Tyrod is a franchise QB

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Do the 20 yard out of bounds attempts count? Hes good for a few of those every game. Taylor hardly ever puts his WRs in a position to succeed. Jared Goff seems to have no problem dropping 51 points on the board with Watkins and Woods, but somehow they weren't good enough  to play here. Jordan Matthews had no problem catching TDs and putting up WR 1/2 numbers With Vick/Foles/Wentz, but here he's an overrated bum getting outperformed by Marquise Goodwin. I wonder what everyone is going to say when Benjamin puts up the two worst seasons of his career...

 

So you're saying Taylor's still our starter in 2018?

 

Interesting... was that a slip? You certainly seem like a poster who thinks he's about to be replaced

[transplantbillsfan]

Interesting. I got a notification that Thurm responded to me an hour ago.

 

I came here eager to read what he'd respond with. I expected some futile attempt to argue against facts. I hoped he'd just admit he's been mistaken for the last year and a half.

 

Instead, I find no post.

 

 

I can only guess Thurm typed up a response arguing against Truth, but realized facts are hard to argue with so rather than admitting he was mistaken, he's hiding somewhere.

 

Well, thanks to the new format of the board, even deleted posts remain in notifications they're responding to.

 

So Thurm, I see you and I accept this as you finally admitting you were wrong about this whole deep middle third thing

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, grb said:

 

OK, lottery tickets : Your odds of winning the lottery on a single ticket is one in 175 million. Say I'm sitting up on a cloud overhead and decide "That jmc12290 has led a blameless life. I think I'll increase his chance of winning to one in 87.5 million"  How much better off do you think you'd be? How much gratitude should I expect? Attached is the passing charts of all quarterbacks. In Week 9 three quarterbacks completed a single pass to the deep middle. You follow quarterbacks like Cousins or Stafford or Prescott and they may have one deep middle completion in five games. Remember, this subject came from Thurman insisting it was a critical flaw in Taylor's game. Given it has almost zero important to anyone's (and everyone's) game, how critical a flaw can it be?

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass

 

 

 For the eight millionth time, I'm not talking only about the deep middle third. It's also the intermediate middle third. As constantly happens here someone is again twisting and changing what I said, setting up a straw man and then shooting their own creation down.

 

It's both, not one or the other. The deep and intermediate middle third. Together.

 

But fine, let's only look at the area you point out, GRB, the deep middle third. I was fascinated to find that there were only three guys with completions to the deep middle third of the field, but I found out you were right.

 

The three guys who had completions to the deep middle third in Week 9:

 

1) Alex Smith

2) Prescott

3) Beathard

4) Goff (TD)

5) Brees (TD)

6) Brissett (TD)

7) Maybe Mariota (TD), but it's hard to say whether this is 20 yards long and thus intermediate or 21 yards long and deep. 

 

Wait, is that three?

 

There were six and possibly seven guys (depends on what you call Mariota) completing balls to the deep middle third, including 3 (and possibly four if you include Mariota's) TDs. Six or seven major chunk plays including three or four TDs. Yes, it is important. And yet I'm not just talking about the deep middle, but the intermediate middle as well, and neither of us has looked at that here.

 

I'm also not talking only about completions. Attempts there are also important, because if they come close, they make the safeties respect that area.

 

The issue isn't so much whether they completed them. It's whether they tried them. Completing is the best outcome of course, but even attempting consistently means teams have to respect your willingness to go there, they need to move the safeties to more neutral positions, etc. 

 

 

Quick, point out where I insist it's a "critical flaw," as you say. 

 

As often happens, people pump up the verbiage in desperation, generally when their point isn't very good. It's a flaw, yes. It's important, as are pretty much all flaws and strengths. Critical? Please. That's two ways you're spinning my point like crazy.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

 

 

  3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Interesting. I got a notification that Thurm responded to me an hour ago.

 

I came here eager to read what he'd respond with. I expected some futile attempt to argue against facts. I hoped he'd just admit he's been mistaken for the last year and a half.

 

Instead, I find no post.

 

 

I can only guess Thurm typed up a response arguing against Truth, but realized facts are hard to argue with so rather than admitting he was mistaken, he's hiding somewhere.

 

Well, thanks to the new format of the board, even deleted posts remain in notifications they're responding to.

 

So Thurm, I see you and I accept this as you finally admitting you were wrong about this whole deep middle third thing 

 

 

Folks, anyone see an obsession developing here? Or is it already well-developed and kinda pathetic? Trannie's responding to something that's not even there ... because it has my name on it, then guessing I might have said I'm in fear of his logic. Pretty sad.

