Report: Huge Problem Brewing between Irsay and Luck

[Augie]

I’m glad I’m not a Colts fan. I kind of liked them when Polian was there, but as organizations the Colts and the Browns make us look like the Patriots!  

[Figster]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

 

I have not watched a lot of Cousins this year.  I like his leadership qualities, though I had assumed previously he benefitted from system and a nice wr corps.  If he is as good as you fellas surmise, obviously you ought to make a play for him.  Lot of teams looking for qb, though.  Still like Luck and if Irsay was unhinged enough to unload him below market value you'd have to at least inquire.  Taylor has outperformed what I anticipated, but I'd still like to upgrade at the most important position in football.

A Luck in a Bills uni would make my day ,

 

 at the right price...

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

A Luck in a Bills uni would make my day ,

 

 at the right price...

 

 

..naw, he'll go to Cleveland to reunite with Grigson, the man, the myth and GM Legend......who blamed his suckitude on Luck's extension draining his $$ to sign quality players..............

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

How can it mean NOTHING?? Luck will be 29 and you say, "10 years minimum", like it's a guarantee....how could you or anyone possibly know that?? You're exchanging one unknown for another....we shall agree to disagree, but I don't like the risk involved for the Luck trade when I have a more measured and controlled risk in Drafting a QB with any of my picks in the first 2 rounds. 

 

It's more controlled because I know the information I have on him, I know for sure the shoulder is healthy because I'm not Drafting one in the first 2 rounds has been out for the year, I know he is already 7 to 8 years YOUNGER, and I know that no other organization has gotten what 'could' be the best of him during some really prime years, 25-30. I also know, if I'm Drafting a QB in those first 2 rounds and have done interviews with him, his coaches, and watched interviews of his, he will be hungry and motivated in the way I need him to be coming onto the team as the presumed #1 QB. 

 

We disagree, it's cool....but I'm not exchanging damaged goods for a QB who already has seen quite a bit of wear-and-tear on him for a QB who is a terrific prospect and *could* be my solution for the next (by your math) 16-18 years while using my extra Draft picks for other positions, because Luck isn't coming here for anything less than multiple Draft picks AT LEAST one of which would be a 1st and probably it would take two 1sts and maybe more to get it done. In other words: no thanks, i'll trust the process.

 

Because it does mean nothing. Each person is different. And i say 10 year minimum just like others say he is done. 

 

Also there is nothing also saying what it will take to get him. With the Owner publically calling him out it hurts any return they think they can get. Add the INJ lowers value as well. 

 

Who is to say Indy wont take a 2nd to get out of the contract in year they are likely picking high and can take a QB. 

 

So you would not take Andrew Luck for the Late 1st rounf pick that is what you are teling me 

Edited November 8, 2017 by MAJBobby

[Figster]

9 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

..naw, he'll go to Cleveland to reunite with Grigson, the man, the myth and GM Legend......who blamed his suckitude on Luck's extension draining his $$ to sign quality players..............

hate it when that happens............

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, Figster said:

hate it when that happens............

 

 

....how do you think Luck would feel?.....I'd choose lethal injection first.....

[Figster]

6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....how do you think Luck would feel?.....I'd choose lethal injection first.....

not very Lucky...

[mannc]

27 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Because it does mean nothing. Each person is different. And i say 10 year minimum just like others say he is done. 

 

Also there is nothing also saying what it will take to get him. With the Owner publically calling him out it hurts any return they think they can get. Add the INJ lowers value as well. 

 

Who is to say Indy wont take a 2nd to get out of the contract in year they are likely picking high and can take a QB. 

 

So you would not take Andrew Luck for the Late 1st rounf pick that is what you are teling me 

C'mon Bobby.  In a world where AJ McCarron is ostensibly worth a second and a third, the only way Indy would trade Luck for a late first or second is if his shoulder is a mess, in which case he probably won't pass a physical.  Neither you nor I has any idea if Luck's shoulder problem is a temporary setback (like Brees's) or is career ending (like some are speculating).  But to sort of answer your question, I'd much rather sign Kirk Cousins to a lucrative F/A deal than trade a first round pick for Luck, especially with the question marks regarding Luck's health.     

