Figster Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: I actually think Taylor's last 3 games have been by far his best 3 game stretch of his career thus far. I don't think we'll pass as much as some believe against the Saints simply because their D is supposed to be weakest vs. the run, but I'm really excited to see what Taylor can do with Benjamin and Clay on the field. And I hope Zay Jones is healthy and good to play because he was finally starting to look the part vs. the Jets. It was nice to see Taylor and Jones clicking
GreggTX Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 Let's see him win a playoff game first. Then I'll concede this point. In the mean time, give the Colts a call and see what's up.
BullBuchanan Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Tyrod Taylor is OUR QUARTERBACK / thread #NotMyQuarterback 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 He's approaching or has already become the best QB since Kelly.
transplantbillsfan Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: #NotMyQuarterback Not a Bills fan, eh?
BullBuchanan Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Not a Bills fan, eh? Haven't missed a game since '90, and it was a joke, not a ****, don't take it so hard.
Thurman#1 Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) On 11/4/2017 at 2:31 AM, Domdab99 said: He proved it last night. There is no QB in the league who could've done better that TT did last night. Constant pressure, a sieve of an OL...but he kept it calm and cool and did what he could. Hit every damn receiver he had all over the field. If anyone ever again says he can't throw over the middle, you need to turn in your Bills card. The running game was awful. His receiver dropped balls and fumbled. He had three monsters in his face hitting him within 2 seconds of just about ever play. He still fought and still had a good game. I know it sounds strange after such a drubbing, but this may be the game that we look back on and point to when we say, "Tyrod is finally the Man." Embarrassing loss, yes. But don't blame Tyrod. He played great. Nobody said he can't throw over the middle, at least not after any watching of tape. What happens is people watch the tape and say he has problems over the deep and intermediate middle, that he doesn't go there nearly as often as other QBs do. Then Tyrod's jock sniffers start saying, "People say Tyrod can't throw over the middle," and the whole argument is shifted. It all comes from Tyrod's most desperate supporters ignoring what's specifically been said. He throws fine and often to the short middle. Always has. Nobody should ever argue that. As for being a franchise QB, nah. Agreed he had a pretty solid game, though. The one before that was very good. But a game or two doesn't make a franchise QB. It's high level performance with consistency that does that. Tyrod has always had some very good games. And some very bad ones. Edited November 9, 2017 by Thurman#1
Wayne Arnold Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 On 11/7/2017 at 2:40 PM, transplantbillsfan said: https://twitter.com/SInow/status/926553585118101504 Even in a conversation where they're supposedly praising Taylor, the guys says this: "So you do have to acknowledge those limitations. Even with the strong grading, he's not a guy who you're necessarily going to put the ball in his hands to win you the game." Exactly. He's a solid stop-gap until you can find a franchise quarterback. This is exactly why the PFF grades are so dumb.
grb Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: What happens is people watch the tape and say he has problems over the deep and intermediate middle, that he doesn't go there nearly as often as other QBs do. Then Tyrod's jock sniffers start saying, "People say Tyrod can't throw over the middle," and the whole argument is shifted. It all comes from Tyrod's most desperate supporters ignoring what's specifically been said. Two points : A zillion people said Taylor "can't throw over the middle". Is it possible you never saw that nonsense repeated over & over & over & over? No, it's not possible. So you must be trolling, which is a pretty "desperate" thing to do. You've tried this "deep & intermediate" shtick before, and it's never worked - not even once. Why do you think it will work this time? Attached is a link to NFL passing charts. Give it a look and you'll find your not "nearly as often as other QBs do" thing is as bogus now as the other twenty times you've tried it. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 31 minutes ago, grb said: A zillion people said Taylor "can't throw over the middle". Can't or didn't? there is a difference.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 posting these stats over and over proves nothing.