 

Honestly, I do sometimes start to respond to Trannie and point out the problems in his posts and then realize that those faults're already shining like beacons and I don't need to bother. Reasonable people will see them, and that's who I try to talk to. I don't do this only with him, I try to do it a lot. Like, "This was fun to write, but am I pointing out things that everyone who read the post already noticed?" A lot of times I am, and these days I try to shut up more often and that results in more non-posts and deletions.

 

This was one of those times.

 

But now that I realize the depth of his fascination, should I start replying a word or two to him and then deleting regularly? It seems to make him feel good. What do you guys think?

Edited November 10, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Cut the crap with the deep middle obsession, Thurm.

 

Go look at the passing charts over at NFL Next Gen stats.  Anyone can easily see the REALITY that NFL QBs rarely throw to your deep middle 1/3rd of the field.

 

According to NFL Next Gen Stats...

 

Attempts to the DEEP MIDDLE THIRD OF THE FIELD (20+ yards)

Tom Brady- 15 out of 309 attempts or 4.8% of his attempts

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tom-brady/BRA371156/season

Russell Wilson- 10 out of 303 attempts or 3.3% of his attempts

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/russell-wilson/WIL777781/season

Dak Prescott- 4 out of 259 attempts or 1.5%% of his attempts

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/dak-prescott/PRE285723/season

Alex Smith- 9 out of 293 attempts or 3% of his attempts

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/alex-smith/SMI031126/season

Big Ben- 11 out of 275 attempts or 4% of his attempts

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/season

Carson Wentz- 10 out of 291 attempts or 3.4% of his attempts

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/carson-wentz/WEN615770/season

Kirk Cousins- 5 out of 268 attempts or 1.9% of his attempts

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/kirk-cousins/COU709400/season

Philip Rivers-6 out of 286 attempts or 2% of his attempts

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/philip-rivers/RIV651634/season

 

Now, Tyrod has 1 attempt to the deep middle of the field, according to Next Gen Stats, but for some weird reason, whereas all the above QBs have every single game they played charted, Taylor only has 7/8.  I don't know why, but they've excluded the Raiders game.  That mean's Taylor's percentage of total passes to the deep middle is 0.5%.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tyrod-taylor/TAY764868/season

 

 

QBs very very rarely throw to the deep middle third that you're so obsessed with talking about.  It's an irrelevant discussion that you keep bringing up. 

 

No one cares about the deep middle.

 

 

 

Good grief. Seriously, that's your argument? Good lord.

You yet again ignore that I'm talking about ... let me repeat it again, because this you if anyone should have this by heart by now ... the deep and intermediate middle third of the field.

 

Not just the deep middle third. The deep and intermediate middle third.

 

 

 

But let's put that aside ... that's your argument about the deep middle third?

 

That Brady goes there nearly ten times more frequently than Tyrod (4.8% vs. 0.5%!!!! That's supposed to make your case? That Russell Wilson goes there six times more frequently than Tyrod? Dak Prescott three times more frequently? Alex Smith six times more frequently? Big Ben eight times more frequently? Wentz almost seven times more frequently? Cousins almost four times more frequently? And Rivers four times more frequently?

 

Those aren't my numbers, they're yours, right in a post that's apparently supposed to help your side of the argument. Dude, what were you thinking?

 

And it's actually even worse than that. You said the Oakland game wasn't there in Tyrod's stats, so I went and checked on it. Tyrod didn't have one throw to the deep middle third, not one. So his percentage would drop even further when that game is included.

 

 

 

Good grief. Thanks for your support, I guess. When someone throws up a blizzard of numbers people sometimes get confused. Very much worth pointing out that your numbers support my argument extremely well.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Good grief. Seriously, that's your argument? Good lord.

You yet again ignore that I'm talking about ... let me repeat it again, because this you if anyone should have this by heart by now ... the deep and intermediate middle third of the field.

 

Not just the deep middle third. The deep and intermediate middle third.

 

 

 

But let's put that aside ... that's your argument about the deep middle third?

 

That Brady goes there nearly ten times more frequently than Tyrod (4.8% vs. 0.5%!!!! That's supposed to make your case? That Russell Wilson goes there six times more frequently than Tyrod? Dak Prescott three times more frequently? Alex Smith six times more frequently? Big Ben eight times more frequently? Wentz almost seven times more frequently? Cousins almost four times more frequently? And Rivers four times more frequently?

 

Those aren't my numbers, they're yours, right in a post that's apparently supposed to help your side of the argument. Dude, what were you thinking?

 

And it's actually even worse than that. You said the Oakland game wasn't there, so I went and checked on it. Tyrod didn't have one throw to the deep middle third, not one. So his percentage would drop even further when that game is included, which I won't bother to do.

 

 

 

Good grief. Thanks for your support, I guess.

