Tyrod is a franchise QB

[JaCrispy]

11 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

what upgrades this team for the better more tomorrow and long term - this is where i am on the fence.

an offensive lineman - a wide receiver - a qb

i'm thinking if we just upgraded right guard and right tackle we'd be head and shoulders better.

i don't understand why 2016 was so much better blocking and it isn't the blocking scheme.

i think part of it is taylor is being coached not to move up in the pocket and run like he used to.  he rolls to the outside instead of stepping up in the pocket like he used to and that isn't even with a linebacker spying him.

After watching the debacle that was the Jets game, I would really like to see this team draft both OL and DL early and often...if we are planning on being a run first team that wins with defense, solidifying the trenches are crucial imo

I also feel the read option from last year may have masked a lot of the deficiencies on the OL

Edited November 4, 2017 by JaCrispy

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Would you not agree with most? How many is some over/under half? It’s definitely over. 

Yeah probably most.  But I think there's discourse, unlike Winston/Mariota.

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

They're better because of the media tongue bath they got before the draft. 

Yes, the media is why Winston went #1 and TT not until the 6th.

Edited November 4, 2017 by jmc12290

[boyst]

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

After watching the debacle that was the Jets game, I would really like to see this team draft both OL and DL early and often...if we are planning on being a run first team that wins with defense, solidifying the trenches are crucial imo

we have been hitting on bringing in veteran DL recently.  I think there are better options in that facet of team building than drafting them.  there are too many factors at play when judging a prospect as a college.  if we never drafted a DL again i would be happy - pass rushers should be LB's imo or the extreme chance of a blue chip elite DE.  but never a DT or edge setting DE...well, maybe not in the first 3 rounds.

First 4 picks of the draft I would be happy going BPA at QB, OL, OL, LB.  I would go WR and DL in FA.

i do like Lawson, though.  i see him having a long serviceable career not too much off of chris kelsey.  if coached correctly and used properly he will be worth keeping.

but to turn this back to the topic, we don't have a need at qb.  we have a desire to upgrade and i think we should if we can at the right cost.  we have needs at RB2, OL, DL, LB, CB (remember Gaines isn't here next year and injured), and TE. 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Yeah probably most.  But I think there's discourse, unlike Winston/Mariota.

Yes, the media is why Winston went #1 and TT not until the 6th.

I don’t disagree at all. The point is that “GMs would take ____” isn’t the same as “____ is playing better.” As of today Tyrod has been better than both Jameis and Mariota IMO. There are lots of metrics that support that. I didn’t include them in “definitely better” because you can’t be playing worse and be “definitely better.” That holds especially true for guys with limited resumes. 

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

 

Yes, the media is why Winston went #1 and TT not until the 6th.

I was referring to fans, in that the QBs who had the big build up since college are given the benefit of the doubt even when 6th rounders are playing better. 

[bobobonators]

I dont want to get into franchise QB debates because the term itself is up for interpretation. 

Tyrod is a QB that, with a decent supporting cast around him, can win games (like the large majority of QBs in the NFL). 

Im a fan of Tyrod for what he brings to the table:  

1. Explosive ability. He can throw the deep ball (when he has a deep threat) with the best of them.

2. He can sometimes make plays out of nothing with his ability to scramble and extend plays. His ability to run for first downs is elite. 

3. He has elite ball security. For a QB that is as mobile as Tyrod his ability to protect the ball is ridiculous. He rarely ever fumbles. He rarely ever throws INT’s. His TD/Turnover ratio is about top 5 in the NFL. 

Where he needs to improve:

1. Gain trust with his WR. His ability to prevent turnovers is almost to his detriment. He needs to be able to put more trust in his receivers and throw the ball with a bit more anticipation and/or when the receiver isnt wide open. In his defense, he has had a carrousel at WR over the last two years and hasnt been able to gain chemistry with any single player. When it looked like him and Clay were starting to really click, Clay went down. That being said, he needs to still get over that mental hurdle and just sling it a little more. 

2. Pocket presence. This Oline is arguably the worst he has had since being in Buffalo. Lets face it: Mills and Ducasse have no business starting. Wood is on his last legs, and Incognito is going on 35yrs old. We need a complete overhaul on the Oline (good thing we have a lot of draft picks!). That being said, he has a tendency to bail too quickly on plays. Maybe its bc hes a bit shorter so when the pocket collapses he wants a clear sight down field or maybe its just his scrambling instinct. Either way, he needs to learn how to shift within the pocket a little better without completely bailing out of the pocket and rolling out. 

