Tyrod is a franchise QB

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Iron Maiden said:

 

I'm very disappointed...a " Knowledgeable " football fan knows that judging a QB solely with Ws or Ls is not the way to go....Answer me this...If Detroit comes knocking on our door today and offers us Matt for TT...do you say no ?.......how about the Raiders....yeah.....check mate .......

 

You're really talking in circles and losing your own argument.

 

You and xRushx are doing an amazing job destroying whatever credibility the "Tyrod sucks" argument ever had, keep it up

[Iron Maiden]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You're really talking in circles and losing your own argument.

 

You and xRushx are doing an amazing job destroying whatever credibility the "Tyrod sucks" argument ever had, keep it up

 

Except I've never said Tyrod sucks...nice try .....I am saying he's not a franchise QB and I don 't believe we'll win a SB with him...he's a bridge QB...nothing more, nothing less.....And coming from you, it's classic hypocrisy....we all remember your meltdown on BBMB ...how after a certain game last year, you went on a rant about how TT was not the guy, how you had finally reached your limit and couldn't defend him anymore....do you think we all forgot ?.....laughable.....it would seem that out of either of us, you're the one who actually, at one point, said that TT sucked...not I....

Edited November 6, 2017 by Iron Maiden

[transplantbillsfan]

53 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

 

Except I've never said Tyrod sucks...nice try .....I am saying he's not a franchise QB and I don 't believe we'll win a SB with him...he's a bridge QB...nothing more, nothing less.....And coming from you, it's classic hypocrisy....we all remember your meltdown on BBMB ...how after a certain game last year, you went on a rant about how TT was not the guy, how you had finally reached your limit and couldn't defend him anymore....do you think we all forgot ?.....laughable.....it would seem that out of either of us, you're the one who actually, at one point, said that TT sucked...not I....

I remember what you think of as my "meltdown" right after the Steelers game, yes.

 

 I made very sure to word that entire thread carefully. I was composed, calm and deliberate.

 

The gist of the post was that Taylor wasn't the guy FOR US because of the way our team was being run philosophically with Rex and how our defenses under Rex (who I'd assumed would still be around this season) would need a top 5 QB.

 

And since I thought Rex would be back, I wasn't remotely willing to put up with another inevitable losing season just to keep Taylor. I'm a Bills fan. Once Taylor's not a Bill he's "just another guy" pretty quickly for me.

 

In that thread, I even said in that Taylor would start and probably be successful to some degree with another team, he just wasn't good enough for us. And Taylor still isn't good enough to carry a team with a bad defense to the playoffs. My stance there hasn't changed, though I do think Taylor's gotten better and is making strides this year.

 

Meltdown?

 

Too funny.

Edited November 6, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

This is going to get a really warm response, I can tell

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/04/stats-wizard-tyrod-taylor-or-ben-roethlisberger-no-seriously/

 

 Tyrod Taylor or Ben Roethlisberger? No, seriously ...

[BringBackFlutie]

10 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I remember what you think of as my "meltdown" right after the Steelers game, yes.

 

 I made very sure to word that entire thread carefully. I was composed, calm and deliberate.

 

The gist of the post was that Taylor wasn't the guy FOR US because of the way our team was being run philosophically with Rex and how our defenses under Rex (who I'd assumed would still be around this season) would need a top 5 QB.

 

And since I thought Rex would be back, I wasn't remotely willing to put up with another inevitable losing season just to keep Taylor. I'm a Bills fan. Once Taylor's not a Bill he's "just another guy" pretty quickly for me.

 

In that thread, I even said in that Taylor would start and probably be successful to some degree with another team, he just wasn't good enough for us. And Taylor still isn't good enough to carry a team with a bad defense to the playoffs. My stance there hasn't changed, though I do think Taylor's gotten better and is making strides this year.

 

Meltdown?

 

Too funny.

 

It's pretty clear to me that tyrod is making a lot of strides.  Awareness to take advantage of a free play?  None of our QBs have done that in 15 yrs, and he didn't do it until Thursday.  Running the no huddle and making checks at the line and taking the offense over himself?  Never seen that from him.  Stepping up in the pocket and throwing even as it's collapsing?  I mean, you'd have to be blind not to see that he's still growing, and in the positive direction.  He may never be an elite QB, but he's far from finished showing us what he can do.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Dilly Dilly   ...  for the guy who placates the king 

[Iron Maiden]

8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I remember what you think of as my "meltdown" right after the Steelers game, yes.

 

 I made very sure to word that entire thread carefully. I was composed, calm and deliberate.