 

 

Taylor doesn't have problems throwing to the intermediate middle third period  He has 110.4 rating to the intermediate middle third this season.  He threw 5 completions there just last week.  As for the deep middle.  Yeah, he doesn't throw there often.  No QB does.  He was however throwing there when Clay was healthy.  Right now I don't think they have many routes there with Clay out.

 

 

[vincec]

On 11/8/2017 at 12:01 PM, Kelly the Dog said:

Well I just read through all 24 pages and I think this argument is settled!! 

Lol. Exactly.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 Right now I don't think they have many routes there with Clay out.

 

Correct.  O'Leary isn't fast enough to go there.  O'Leary is a short intermediate chain mover, but a sure handed one.  I rather hope with Clay back they find a way to utilise them both in the passing game because they have different strengths IMO.  

[QB Bills]

The Anti-Tyrod crowd won't be satisfied until he becomes 6'4, white and slow.

 

The bias is strong with these fans.

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Correct.  O'Leary isn't fast enough to go there.  O'Leary is a short intermediate chain mover, but a sure handed one.  I rather hope with Clay back they find a way to utilise them both in the passing game because they have different strengths IMO.  

O'Leary is a nothing player. Not a difference maker in the least. The lack of receiving skill they trotted out on Thursday was just sad. 

 

His incredible brain fart last Tuesday has barely even been discussed. That was a game killer. 

[vincec]

40 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

The Anti-Tyrod crowd won't be satisfied until he becomes 6'4, white and slow.

 

The bias is strong with these fans.

O'Leary is a nothing player. Not a difference maker in the least. The lack of receiving skill they trotted out on Thursday was just sad. 

 

His incredible brain fart last Tuesday has barely even been discussed. That was a game killer. 

Great. Another racist post.

 

I guess O’Leary isn’t good because he’s not black right? We all know they are superior athletes.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

41 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

The Anti-Tyrod crowd won't be satisfied until he becomes 6'4, white and slow.

 

The bias is strong with these fans.

O'Leary is a nothing player. Not a difference maker in the least. The lack of receiving skill they trotted out on Thursday was just sad. 

 

His incredible brain fart last Tuesday has barely even been discussed. That was a game killer. 

 

And there we have it. :rolleyes:

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

#SP

 

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Interesting. I got a notification that Thurm responded to me an hour ago.

 

I came here eager to read what he'd respond with. I expected some futile attempt to argue against facts. I hoped he'd just admit he's been mistaken for the last year and a half.

 

Instead, I find no post.

 

Notification good sir could mean that he gave toy a Reputation point.  

 

1. Like
2. Thank You
3. Smiley Face
4. Sad Face 
5. Confused Face

[Royale with Cheese]

9 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Interesting. I got a notification that Thurm responded to me an hour ago.

 

I came here eager to read what he'd respond with. I expected some futile attempt to argue against facts. I hoped he'd just admit he's been mistaken for the last year and a half.

 

Instead, I find no post.

 

 

I can only guess Thurm typed up a response arguing against Truth, but realized facts are hard to argue with so rather than admitting he was mistaken, he's hiding somewhere.

 

Well, thanks to the new format of the board, even deleted posts remain in notifications they're responding to.

 

So Thurm, I see you and I accept this as you finally admitting you were wrong about this whole deep middle third thing

 

Damn Trans....this forum is extremely important to you isn't it?

[Kelly the Dog]

4 hours ago, vincec said:

Great. Another racist post.

 

I guess O’Leary isn’t good because he’s not black right? We all know they are superior athletes.

One word: Jason Sehorn.

[BringBackOrton]

47 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Damn Trans....this forum is extremely important to you isn't it?

-100 on him being the first meltdown in 2018.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

-100 on him being the first meltdown in 2018.

 

He loves him some Tyrod Taylor.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He loves him some Tyrod Taylor.

you're too kind. 

[Kelly the Dog]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Good grief. Seriously, that's your argument? Good lord.

You yet again ignore that I'm talking about ... let me repeat it again, because this you if anyone should have this by heart by now ... the deep and intermediate middle third of the field.

 

Not just the deep middle third. The deep and intermediate middle third.

 

 

 

But let's put that aside ... that's your argument about the deep middle third?

 

That Brady goes there nearly ten times more frequently than Tyrod (4.8% vs. 0.5%!!!! That's supposed to make your case? That Russell Wilson goes there six times more frequently than Tyrod? Dak Prescott three times more frequently? Alex Smith six times more frequently? Big Ben eight times more frequently? Wentz almost seven times more frequently? Cousins almost four times more frequently? And Rivers four times more frequently?

 

Those aren't my numbers, they're yours, right in a post that's apparently supposed to help your side of the argument. Dude, what were you thinking?