 

So, in short, there is a a LOT thats good about Tyrod. A couple of things need improvement. I really think that Tyrod’s “deficiency” when it comes to slinging it a little more and trusting his WR can definitely improve once he finally has some stability at WR and he plays more games under the same offensive system. However, im not sure how much his pocket awareness can improve at this point. In that regard he may be who he is.

Overall, hes one of the better QB’s in this league when you look at the total package he brings to the table. Is that a franchise QB? Well hes not a HOF and hes no Rodgers or Brady. But hes definitely better than about 15 other QB’s in the league in my opinion. 

 

[JaCrispy]

7 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

we have been hitting on bringing in veteran DL recently.  I think there are better options in that facet of team building than drafting them.  there are too many factors at play when judging a prospect as a college.  if we never drafted a DL again i would be happy - pass rushers should be LB's imo or the extreme chance of a blue chip elite DE.  but never a DT or edge setting DE...well, maybe not in the first 3 rounds.

First 4 picks of the draft I would be happy going BPA at QB, OL, OL, LB.  I would go WR and DL in FA.

i do like Lawson, though.  i see him having a long serviceable career not too much off of chris kelsey.  if coached correctly and used properly he will be worth keeping.

but to turn this back to the topic, we don't have a need at qb.  we have a desire to upgrade and i think we should if we can at the right cost.  we have needs at RB2, OL, DL, LB, CB (remember Gaines isn't here next year and injured), and TE. 

Couldn't agree more, especially on the edge setting DE...while solid, I feel Shaq Lawson was drafted too early for what he brings to the table...and I think that's a big reason our pass rush is suffering.

I, too, am ok with QB, unless we find one we really like... and even if we stick with what we have, upgrades at OL would certainly go a long way to help.

[bobobonators]

19 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

we have been hitting on bringing in veteran DL recently.  I think there are better options in that facet of team building than drafting them.  there are too many factors at play when judging a prospect as a college.  if we never drafted a DL again i would be happy - pass rushers should be LB's imo or the extreme chance of a blue chip elite DE.  but never a DT or edge setting DE...well, maybe not in the first 3 rounds.

First 4 picks of the draft I would be happy going BPA at QB, OL, OL, LB.  I would go WR and DL in FA.

i do like Lawson, though.  i see him having a long serviceable career not too much off of chris kelsey.  if coached correctly and used properly he will be worth keeping.

but to turn this back to the topic, we don't have a need at qb.  we have a desire to upgrade and i think we should if we can at the right cost.  we have needs at RB2, OL, DL, LB, CB (remember Gaines isn't here next year and injured), and TE. 

I would love to take our first 5 picks and invest it all on the LOS. 

In no specific order:  2 OL, 1 LB, 2 DL

1. KW is getting old. We need a DT. 

2. We need an ede rusher on the DL if we only plan on rushing 4. 

3. Incognito is going to be 35. Mills is not a starter. Ducasse is garbage. We literally need 2 starting OL. 

4. I feel that McD would probably love to have a field general at LB like he had in Carolina. A LB that can be the leader of his defense for the next 10yrs. 

We have the picks. All of the above can be accomplished this draft; or at least attempted. 

Then the rest of the draft can be used for depth at DB, RB, LB. 

[boyst]

1 minute ago, bobobonators said:

I would love to take our first 5 picks and invest it all on the LOS. 

In no specific order:  2 OL, 1 LB, 2 DL

1. KW is getting old. We need a DT. 

2. We need an ede rusher on the DL if we only plan on rushing 4. 

3. Incognito is going to be 35. Mills is not a starter. Ducasse is garbage. We literally need 2 starting OL. 

4. I feel that McD would probably love to have a field general at LB like he had in Carolina. A LB that can be the leader of his defense for the next 10yrs. 

We have the picks. All of the above can be accomplished this draft; or at least attempted. 