 

The gist of the post was that Taylor wasn't the guy FOR US because of the way our team was being run philosophically with Rex and how our defenses under Rex (who I'd assumed would still be around this season) would need a top 5 QB.

 

And since I thought Rex would be back, I wasn't remotely willing to put up with another inevitable losing season just to keep Taylor. I'm a Bills fan. Once Taylor's not a Bill he's "just another guy" pretty quickly for me.

 

In that thread, I even said in that Taylor would start and probably be successful to some degree with another team, he just wasn't good enough for us. And Taylor still isn't good enough to carry a team with a bad defense to the playoffs. My stance there hasn't changed, though I do think Taylor's gotten better and is making strides this year.

 

Meltdown?

 

Too funny.

 

So, because of that post, should you be lumped in the " Taylor Sucks " crowd ? ....See how that works ?.....I'm saying exactly the same thing...TT is not good enough...he doesn't suck, but he's not the guy for the Bills....

[BarleyNY]

19 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

 

So, because of that post, should you be lumped in the " Taylor Sucks " crowd ? ....See how that works ?.....I'm saying exactly the same thing...TT is not good enough...he doesn't suck, but he's not the guy for the Bills....

 

Yup.  TT is one of the 32 best NFL QBs on the planet, but he’s not good enough to help a team win a championship.  Sure, keep him next season while you get his replacement up to speed, but an upgrade needs found. 

[BuffaloFan68]

The only way I want Tyrod on this team next year is if he is second or third string.  He is not a good QB.  Anyone that thinks Tyrod is a franchise QB does not know what a good QB looks like.  Then again Castillo thinks DuCasse is starting material - This is a big part of our problem. 

Go Bills!!!!!  

 

[section122]

11 hours ago, Iron Maiden said:

 

Except I've never said Tyrod sucks...nice try .....I am saying he's not a franchise QB and I don 't believe we'll win a SB with him...

 

Can I get your list of Franchise guys?  I ask simply because I bet you would be surprised how many "franchise guys" he is playing better than.  So no trickery on my part, I'm upfront with my intentions.  Please list your guys that can get it done/

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Yup.  TT is one of the 32 best NFL QBs on the planet, but he’s not good enough to help a team win a championship.  Sure, keep him next season while you get his replacement up to speed, but an upgrade needs found. 

 

Same question to you.  Who is good enough to win a super bowl with and what qualifying factors put them in that group and leave Taylor out?  

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This is going to get a really warm response, I can tell

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/04/stats-wizard-tyrod-taylor-or-ben-roethlisberger-no-seriously/

 

 Tyrod Taylor or Ben Roethlisberger? No, seriously ...

 

Bills fans are going to be the last fans on the Tyrod bandwagon.  Too many years of being jaded to realize that we are actually getting pretty good qb play.  In the mess that was Thursday, Tyrod was a bright spot.  He looked bad against Cincy and Carolina no argument although Carolina was gameplan more than performance imo.  Cincy was a poorly played game by him and I think Marvin Lewis might have his number as he stunk against Cincy last year too.  I can only come up with a couple of guys (Brady, Wentz, Brees, I'm sure there are a couple more) that haven't had a stinker yet this year.

 

Seeing Eli trumped in this thread really drives home the fact people aren't paying attention to the rest of the league.

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, BuffaloFan68 said:

The only way I want Tyrod on this team next year is if he is second or third string.  He is not a good QB.  Anyone that thinks Tyrod is a franchise QB does not know what a good QB looks like.  Then again Castillo thinks DuCasse is starting material - This is a big part of our problem. 

Go Bills!!!!!  

 

What is your plan to replace Tyrod?

Draft a rookie and most likely suck next year? Serious Question as I am not attacking you.

If they get a rookie QB, I can almost guarantee the Bills will be taking a step back next year, in terms of overall record.

Tyrod isn't great but it is not easy to replace an average starting QB.

There is a reason why mediocre/average QBS make tons of money. Teams are desperate and it is so hard to find a top 10 QB

 

[xRUSHx]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

What is your plan to replace Tyrod?

Draft a rookie and most likely suck next year? Serious Question as I am not attacking you.

If they get a rookie QB, I can almost guarantee the Bills will be taking a step back next year, in terms of overall record.

Tyrod isn't great but it is not easy to replace an average starting QB.

