mattews-Jones is a decent 1-2-3 punch imo for the next few years. It really takes the focus off drafting a WR early in the draft (really they only need a burner that can take the top off defenses). With the 5 early draft picks next year the Bills should be looking at: QB, O-Line, D-Line, LB, DB. The goal this year should be making the playoffs. The goal in 2 years is to be a contender. Decent? It's top 10 in the league. You gotta resign him imo.
ghostwriter Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) It's really hard to predict when and where to draft players at positions of need. For instance, we need a franchise QB in the worst way but we may have a situation like in Cincinnati where AJ Green goes 1st and Dalton in the 2nd and the same could be said about RB like what happened in Dallas with Zeke and Prescott. There is no way to know how it'll play out but as of now I think QB, RB and WR all need to be upgraded, in that order preferably but stay true to the board. Edit: We need a burner, I don't think Matthews is any good, he didn't do well with Wentz, he won't do well anywhere else. Kelvin Benjamin is our #1 now. Our priority needs to be to add a burner on the outside and put Zay in the slot. Edited November 9, 2017 by NewDayBills
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