Report: Huge Problem Brewing between Irsay and Luck

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Just out of curiosity is “trade for an injured QB and you can find your franchise guy, look at Drew Brees” the new “you can find a franchise guy in the 6th round just look at Tom Brady?” Are we going to use the extreme outlier while ignoring the countless other failures?

 

If Luck checks out you have to take a run at him but can we please not use “it worked for the Saints” as the reasoning? 

 

Its like the player A compared to player B in their first 3 years.

[BigBuff423]

14 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

 

What injury concerns?  You know who else was disqualified from a long career from a team due to Shoulder?  You guessed it you will see him Sunday tell me how his throwing shoulder and shortened career are

 

First, Brees was 27 for the 2006 season, his first with the Saints, Luck would be 29. Second, how the Colts have handled Luck's shoulder issue is completely different than how Brees handled his as he got surgery right away, meaning the injury didn't linger. Third, due to the two year age gap - which is right in the middle of a QB's prime and that means something when you're giving up your future QB, because that's basically what you're doing exchanging the right now for later - and the fact that the shoulder injury will be going on a two year issue that was not treated properly from the beginning, it would not seem wise IMHO, to trade for Luck, UNLESS you're going to also Draft a QB early this year, ala RGIII and Cousins-esque. 

 

The Bills want their QB, but based on what McD and Beane have done thus far, I don't think they want to leverage too much of the future. They gave up a 3rd round pick for a WR who has fully recovered, is on the up-slope of his prime and possesses a skill-set the Bills did not have at the time of the trade without mortgaging their future. You make the trade - I would not - and furthermore, unless the asking price doesn't prevent the Bills from providing too much future capital, I don't think Beane does the trade either.

Edited November 8, 2017 by BigBuff423

[Dopey]

22 hours ago, SWATeam said:

What, is luck not sharing his pain meds?

Since you made me spit my beer out in laughter, you owe me one!

 

[MAJBobby]

53 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

First, Brees was 27 for the 2006 season, his first with the Saints, Luck would be 29. Second, how the Colts have handled Luck's shoulder issue is completely different than how Brees handled his as he got surgery right away, meaning the injury didn't linger. Third, due to the two year age gap - which is right in the middle of a QB's prime and that means something when you're giving up your future QB, because that's basically what you're doing exchanging the right now for later - and the fact that the shoulder injury will be going on a two year issue that was not treated properly from the beginning, it would not seem wise IMHO, to trade for Luck, UNLESS you're going to also Draft a QB early this year, ala RGIII and Cousins-esque. 

 

The Bills want their QB, but based on what McD and Beane have done thus far, I don't think they want to leverage too much of the future. They gave up a 3rd round pick for a WR who has fully recovered, is on the up-slope of his prime and possesses a skill-set the Bills did not have at the time of the trade without mortgaging their future. You make the trade - I would not - and furthermore, unless the asking price doesn't prevent the Bills from providing too much future capital, I don't think Beane does the trade either.

 

And all of that means NOTHING if his shoulder is right and Drs would go thru it with a fine tooth comb you have your franchise NFL Proven QB for 10 years minimum. 

 

What is the issue there?

 

and this coming from a guy that has been stumping for a drafted QB for YEARS 

Edited November 8, 2017 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You whine religiously about passing yards, yet Turnovers and Poor TD to INT ratio are MONUMENTALLY more important. Yet here you are trying say they dont matter to you, yet you are all over this board whining about stupid passing yards.  

 

This post of yours is all anyone ever needs to know about your ability to judge a QB.

You didn't post about TD:INT in the regular season lol. Your bias is showing my dude.

 

TD's also matter a lot, and not a peep about them in the regular season. 

 

But I guess a QB who had a bad game his last playoff game that he only got to because he dragged his team there sucks.

Edited November 8, 2017 by jmc12290

[HumbleAndHungry]

The colts have a history of getting fleeced on trades. 

 

1. Gave Cleveland a 1st rounder for Trent Richardson 

 

2. Traded Hughes to Buffalo for Kelvin Sheppard

 

3. Colts trade Luck to Buffalo for Chiefs 2018 1st rounder, Rams 2018 2nd rounder, and Philly's 2018 3rd rounder? That would give us Luck while allowing us to keep all of our original (probably higher) picks 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Finkle Is Einhorn

[Dr. Who]

I realize one would have to expend draft capital to acquire Luck, but he is the same age as Kirk Cousins.  Some folks are fine with making a lucrative free agent offer for that fella.  If you trust Bills' doctors -- I'm not sure I do, frankly -- and Luck checks out, you absolutely should consider trading for him.  

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Dopey said:

Since you made me spit my beer out in laughter, you owe me one!

 

 

Are you tailgating somewhere? 