There is a reason why mediocre/average QBS make tons of money. Teams are desperate and it is so hard to find a top 10 QB

 

IMO Fans want a top drafted rookie for that chance at a franchise worthy QB, will we take a step back maybe but maybe not look at Watson breaking records before hurt among other rookies that have had real good rookie seasons so you opinion on the step back is entirely yours because many think IMO it will make a brighter future with a franchise worthy QB  as well as a legit shot at a better season year 1.

 

You say it's not easy to replace a average QB with a average QB, the same was said when Fitz was here and now here we are in the exact same position and same talk, a starting QB not good enough for a playoff run but good enough to squeeze a few wins while they overpay for this QB that money could be used elswhere.

Forever 7-9 baby

Edited November 6, 2017 by xRUSHx

[Alphadawg7]

23 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

IMO Fans want a top drafted rookie for that chance at a franchise worthy QB, will we take a step back maybe but maybe not look at Watson breaking records before hurt among other rookies that have had real good rookie seasons so you opinion on the step back is entirely yours because many think it will make a brighter future as well as a legit shot at a better season.

 

You say it's not easy to replace a average QB with a average QB, the same was said when Fitz was here and now here we are in the exact same position and same talk, a starting QB not good enough for a playoff run but good enough to squeeze a few wins.

Forever 7-9 baby

 

1. Outside the very rare and few "ELITE" QB's, the term "Franchise QB" is significantly impacted by the situation said "Franchise" QB is in, coaching, system, team around him, etc.  For example, there are a ton of QB's in the NFL now and in the past who were labeled "Franchise" QB's when they were able to perform well in the right situation.  Some of them established, some of them up and coming, some of them previously seen as Journeyman.  The word "Franchise" is about as meaningless as the stat Passing Yards in really understanding the value of the QB.
   1. Tyrod has not been in a good situation here playing with mostly bad coaching, a slew of injuries, a weak group of WR's due to trades and injuries, 3 OC's in 3 seasons, constantly changing personnel to throw to, and a poor pass blocking OL.  Yet, he has a winning record, Bills score a lot under his lead, he has a terrific TD:INT ratio, and makes plays with his legs few QB's ever in the NFL could make.  
2. At NO POINT was Fitz ever an "average" QB here in Buffalo.  The fan love affair with him was so ridiculous and it all started after passing for 4 TD's again Balt in week 4, even though we lost because of...wait for it...his Interceptions.  He then had a 4TD game against Cincy, which he had 2 INT's in first half until BOTH starting DB's got hurt and he was able to make a 2nd half comeback.  
   1. He rose to this false state of good after week 4, yet over the rest of the season he only threw for more than 1 TD twice, and outside the Cincy game he literally averaged exactly 1 TD per game in the other 11 games over that stretch.  Yet all anyone talked about was Balt and Cincy, games where he threw 8 TD's but also 4 INT's.
3. Tyrod is by far a better and more effective QB than Fitz ever was here in Buffalo, and its not close.  FitzCrapTrick was terrible here and the only feather in his cap was that he was better than JP Loserman and Trentative.

Tyrod came into this season with lots of long term question marks, valid ones too, especially about seeing and using both middle of the field better and read progressions.  So far this year, he has shown growth in both of those areas and is proving himself to be a worthy NFL starting QB.  He has NOT fully secured his future here yet IMO, but I think he's on a trajectory right now to definitely be the starter here next year and allow the FO more options come draft time in terms of the QB position.  And if he continues to get better with his weapons healthy and a new toy with KB, we could see this team playing in the playoffs and I think QB moves way down the priority list next year for the FO.  

Edited November 6, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[BillsFan130]

19 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

IMO Fans want a top drafted rookie for that chance at a franchise worthy QB, will we take a step back maybe but maybe not look at Watson breaking records before hurt among other rookies that have had real good rookie seasons so you opinion on the step back is entirely yours because many think IMO it will make a brighter future with a franchise worthy QB  as well as a legit shot at a better season year 1.

 

You say it's not easy to replace a average QB with a average QB, the same was said when Fitz was here and now here we are in the exact same position and same talk, a starting QB not good enough for a playoff run but good enough to squeeze a few wins while they overpay for this QB that money could be used elswhere.

Forever 7-9 baby

I never once said not too draft a QB.

The original post was he wants Tyrod gone next year.

That would be a mistake in my opinion.

Keep him and draft a QB in the first round.

And I will stick by saying it will be not be easy to find an upgrade over him.

Do they need to try? For sure.

But don't get rid of him, unless they want to tank.

Maybe they should sign Thad Lewis though right?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

It is day 912 of TT as the Bills starter.

 

Have we come to a consensus yet? 