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

You didn't post about TD:INT in the regular season lol. Your bias is showing my dude.

 

TD's also matter a lot, and not a peep about them in the regular season. 

 

But I guess a QB who had a bad game his last playoff game that he only got to because he dragged his team there sucks.

 

What?  First, what am I biased about?  Because I feel Luck is over rated I am some how biased on something?  LMAO.  That makes every person with an opinion on any subject on earth "biased", so that doesn't even make sense.  

 

Second, YOU responded to ME talking about the things I said I feel he is over rated for, which specifically talked about his total turnovers and his poor postseason resume.  Now you are want to deflect those rather than discuss them and focus on the regular season again?  LMAO.  You cant even stay on topic in your ramblings.  

 

Not to mention he has 105 turnovers in 76 career games.  That sucks for a guy people want to claim is "ELITE".  That INCLUDES regular season too.  

 

Call any team and ask them whats more important...regular season performance or post season performance.  HINT:  No one will pick regular season.  Until he can cut down the turnovers, and show he can get the job done in the post season as well, then he will continue to remain over rated in my book.  Not saying he is a bad QB, saying he is over rated by those who value fantasy football more than they do actual winning in the NFL.  Not to mention, actually stay on the field too.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[BringBackOrton]

32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

What?  First, what am I biased about?  Because I feel Luck is over rated I am some how biased on something?  LMAO.  That makes every person with an opinion on any subject on earth "biased", so that doesn't even make sense.  

 

Second, YOU responded to ME talking about the things I said I feel he is over rated for, which specifically talked about his total turnovers and his poor postseason resume.  Now you are want to deflect those rather than discuss them and focus on the regular season again?  LMAO.  You cant even stay on topic in your ramblings.  

 

Not to mention he has 105 turnovers in 76 career games.  That sucks for a guy people want to claim is "ELITE".  That INCLUDES regular season too.  

 

Call any team and ask them whats more important...regular season performance or post season performance.  HINT:  No one will pick regular season.  Until he can cut down the turnovers, and show he can get the job done in the post season as well, then he will continue to remain over rated in my book.  Not saying he is a bad QB, saying he is over rated by those who value fantasy football more than they do actual winning in the NFL.  Not to mention, actually stay on the field too.

 

 

If Luck was healthy tomorrow, he'd be a top 12 QB in the NFL easily, right?

[ndirish1978]

Always felt like this guy was more sizzle than steak. 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

Always felt like this guy was more sizzle than steak. 

 

That’s fair, but I think he sizzled 11 wins out of 4 win teams. To each their own. I hope he gets healthy regardless. 

 

(I also hope Irsay gets a buzz on and trades him to us for peanuts.) 

[Alphadawg7]

26 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

If Luck was healthy tomorrow, he'd be a top 12 QB in the NFL easily, right?

 

1.  I said OVER RATED...NOT that he is a bad QB.  He has been a bad QB in the postseason though, another reason why he still remains overrated IMO.    

2.  Top 12 is NOT "ELITE"...you and others keep saying ELITE.  Which is why I keep saying he is overrated. 

 

You really struggle with understanding the phrase "overrated".  Somehow you think that means someone is saying he flat out sucks.  All that myself and others are saying is that he has not played up to his contract, he has not played up to that elite status that so many of you want to just hand him.  Hence, over rated.  

 

And the top 12 is a lot more crowded than it used to be, so he would still need to work for it.  Guys like Wentz and Goff are making cases for being in there, so is Alex Smith...none of which would have been in that top 12 list last year.  If I made a list where I inserted Luck under the assumption he was not hurt anymore...I could see putting him potentially the top 12, but its not as easy as before.

 

• Top 4 in no particular order:  Brady, Brees, Rogers, Wilson.
• Second 4, in no particular order:  Wentz, Smith, Big Ben, Ryan
• Third 4, in no particular order:  Stafford, Cousins, Carr, Luck

 

Luck is 100% not in Tier 1 over those 4 guys.  Tier 2, Wentz is playing fantastic, so he is earning his spot there and Smith is highest rated passer in the NFL and challenging for highest rated ever, so cant move him.  Big Ben is a proven winner in the playoffs and has his team 6-2 even if he may be on the tail end of his career now.  Ryan is still Matt Ryan even if the OC hasn't been as effective as the one they lost.  