 

And it's actually even worse than that. You said the Oakland game wasn't there in Tyrod's stats, so I went and checked on it. Tyrod didn't have one throw to the deep middle third, not one. So his percentage would drop even further when that game is included.

 

 

 

Good grief. Thanks for your support, I guess. When someone throws up a blizzard of numbers people sometimes get confused. Very much worth pointing out that your numbers support my argument extremely well.

 

 

 

Get a cell.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Good grief. Seriously, that's your argument? Good lord.

You yet again ignore that I'm talking about ... let me repeat it again, because this you if anyone should have this by heart by now ... the deep and intermediate middle third of the field.

 

Not just the deep middle third. The deep and intermediate middle third.

 

 

 

But let's put that aside ... that's your argument about the deep middle third?

 

That Brady goes there nearly ten times more frequently than Tyrod (4.8% vs. 0.5%!!!! That's supposed to make your case? That Russell Wilson goes there six times more frequently than Tyrod? Dak Prescott three times more frequently? Alex Smith six times more frequently? Big Ben eight times more frequently? Wentz almost seven times more frequently? Cousins almost four times more frequently? And Rivers four times more frequently?

 

Those aren't my numbers, they're yours, right in a post that's apparently supposed to help your side of the argument. Dude, what were you thinking?

 

And it's actually even worse than that. You said the Oakland game wasn't there in Tyrod's stats, so I went and checked on it. Tyrod didn't have one throw to the deep middle third, not one. So his percentage would drop even further when that game is included.

 

 

 

Good grief. Thanks for your support, I guess. When someone throws up a blizzard of numbers people sometimes get confused. Very much worth pointing out that your numbers support my argument extremely well.

 

 

 

Like I thought you would, you cling to a false argument.

 

Too bad you don't read because all these arguments have been addressed and debunked. I'll just copy and paste some stuff.

 

Brady is the highest of highs... and even he doesn't crack 5% of all of his throws to the deep middle of the field.

 

Yeah, Brady's thrown to the deep middle 14 more times than Taylor on 100 more charted attempts.

 

How about Rivers who's thrown to the deep middle just 5 more times than Taylor on 77 more charted attempts?

 

Or Cousins who's thrown to the deep middle just 4 more times than Taylor on 59 more charted attempts?

 

Or Dak who's thrown to the deep middle just 3 more times than Taylor on 50 more charted attempts?

 

It's idiotic that you really believe there's really some significant difference between 1/209, 6/286, 5/268, or 4/259.

 

 I already know the intermediate middle third was a problem for Taylor, you'll notice I even directly stated that and said you and I would never have this issue if you stocked just that. Yes, intermediate middle third was a problem for Taylor. It really isn't much of one anymore.

 

Your problem is that you lump the deep middle third in there. And now I think it's kind of funny that it's like you're letting the deep middle third ride on the back of the intermediate middle third just because it's convenient for you.

 

Section122 had a great response to this play on language you're doing here on page 24 and I'm just gonna copy and paste it:

 

I like how you used the English language there.  Very impressive.  

 

By saying double, quadruple, etc.. you make it seem like a huge difference.  Instead of saying 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, or even at most 14 more throws you used the multiplier which makes the difference seem much greater than it is.  Then you picked the most extreme example of 4.8 to .5 nicely ignoring that 3 of the guys are within 1.5% and even your extreme outlier is only 4.3% more.  Then you pull 1/20 or 1/200.  4.3% better odds would be the difference between 1/20 or 1.86/20.  

 

I'll put it to you another way.  Your "vast difference" between .5% and 4.8% means that Taylor would need to have attempted 12 total throws to be at 5%.  So 11 more throws over his 236 attempts would make him the leader in the category.  As Transplant pointed out though it isn't a throw qbs make often as 11 total throws would be more than everyone on your list save for Brady.  The likely GOAT QB throwing to the likely GOAT TE.  Shocker that they throw that more than anyone else in the league..."

5 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Notification good sir could mean that he gave toy a Reputation point.  

 

1. Like
2. Thank You
3. Smiley Face
4. Sad Face 
5. Confused Face

 

Except that the notification distinguishes between the 2. It says "reacted to," not "quoted you" in your notifications.

 

So... there's that

[Marty McFly]

6 hours ago, QB Bills said:

The Anti-Tyrod crowd won't be satisfied until he becomes 6'4, white and slow.

 

The bias is strong with these fans.

O'Leary is a nothing player. Not a difference maker in the least. The lack of receiving skill they trotted out on Thursday was just sad. 

 

His incredible brain fart last Tuesday has barely even been discussed. That was a game killer. 

 

That gets a pass tho. Usually reliable on routes with sure hands. I don't get the o Leary hate. Gets open on the field, makes catches just had a costly fumble. Should get better.