Edited November 6, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[xRUSHx]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

1. Outside the very rare and few "ELITE" QB's, the term "Franchise QB" is significantly impacted by the situation said "Franchise" QB is in, coaching, system, team around him, etc.  For example, there are a ton of QB's in the NFL now and in the past who were labeled "Franchise" QB's when they were able to perform well in the right situation.  Some of them established, some of them up and coming, some of them previously seen as Journeyman.  The word "Franchise" is about as meaningless as the stat Passing Yards in really understanding the value of the QB.
   1. Tyrod has not been in a good situation here playing with mostly bad coaching, a slew of injuries, a weak group of WR's due to trades and injuries, 3 OC's in 3 seasons, constantly changing personnel to throw to, and a poor pass blocking OL.  Yet, he has a winning record, Bills score a lot under his lead, he has a terrific TD:INT ratio, and makes plays with his legs few QB's ever in the NFL could make.  
2. At NO POINT was Fitz ever an "average" QB here in Buffalo.  The fan love affair with him was so ridiculous and it all started after passing for 4 TD's again Balt in week 4, even though we lost because of...wait for it...his Interceptions.  He then had a 4TD game against Cincy, which he had 3 INT's in first half until BOTH starting DB's got hurt and he was able to make a 2nd half comeback.  
   1. He rose to this false state of good after week 4, yet over the rest of the season he only threw for more than 1 TD twice, and outside the Cincy game he literally averaged exactly 1 TD per game in the other 11 games over that stretch.
3. Tyrod is by far a better and more effective QB than Fitz ever was here in Buffalo, and its not close.  FitzCrapTrick was terrible here and the only feather in his cap was that he was better than JP Loserman and Trentative.

Tyrod came into this season with lots of long term question marks, valid ones too, especially about seeing and using both middle of the field better and read progressions.  So far this year, he has shown growth in both of those areas and is proving himself to be a worthy NFL starting QB.  He has NOT fully secured his future here yet IMO, but I think he's on a trajectory right now to definitely be the starter here next year and allow the FO more options come draft time in terms of the QB position.  And if he continues to get better with his weapons healthy and a new toy with KB, we could see this team playing in the playoffs and I think QB moves way down the priority list next year for the FO.  

It would be real nice to see Tyrod step into that roll of being a QB worth keeping but after this last game all I see is teams using the Baltimore game plan of stacking the box and making him be a QB. It works well and puts Tyrod in a class lower then Fitz IMO. Sure he made a few good throws but Fitz got some good throws at times well. Sorry man but I just don't agree I don't see Tyrod as much of a improvement over Fitz they both are just not good enough and it takes us to the same exact place of watching other teams in the playoffs.

[section122]

17 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

IMO Fans want a top drafted rookie for that chance at a franchise worthy QB, will we take a step back maybe but maybe not look at Watson breaking records before hurt among other rookies that have had real good rookie seasons so you opinion on the step back is entirely yours because many think it will make a brighter future as well as a legit shot at a better season.

 

You say it's not easy to replace a average QB with a average QB, the same was said when Fitz was here and now here we are in the exact same position and same talk, a starting QB not good enough for a playoff run but good enough to squeeze a few wins. 7-9 baby

 

Before I type my response  I want to say that I don't mind competition for Tyrod in the form of a high pick but think that rookie should have to beat out Tyrod for the spot.  Listening to people drone on for Peterman and I can't even imagine what it would be like listening to the cries for the high pick ready or not.  That said:

 

1.  Why isn't Tyrod good enough for a playoff run?  Just last year Tannehil and Matt Moore took a team to the playoffs.  Certainly you know TT is better than them.  Andy Dalton has taken teams to the playoffs multiple years.  Tyrod is better than him.  It's a team game.  Until there is a team stop using team success against TT.  What was your expectation through 8 games this year?  I won't go through your posting history but I'll bet it wasn't 5-3.  Judge Tyrod on how Tyrod plays not whether or not the team wins.

 

2.  If a rookie qb came in and put up 47 tds to 12 ints we should all be pumped.  However that is what Tyrod did and he still doesn't measure up.  A young qb the first game he struggles (which is inevitable) will be massacred by fans as a bust.  How many years does your rookie get?  1? 2? 3?  Tyrod is in his 3rd year starting and improved each year.  I will bet though you made up your mind year 1 and haven't budged.

 

3.  Dennison gonna develop the qb?  I put 2 losses directly at his feet.  The Jets and Panthers game plans were atrocious.  Worse yet was the lack of adjustments.  This is the guy who is going to develop the young guy?  