 

So Tier 3 is where I can see Luck coming in, but there is a lot of competition for this tier.  Guys I didn't put in like Dak, Goff, Newton, Tyrod, Winston, Mariota, and even Watson all want to break into this tier or higher too.   

 

It's not so easy to for Luck or anyone to just automatically crack the top 12 anymore.  So Luck would still need to earn his place there on the field, no gimme by any means and the excuse period is over with him.  He must start protecting the ball better or he will never take a step up the ladder, not to mention stay on the field.  He has the potential to climb way up the ladder, but he is been in the league too long to keep talking about the potential too, now its time to show it.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

1.  I said OVER RATED...NOT that he is a bad QB.  He has been a bad QB in the postseason though, another reason why he still remains overrated IMO.    

2.  Top 12 is NOT "ELITE"...you and others keep saying ELITE.  Which is why I keep saying he is overrated. 

 

You really struggle with understanding the phrase "overrated".  Somehow you think that means someone is saying he flat out sucks.  All that myself and others are saying is that he has not played up to his contract, he has not played up to that elite status that so many of you want to just hand him.  Hence, over rated.  

 

And the top 12 is a lot more crowded than it used to be, so he would still need to work for it.  Guys like Wentz and Goff are making cases for being in there, so is Alex Smith...none of which would have been in that top 12 list last year.  If I made a list where I inserted Luck under the assumption he was not hurt anymore...I could see putting him potentially the top 12, but its not as easy as before.

 

• Top 4 in no particular order:  Brady, Brees, Rogers, Wilson.
• Second 4, in no particular order:  Wentz, Smith, Big Ben, Ryan
• Third 4, in no particular order:  Stafford, Cousins, Carr, Luck

 

Luck is 100% not in Tier 1 over those 4 guys.  Tier 2, Wentz is playing fantastic, so he is earning his spot there and Smith is highest rated passer in the NFL and challenging for highest rated ever, so cant move him.  Big Ben is a proven winner in the playoffs and has his team 6-2 even if he may be on the tail end of his career now.  Ryan is still Matt Ryan even if the OC hasn't been as effective as the one they lost.  

 

So Tier 3 is where I can see Luck coming in, but there is a lot of competition for this tier.  Guys I didn't put in like Dak, Goff, Newton, Tyrod, Winston, Mariota, and even Watson all want to break into this tier or higher too.   

 

It's not so easy to for Luck or anyone to just automatically crack the top 12 anymore.  So Luck would still need to earn his place there on the field, no gimme by any means and the excuse period is over with him.  He must start protecting the ball better or he will never take a step up the ladder, not to mention stay on the field.  He has the potential to climb way up the ladder, but he is been in the league too long to keep talking about the potential too, now its time to show it.

I guess I've never seen anybody put Luck in the top 4.  Potentially, sure, but not there already.  And I don't know if I've ever called him ELITE.

 

I'm also really confused.  You DO place him in the top 12, with guys like Stafford (definitely worse than Luck statistically, worse TD:INT ratio, worse W-L ratio), Cousins (also statistically inferior, worst TD:INT, worse W-L), and Carr (a comparable TD:INT but a worse W-L).  And that's fine, honestly.  I get there's some wiggle room and eye test and all that.  But can you honestly say Luck wasn't playing up to his contract, when Stafford and Carr are making more and Cousins is holding out to join them?

 

And then you say, "it's too long to be talking about potential," moments after talking about how Smith flew up the rankings after being drafted 11 years ago.

 

These QB ratings are fluid, is my point.  Luck's getting paid a lot, sure.  He doesn't have a lot of financial risk.  But if he came back and replicated 2014 on the 2018 Buffalo Bills, exact same numbers, exact same record, and an AFCCG appearance, would you still call him overrated?  I would call him worth every penny, because that's what you have to do to keep QB's around with that level of talent and potential these days. 