grb Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Can't or didn't? there is a difference. Is there? I don't think the people religiously convinced Taylor never threw to the middle thought it a whimsical quirk. Nope, it was another one of his innate flaws, of which the man apparently has dozens upon dozens. He can't throw accurately, he can't see the field, he can't understand defenses, he can't make decisions, he can't throw to his tight end, but he can't throw to his wide receivers, he can't do progressions, he can't "throw receivers open", he can't throw from the pocket, he can't lead late fourth quarter drives, etc, etc, etc. It's pretty amazing someone who can't do any of the things every other NFL QB does sits there at no. 11 by the NFL passer rating - with an o-line prone to turnstile-mode, a rushing attack which disappears completely for whole games, and receiving targets rescued from league equivalent of Goodwill. Just think what Taylor might accomplish if he wasn't the most incompetent quarterback who ever existed in the universe? But to get back on point : (1) Very early starting Taylor focused on outside throws. (2) Into his first year starting, he was throwing to the middle - but at a slightly lower rate than typical. (3) Yeah, he doesn't go to the deep middle often, but it's an infrequent throw league-wide. Edited November 9, 2017 by grb
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, grb said: Is there? I don't think the people religiously convinced Taylor never threw to the middle thought it a whimsical quirk. Nope, it was another one of his innate flaws, of which the man apparently has dozens upon dozens. He can't throw accurately, he can't see the field, he can't understand defenses, he can't make decisions, he can't throw to his tight end, but he can't throw to his wide receivers, he can't do progressions, he can't "throw receivers open", he can't throw from the pocket, he can't lead late fourth quarter drives, etc, etc, etc. It's pretty amazing someone who can't do any of the things every other NFL QB does sits there at no. 11 by the NFL passer rating - with an o-line prone to turnstile-mode, a rushing attack which disappears completely for whole games, and receiving targets rescued from league equivalent of Goodwill. Just think what Taylor might accomplish if he wasn't the most incompetent quarterback who ever existed in the universe? But to get back on point : (1) Very early starting Taylor focused on outside throws. (2) Into his first year starting, he was throwing to the middle but at a slightly lower rate than typical. (3) Yeah, he doesn't go to the deep middle often, but it's an infrequent throw league-wide. Yes, there is. He can chose not to or he can choose to. That doesn't mean he can not. Taylor has always thrown over the middle. the argument was that his #'s were "below" league average. Generally speaking This whole argument is TRASH. It's as much trash here as it was on the BBMB.
transplantbillsfan Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Nobody said he can't throw over the middle, at least not after any watching of tape. What happens is people watch the tape and say he has problems over the deep and intermediate middle, that he doesn't go there nearly as often as other QBs do. Then Tyrod's jock sniffers start saying, "People say Tyrod can't throw over the middle," and the whole argument is shifted. It all comes from Tyrod's most desperate supporters ignoring what's specifically been said. He throws fine and often to he short middle. Always has. Nobody should ever argue that. Cut the crap with the deep middle obsession, Thurm. Go look at the passing charts over at NFL Next Gen stats. Anyone can easily see the REALITY that NFL QBs rarely throw to your deep middle 1/3rd of the field. According to NFL Next Gen Stats... Attempts to the DEEP MIDDLE THIRD OF THE FIELD (20+ yards) Tom Brady- 15 out of 309 attempts or 4.8% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tom-brady/BRA371156/season Russell Wilson- 10 out of 303 attempts or 3.3% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/russell-wilson/WIL777781/season Dak Prescott- 4 out of 259 attempts or 1.5%% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/dak-prescott/PRE285723/season Alex Smith- 9 out of 293 attempts or 3% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/alex-smith/SMI031126/season Big Ben- 11 out of 275 attempts or 4% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/season Carson Wentz- 10 out of 291 attempts or 3.4% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/carson-wentz/WEN615770/season Kirk Cousins- 5 out of 268 attempts or 1.9% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/kirk-cousins/COU709400/season Philip Rivers-6 out of 286 attempts or 2% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/philip-rivers/RIV651634/season Now, Tyrod has 1 attempt to the deep middle of the field, according to Next Gen Stats, but for some weird reason, whereas all the above QBs have every single game they played charted, Taylor only has 7/8. I don't know why, but they've excluded the Raiders game. That mean's Taylor's percentage of total passes to the deep middle is 0.5%. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tyrod-taylor/TAY764868/season QBs very very rarely throw to the deep middle third that you're so obsessed with talking about. It's an irrelevant discussion that you keep bringing up. No one cares about the deep middle. This idea that good QBs have an almost exactly even division of throws between 1/3rds of the field is utter crap. QBs throw where they're most comfortable. They don't throw everywhere equally and indiscriminately. Stop making stuff up just because it suits your argument. Maybe in the fantasy world you live in QBs divide their deep throws evenly. Reality is this for at least 2 QBs people would consider "great" Tom Brady https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tom-brady/BRA371156/season Deep (20+ yard) attempts- 44 Attempts to left- 43% of deep throws Attempts to middle- 34% of deep throws Attempts to right- 23% of deep throws Looks like Brady better get crackin on those throws to the right Russell Wilson https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/russell-wilson/WIL777781/season Deep (20+ yard) attempts- 44 Attempts to left- 48% of deep throws Attempts to middle- 24% of deep throws Attempts to right- 28% of deep throws QBs don't divide their throws to the deep portion of the field, at all. If anything, they favor the left side of the field, which is pretty interesting because when you look at Taylor's charts, he favors the right. But all QBs favor different areas of the field and none divide evenly or really even close to evenly considering there's a 20% difference between the GOAT and Wilson in terms of "most favored" and "least favored." Now, that said, the intermediate middle HAS always been an area of concern, and (once again), when you look at Next Gen Stats, Taylor has SERIOUSLY improved on those intermediate middle throws. In another thread, I pointed out that Taylor was 13/16 with 2 TDs and 0 INTs to the intermediate middle portion of the field. That's 7.7% of all his passes in those 7 games charted to the intermediate middle of the field. For comparison, Russell Wilson is 16/25 (8.3% of his 2017 passes) with 2 TDs and 1 Interception. So, yeah, the intermediate middle of the field was a concern for Taylor in 2015, but he seemed to improve a bit in 2016 and even more in 2017. No need to peddle this deep middle thing that's never been part of a legitimate discussion about the intermediate middle. Glad I could help Edited November 9, 2017 by transplantbillsfan 1
BringBackOrton Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Cut the crap with the deep middle obsession, Thurm. Go look at the passing charts over at NFL Next Gen stats. Anyone can easily see the REALITY that NFL QBs rarely throw to your deep middle 1/3rd of the field. According to NFL Next Gen Stats... Attempts to the DEEP MIDDLE THIRD OF THE FIELD (20+ yards) Tom Brady- 15 out of 309 attempts or 4.8% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tom-brady/BRA371156/season Russell Wilson- 10 out of 303 attempts or 3.3% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/russell-wilson/WIL777781/season Dak Prescott- 4 out of 259 attempts or 1.5%% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/dak-prescott/PRE285723/season Alex Smith- 9 out of 293 attempts or 3% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/alex-smith/SMI031126/season Big Ben- 11 out of 275 attempts or 4% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/season Carson Wentz- 10 out of 291 attempts or 3.4% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/carson-wentz/WEN615770/season Kirk Cousins- 5 out of 268 attempts or 1.9% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/kirk-cousins/COU709400/season Philip Rivers-6 out of 286 attempts or 2% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/philip-rivers/RIV651634/season Now, Tyrod has 1 attempt to the deep middle of the field, according to Next Gen Stats, but for some weird reason, whereas all the above QBs have every single game they played charted, Taylor only has 7/8. I don't know why, but they've excluded the Raiders game. That mean's Taylor's percentage of total passes to the deep middle is 0.5%. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tyrod-taylor/TAY764868/season QBs very very rarely throw to the deep middle third that you're so obsessed with talking about. It's an irrelevant discussion that you keep bringing up. No one cares about the deep middle. This idea that good QBs have an almost exactly even division of throws between 1/3rds of the field is utter crap. QBs throw where they're most comfortable. They don't throw everywhere equally and indiscriminately. Stop making stuff up just because it suits your argument. Maybe in the fantasy world you live in QBs divide their deep throws evenly. Reality is this for at least 2 QBs people would consider "great" Tom Brady https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tom-brady/BRA371156/season Deep (20+ yard) attempts- 44 Attempts to left- 43% of deep throws Attempts to middle- 34% of deep throws Attempts to right- 23% of deep throws Looks like Brady better get crackin on those throws to the right Russell Wilson https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/russell-wilson/WIL777781/season Deep (20+ yard) attempts- 44 Attempts to left- 48% of deep throws Attempts to middle- 24% of deep throws Attempts to right- 28% of deep throws QBs don't divide their throws to the deep portion of the field, at all. If anything, they favor the left side of the field, which is pretty interesting because when you look at Taylor's charts, he favors the right. But all QBs favor different areas of the field and none divide evenly or really even close to evenly considering there's a 20% difference between the GOAT and Wilson in terms of "most favored" and "least favored." Now, that said, the intermediate middle HAS always been an area of concern, and (once again), when you look at Next Gen Stats, Taylor has SERIOUSLY improved on those intermediate middle throws. In another thread, I pointed out that Taylor was 13/16 with 2 TDs and 0 INTs to the intermediate middle portion of the field. That's 7.7% of all his passes in those 7 games charted to the intermediate middle of the field. For comparison, Russell Wilson is 16/25 (8.3% of his 2017 passes) with 2 TDs and 1 Interception. So, yeah, the intermediate middle of the field was a concern for Taylor in 2015, but he seemed to improve a bit in 2016 and even more in 2017. No need to peddle this deep middle thing that's never been part of a legitimate discussion about the intermediate middle. Glad I could help Every QB you posted was either double, or triple or quadruple, or almost 10x as much throwing to the deep third as Taylor. Kinda confusing how you don't see the vast difference between .5% and 4.8%. Would you buy a lottery ticket with 1/20 odds or 1/200?
section122 Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 36 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: Every QB you posted was either double, or triple or quadruple, or almost 10x as much throwing to the deep third as Taylor. Kinda confusing how you don't see the vast difference between .5% and 4.8%. Would you buy a lottery ticket with 1/20 odds or 1/200? I like how you used the English language there. Very impressive. By saying double, quadruple, etc.. you make it seem like a huge difference. Instead of saying 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, or even at most 14 more throws you used the multiplier which makes the difference seem much greater than it is. Then you picked the most extreme example of 4.8 to .5 nicely ignoring that 3 of the guys are within 1.5% and even your extreme outlier is only 4.3% more. Then you pull 1/20 or 1/200. 4.3% better odds would be the difference between 1/20 or 1.86/20. I'll put it to you another way. Your "vast difference" between .5% and 4.8% means that Taylor would need to have attempted 12 total throws to be at 5%. So 11 more throws over his 236 attempts would make him the leader in the category. As Transplant pointed out though it isn't a throw qbs make often as 11 total throws would be more than everyone on your list save for Brady. The likely GOAT QB throwing to the likely GOAT TE. Shocker that they throw that more than anyone else in the league... btw his 236 attempts are 23-73 less throws than the other guys, is that also a vast difference? That is anywhere from 9% and 23% more throws. *started celebrating being out of work already, numbers subject to me being slightly under the influence 1
Scott7975 Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: posting these stats over and over proves nothing. One person saying Tyrod sucks and another person saying Tyrod is a franchise QB proves nothing either. 2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Yes, there is. He can chose not to or he can choose to. That doesn't mean he can not. Taylor has always thrown over the middle. the argument was that his #'s were "below" league average. Generally speaking This whole argument is TRASH. It's as much trash here as it was on the BBMB. You're right the argument was trash. He only threw to the middle a couple % less than most QBs but as typical people have to post overblown garbage to say Tyrod sucks. Edited November 9, 2017 by Scott7975
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