[mannc]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I realize one would have to expend draft capital to acquire Luck, but he is the same age as Kirk Cousins.  Some folks are fine with making a lucrative free agent offer for that fella.  If you trust Bills' doctors -- I'm not sure I do, frankly -- and Luck checks out, you absolutely should consider trading for him.  

Do you understand the difference between “making a lucrative free agent offer” for someone and trading more than half your draft for someone who already has a franchise-crippling contract?  Do you see why the former might be more attractive?  And you do realize that Cousins has a clean bill of health and has mostly outperformed Luck, right?

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

Do you understand the difference between “making a lucrative free agent offer” for someone and trading more than half your draft for someone who already has a franchise-crippling contract?  Do you see why the former might be more attractive?  And you do realize that Cousins has a clean bill of health and has mostly outperformed Luck, right?

 

I know you are a big Cousins guy mannc..... what do you make of how he has played this year?  

[Dr. Who]

25 minutes ago, mannc said:

Do you understand the difference between “making a lucrative free agent offer” for someone and trading more than half your draft for someone who already has a franchise-crippling contract?  Do you see why the former might be more attractive?  And you do realize that Cousins has a clean bill of health and has mostly outperformed Luck, right?

I did not say anything about trading half your draft so I don't need to defend such a hypothetical.  If the cost is prohibitive, it's a non-starter.  I stated as a precondition Bills' doctors determining that Luck is actually healthy.  I surmise that with a decent o-line and a better defense, Luck would flourish more here than with the Colts.  I'd like to see the difference between Luck's contract and what Cousins ends up getting before determining what constitutes a "franchise-crippling" contract.  I bet Cousins ends up with a similar deal.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Dr. Who
spelling

[mannc]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I know you are a big Cousins guy mannc..... what do you make of how he has played this year?  

His play has been consistent with what he's done the past two years:  Clearly top 10 QB in the league, possibly top 5.  His numbers compare very favorably with Luck, who continues to benefit from the aura of having been the number 1 overall pick, while Cousins was a fourth rounder.  Any team that could sign Cousins to a F/A deal would be absolutely foolish to trade away draft picks for A. Luck.

 

BTW, the Skins are 4-4, but have played an absolutely brutal schedule.  They are a flawed team but the schedule gets much easier the second half.  They will make a late playoff push, much like they have the past two years.  

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

I did not say anything about trading half your draft so I don't need to defend such a hypothetical.  If the cost is prohibitive, it's a non-starter.  I stated as a precondition Bills' doctors determining that Luck is actually healthy.  I surmise that with a decent o-line and a better defense, Luck would flourish more here than with the Colts.  I'd like to see the difference between Luck's contract and what Cousins ends up getting before determining what constitutes a "franchise-crippling" contract.  I bet Cousins ends up with a similar deal.

I know you did not say "trade half your draft" , but if you think the Colts would trade Luck (if healthy) for one (or even two) first round draft picks, you are mistaken.  The Bears traded two number ones for Smokin' Jay Cutler a few years ago.  I agree with you that Cousins will probably end up with a deal similar to Luck's, but the point I was making is that Cousins is at least as good  as Luck, has no injury history, and can be signed as a F/A without surrendering a single draft pick.

Edited November 8, 2017 by mannc

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

His play has been consistent with what he's done the past two years:  Clearly top 10 QB in the league, possibly top 5.  His numbers compare very favorably with Luck, who continues to benefit from the aura of having been the number 1 overall pick, while Cousins was a fourth rounder.  Any team that could sign Cousins to a F/A deal would be absolutely foolish to trade away draft picks for A. Luck.

 

BTW, the Skins are 4-4, but have played an absolutely brutal schedule.  They are a flawed team but the schedule gets much easier the second half.  They will make a late playoff push, much like they have the past two years.  

 

I think this year was a big litmus test for Cousins. Is he a franchise QB or is he a good game manager who was lifted by the offensive talent around him.  I have to say I have been impressed.  I agree the Redskins are primed for a run in the 2nd half of this year.  Them finishing 10-6 is a realistic possibility.  I agree that halfway through this season it is hard to argue against him as a top 10 Quarterback and for me he fits rightly in my Franchise category.  I'm not quite ready to go top 5... and I still really, really rate Andrew Luck who has played on a terrible Colts team.  

 

I'd happily take Cousins in Buffalo. I think he is a definite upgrade and before this season began I was not convinced he was much of one.  

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think this year was a big litmus test for Cousins. Is he a franchise QB or is he a good game manager who was lifted by the offensive talent around him.  I have to say I have been impressed.  I agree the Redskins are primed for a run in the 2nd half of this year.  Them finishing 10-6 is a realistic possibility.  I agree that halfway through this season it is hard to argue against him as a top 10 Quarterback and for me he fits rightly in my Franchise category.  I'm not quite ready to go top 5... and I still really, really rate Andrew Luck who has played on a terrible Colts team.  