[GreggTX]

Like I've said before, their roster stinks and they could add a lot of talent with extra picks. I'm still not holding my breath, though. It sure would be nice!

 

[Thurman#1]

On 11/8/2017 at 1:38 AM, mannc said:

Yep, let's trade all our picks for a QB who (1) has a mysterious injury to his throwing shoulder that could be career-threatening; (2) has been injury-prone throughout his NFL career; (3) has played well at times, but has generally failed to live up to his absurd draft hype; (4) has been a turnover machine; and (5) carries a franchise-crippling contract.  Where do we sign up?     

 

 

 

Dunno where we sign up,, but wherever it is, we should sprint there with a pack of 12 pens in case 11 are dry.

 

The shoulder is a concern. The contract too. But your other points aren't really legit.

 

One injury isn't injury-prone. He missed zero games in his first three years. His only injury is this one. They should have got him surgery immediately.

 

And he was out-performing the hype till this injury. As for a turnover machine, he's a bit of a gunslinger, so you take that risk, but he's also a TD machine.

 

Yeah, he gets huge money. He was very much worth it up till the injury.

 

You've got two points there, not five. Yup, he's injured but plenty of QBs have come back from that surgery and performed well. Still, it's a risk. And yeah he's got a very high salary. Excellent QBs generally end up getting one and they're still very much worth it.

 

I'd snap him up in a second, and I think all but about eight or ten teams that already have strong franchise guys would do the same.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....I think it would cost the Deadskins 44+ mil to tag him again next year......so if they let him walk as a UFA, what's your offer?......Glennon money?...Carr money?.......what is he actually worth on the desperate open market and is that number fool's gold?....

 

 

May have been a typo on your part, but for the record if they franchise him again it'll be $34.5 mill, not $44. Still a lot, I know, but not $44.

 

I wouldn't mind us picking him up if Washington is dumb enough to let him go. Cousins has said consistently it's not all about the money, it's also about respect and feeling wanted. Washington has been contentious all the way. I'd give him $25 or $26 mill a year with a long contract and a strong guarantee.

 

Doing that would mean we could use all our draft capital on OLs, rush specialists, TEs and all the various other things that they need. We could get them instead of trying to trade up for a QB.

 

Cousins is no healthy Andrew Luck, but might be a lot more acquireable.

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Thurman#1

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

May have been a typo on your part, but for the record if they franchise him again it'll be $34.5 mill, not $44. Still a lot, I know, but not $44.

 

I wouldn't mind us picking him up if Washington is dumb enough to let him go. Cousins has said consistently it's not all about the money, it's also about respect and feeling wanted. Washington has been contentious all the way. I'd give him $25 or $26 mill a year with a long contract and a strong guarantee.

 

Doing that would mean we could use all our draft capital on OLs, rush specialists, TEs and all the various other things that they need. We could get them instead of trying to trade up for a QB.

 

Cousins is no healthy Andrew Luck, but might be a lot more acquireable.

 

 

....my apology Thurm.....yes it was a typo that I didn't catch......another senior moment...............

[Thurman#1]

51 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....my apology Thurm.....yes it was a typo that I didn't catch......another senior moment...............

 

 

 

No apology necessary, and as for senior moments, mine are probably well into six figures.

[mannc]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

May have been a typo on your part, but for the record if they franchise him again it'll be $34.5 mill, not $44. Still a lot, I know, but not $44.

 

I wouldn't mind us picking him up if Washington is dumb enough to let him go. Cousins has said consistently it's not all about the money, it's also about respect and feeling wanted. Washington has been contentious all the way. I'd give him $25 or $26 mill a year with a long contract and a strong guarantee.

 

Doing that would mean we could use all our draft capital on OLs, rush specialists, TEs and all the various other things that they need. We could get them instead of trying to trade up for a QB.

 

Cousins is no healthy Andrew Luck, but might be a lot more acquireable.

 

I agree with all of this except the first half of your last sentence. Cousins’s numbers the last 3 years suggest that he is at least as good as a healthy Andrew Luck; he just lacks the number one overall pick pedigree.