Then the rest of the draft can be used for depth at DB, RB, LB. 

i'd love to know why he didn't pursue AJ Klein at all.  Klein could be playing MLB for us in a pinch and would be starting over Alexander who has turned to dung.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

38 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

After watching the debacle that was the Jets game, I would really like to see this team draft both OL and DL early and often...if we are planning on being a run first team that wins with defense, solidifying the trenches are crucial imo

I also feel the read option from last year may have masked a lot of the deficiencies on the OL

...interesting assessment 'Crispy.....Drafttek  site (Astro here has affiliation ) has Bflo going either OL/DL or DL/OL with the two 1sts and Luke Falk in the 2nd..............

Edited November 4, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[bobobonators]

3 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

i'd love to know why he didn't pursue AJ Klein at all.  Klein could be playing MLB for us in a pinch and would be starting over Alexander who has turned to dung.

Good question. He’s having a decent season for the Saints, and he’s pretty young. 

[IBinTionesta]

Even Romo was clowning him late in the game. 1 on 1 on the outside and not taking his shots. Everyone can see it and that includes opposing defenses from here on out. Benjamin wins those matchups most of the time and Taylor isn't even going to think about throwing up a contested ball. I will say this, thank god we have a mobile qb like Taylor right now because if we have a statue back there behind this offensive line he will get killed!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....a "franchise QB" is one that is a significant "cut above the rest" IMO.....and the majority of those today are on the downside with very few "up and comers".....like to think a significant measurement would be 4th quarter comebacks where the QB puts the other 10 on his shoulders and can march down the field in <2 minutes to put up the "W" when called upon....don't see where TT fits that definition......many posts have identified his shortcomings which after 7+ years may not be overcome to attain franchise status......sure hope he does as I have zero hate or any other similar nonsense towards the kid.....

 

 

 

[Talley56]

Tyrod was not fully to blame but he also wasn't blameless.  Yeah there was a number of fumbles but let's not forget Tyrod was one of those fumbles and if we are going to hold Matthews and O'Leary accountable for their fumbles then Tyrod needs to be held accountable for his.

On the flip side, a lot of our points in our big win over Oakland were thanks to turnovers our defense created.

[PromoTheRobot]

I can sit here and list every mistake Derek Carr, Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota make in a game too. How about Matt Stafford against the Steelers? Are we going down that rabbit hole? 

Edited November 4, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I can sit here and list every mistake Derek Carr, Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota make in a game too. How about Matt Stafford against the Steelers? Are we going down that rabbit hole? 

....LMAO.....isn't this the site of micromanaging experts?......after all, when <300 yds is THE major and predominating component of assessment, everything else is down hill thereafter.....

[Scott7975]

People that think Taylor was the problem in this football game are just crazy.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Yes.  Indubitably.

If you polled 32 GMs, I am very confident 32/32 would take Jameis/Mariota over TT tomorrow.

I bet most GMs in this past offseason would have taken Glennon over Tyrod too. That’s because NFL GMs are regularly terrible and don’t know how to make good predictions. Brock Osweiler got a huge contract! Joe Flacco was the highest paid QB ever at the time when he got his extension, and since then has done absolutely nothing to live up to it. At the beginning of this year I’ll bet a decent percentage of GMs would have said they would take Siemian over Tyrod. Now, no chance. So I really don’t care what the average GM would do. They mostly suck at their job.

Winston and Mariota have flashed potential but they’re as inconsistent as anyone. If you watched the Titans closely like you do the Bills, what would your reaction be when they narrowly defeated the Browns in OT in a game with all field goals?

[Bangarang]

Just now, HappyDays said:

I bet most GMs in this past offseason would have taken Glennon over Tyrod too. That’s because NFL GMs are regularly terrible and don’t know how to make good predictions. Brock Osweiler got a huge contract! Joe Flacco was the highest paid QB ever at the time when he got his extension, and since then has done absolutely nothing to live up to it. At the beginning of this year I’ll bet a decent percentage of GMs would have said they would take Siemian over Tyrod. Now, no chance. So I really don’t care what the average GM would do. They mostly suck at their job.

Winston and Mariota have flashed potential but they’re as inconsistent as anyone. If you watched the Titans closely like you do the Bills, what would your reaction be when they narrowly defeated the Browns in OT in a game with all field goals?

There’s absolutely no way you believe most GMs would have taken Glennon over Tyrod. That’s just silly.

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Yes.  Indubitably.

If you polled 32 GMs, I am very confident 32/32 would take Jameis/Mariota over TT tomorrow.

Because they are younger and have more potential. Not because they are necessarily better as of right now