 

I'd happily take Cousins in Buffalo. I think he is a definite upgrade and before this season began I was not convinced he was much of one.  

Just watch the Skins fall off a cliff next year if they don't re-sign Cousins.  They would be 1-7 or even 0-8 this year without Cousins.  

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

Just watch the Skins fall off a cliff next year if they don't re-sign Cousins.  They would be 1-7 or even 0-8 this year without Cousins.  

 

See I still like some of their talent. But he has had one of the best collections of receiving weapons in the league the past 2 years.... this year shorn of his two 1,000 yard receivers and with his favourite redzone TE hobbled all year I think his performances have been very impressive.

 

As to what they do without him as ever it depends who they do have. But I think that roster has some pieces. Give them a Tyrod or a Sam Bradford next year I think they are still a 7-9 / 8-8 team. Just not the potential 10 win team they are with Cousins.

[BigBuff423]

4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And all of that means NOTHING if his shoulder is right and Drs would go thru it with a fine tooth comb you have your franchise NFL Proven QB for 10 years minimum. 

 

What is the issue there?

 

and this coming from a guy that has been stumping for a drafted QB for YEARS 

 

How can it mean NOTHING?? Luck will be 29 and you say, "10 years minimum", like it's a guarantee....how could you or anyone possibly know that?? You're exchanging one unknown for another....we shall agree to disagree, but I don't like the risk involved for the Luck trade when I have a more measured and controlled risk in Drafting a QB with any of my picks in the first 2 rounds. 

 

It's more controlled because I know the information I have on him, I know for sure the shoulder is healthy because I'm not Drafting one in the first 2 rounds has been out for the year, I know he is already 7 to 8 years YOUNGER, and I know that no other organization has gotten what 'could' be the best of him during some really prime years, 25-30. I also know, if I'm Drafting a QB in those first 2 rounds and have done interviews with him, his coaches, and watched interviews of his, he will be hungry and motivated in the way I need him to be coming onto the team as the presumed #1 QB. 

 

We disagree, it's cool....but I'm not exchanging damaged goods for a QB who already has seen quite a bit of wear-and-tear on him for a QB who is a terrific prospect and *could* be my solution for the next (by your math) 16-18 years while using my extra Draft picks for other positions, because Luck isn't coming here for anything less than multiple Draft picks AT LEAST one of which would be a 1st and probably it would take two 1sts and maybe more to get it done. In other words: no thanks, i'll trust the process.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

I agree with you that Cousins will probably end up with a deal similar to Luck's, but the point I was making is that Cousins is at least as good  as Luck, has no injury history, and can be signed as a F/A without surrendering a single draft pick.

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I agree that halfway through this season it is hard to argue against him as a top 10 Quarterback and for me he fits rightly in my Franchise category.  I'm not quite ready to go top 5... and I still really, really rate Andrew Luck who has played on a terrible Colts team.  

 

I'd happily take Cousins in Buffalo. I think he is a definite upgrade and before this season began I was not convinced he was much of one.  

I have not watched a lot of Cousins this year.  I like his leadership qualities, though I had assumed previously he benefitted from system and a nice wr corps.  If he is as good as you fellas surmise, obviously you ought to make a play for him.  Lot of teams looking for qb, though.  Still like Luck and if Irsay was unhinged enough to unload him below market value you'd have to at least inquire.  Taylor has outperformed what I anticipated, but I'd still like to upgrade at the most important position in football.

[H2o]

Irsay is likely the biggest douche bag owner in the NFL. He ran Peyton Manning out of town, who went on to break single season records and win a SB with the Broncos, and now he's going to cause Luck to force his hand to move him out of town. Combine this with his personal background and there you have it.

[CLTbills]

On 11/7/2017 at 9:59 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We do....we very much do.

No thanks. Not seeing how bad this shoulder injury is turning out to be. There's fear now he may not play again. Like ever.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think this year was a big litmus test for Cousins. Is he a franchise QB or is he a good game manager who was lifted by the offensive talent around him.  I have to say I have been impressed.  I agree the Redskins are primed for a run in the 2nd half of this year.  Them finishing 10-6 is a realistic possibility.  I agree that halfway through this season it is hard to argue against him as a top 10 Quarterback and for me he fits rightly in my Franchise category.  I'm not quite ready to go top 5... and I still really, really rate Andrew Luck who has played on a terrible Colts team.  

 

I'd happily take Cousins in Buffalo. I think he is a definite upgrade and before this season began I was not convinced he was much of one.  

 

....I think it would cost the Deadskins 44+ mil to tag him again next year......so if they let him walk as a UFA, what's your offer?......Glennon money?...Carr money?.......what is he actually worth on the desperate open market and is that number fool's gold?....