 

Upthread I asked for guys people would designate as a "franchise guy" I'd be interested to see your list.  I think you would be surprised at how few "franchise guys" there are in the league but please do list them out.

[xRUSHx]

19 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

I never once said not too draft a QB.

The original post was he wants Tyrod gone next year.

That would be a mistake in my opinion.

Keep him and draft a QB in the first round.

And I will stick by saying it will be not be easy to find an upgrade over him.

Do they need to try? For sure.

But don't get rid of him, unless they want to tank.

Maybe they should sign Thad Lewis though right?

I said the Thad thing for giggles. 

I am glad your wanting a QB drafted this team needs to keep trying to upgrade at QB and keep trying to land a franchise worthy QB via the draft.

 

As for keeping Tyrod I would rather them draft a QB to sit year 1, dump Tyrod to save money and start Peterman I just do not see any fall off with the change, just my opinion on it.

Edited November 6, 2017 by xRUSHx

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

It would be real nice to see Tyrod step into that roll of being a QB worth keeping but after this last game all I see is teams using the Baltimore game plan of stacking the box and making him be a QB. It works well and puts Tyrod in a class lower then Fitz IMO. Sure he made a few good throws but Fitz got some good throws at times well. Sorry man but I just don't agree I don't see Tyrod as much of a improvement over Fitz they both are just not good enough and it takes us to the same exact place of watching other teams in the playoffs.

 

All good...but there is a reason Fitz changes teams faster than the players change their underwear.  A high turnover QB who is only good when he gets "Hot" and a long history of not getting "Hot" nearly often enough to counter his cold or choke games doesn't tend to stick around long for teams.  Fitz is a great backup QB, but terribly unreliable as a starter.  

 

I bet you if you polled every team in the NFL on which QB they would take as their starter...Tyrod today or Fitz when he was a Bill, I bet it would overwhelmingly be Tyrod.  

[xRUSHx]

18 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Before I type my response  I want to say that I don't mind competition for Tyrod in the form of a high pick but think that rookie should have to beat out Tyrod for the spot.  Listening to people drone on for Peterman and I can't even imagine what it would be like listening to the cries for the high pick ready or not.  That said:

 

1.  Why isn't Tyrod good enough for a playoff run?  Just last year Tannehil and Matt Moore took a team to the playoffs.  Certainly you know TT is better than them.  Andy Dalton has taken teams to the playoffs multiple years.  Tyrod is better than him.  It's a team game.  Until there is a team stop using team success against TT.  What was your expectation through 8 games this year?  I won't go through your posting history but I'll bet it wasn't 5-3.  Judge Tyrod on how Tyrod plays not whether or not the team wins.

 

2.  If a rookie qb came in and put up 47 tds to 12 ints we should all be pumped.  However that is what Tyrod did and he still doesn't measure up.  A young qb the first game he struggles (which is inevitable) will be massacred by fans as a bust.  How many years does your rookie get?  1? 2? 3?  Tyrod is in his 3rd year starting and improved each year.  I will bet though you made up your mind year 1 and haven't budged.

 

3.  Dennison gonna develop the qb?  I put 2 losses directly at his feet.  The Jets and Panthers game plans were atrocious.  Worse yet was the lack of adjustments.  This is the guy who is going to develop the young guy?  

 

Upthread I asked for guys people would designate as a "franchise guy" I'd be interested to see your list.  I think you would be surprised at how few "franchise guys" there are in the league but please do list them out.

I put those loses at Tyrods feet he is the leader of the offense in this QB driven league. This is Tyrods 3rd OC and here we are again having a OC trashing his own system to dumb it down for Tyrod to try and move the offense. Now some fans want him fired when they should look at the QB like they did in Chicago after Cutler had 5 OCs.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

All good...but there is a reason Fitz changes teams faster than the players change their underwear.  A high turnover QB who is only good when he gets "Hot" and a long history of not getting "Hot" nearly often enough to counter his cold or choke games doesn't tend to stick around long for teams.  Fitz is a great backup QB, but terribly unreliable as a starter.  

 

I bet you if you polled every team in the NFL on which QB they would take as their starter...Tyrod today or Fitz when he was a Bill, I bet it would overwhelmingly be Tyrod.  

Dude I agree  Tyrod is a better QB then Fitz but he is still in the same not good enough class wishing for everyone else to be best in the league to compensate for his not good enough. IMO neither will get you to the playoffs.

 

Funny you said get hot and made me wonder the last time we seen Tyrod get on a hot streak, I mean man the guy is so not hot, ever, just saying.

Edited November 6, 2017 by xRUSHx