transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 13 hours ago, HappyDays said: So now Tyrod checks down too much, huh? These narratives are cute. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/alex/2017/2017-alex-midseason-report ALEX is a stat which measures how far past the 3rd down marker the QB throws the ball on average. From 2015-2017 Tyrod’s average rank is 13th. Other QBs that rank below average (16th) in that stat this year include: Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers, Dak Prescott, Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, Case Keenum, Jared Goff. Ready for a real shocker? Drew Brees is the reigning checkdown king as he ranks 36th in this stat this year. That’s not a typo. Only Mike Glennon and Mitch Trubisky rank lower. This is a really nice find, Hap. It's just insane how bad our offense this year has been on first and second down. It's just so friggin predictable based on whatever formation we line up in. And yet, Taylor has having his best year so far in converting those third downs even though they're usually third and long on average. 9 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: You don't wear down a defense calling three runs and a punt..... Anyone too remember the Tampa game after the fumble late in the fourth. Again we ran it three times and even on 3rd and 7. Yes a first down (back elude/broke two tackles) but if they failed again would have been 6 points and TB with the ball (just like Atlanta). Forgot about that. The offensive playcalling has just been so overwhelmingly bad far too often.
THEHARDTRUTH Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 21 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said: First year head coach has us at 6-5 tied for a wild card with what amounts to a rebuild season. Yeah, let's get him out of here. I dont know about you but I was expecting 19-0 with a 50 point average margin of victory. FIRE EVERYBODY!!!
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 9 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: above are your words. 11 games in to his rookie season and already you're thinking he may not last?? that in itself is premature and I totally disagree. as for taylor and rico, my thoughts have been documented and we are in agreement there. You disagree that McDermott might not last? So you think he's going to be our head coach forever? You believe he's untouchable? You believe that if we do fire Dennison and this conservative "hold on for dear life to your lead and let the defense seal the victory" carries on into next year with a new OC, indicating that it's really and largely McDermotts approach, that it might not get him in some serious trouble as we start to lose games? 2nd year Head Coaches are fired all the time in the NFL nowadays.
EasternOHBillsFan Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 Can you seriously not tell our offense is limited by Tyrod and the offensive line's abilities??? This whole "blame Dennison and the staff" BS is getting very old. How many coaches are our QBs going to get fired???? Enough. 1
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 9 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: So, you really really like him, or are you disturbed by his coaching. Tough to be both. And you have yet to answer how it was an obvious downgrade in practice. I'm sorry, do you really think that someone has to like absolutely everything about a coach or a player that they like? Is that what you believe? Well, that's just disturbing... but that doesn't mean I don't like you Yes, it disturbed me. That doesn't mean that I don't still like Mcdermott.
billsredneck1 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, Air it out Fitzy said: Transplant Tyrod excuse thread take 20 back in the day of bbmb ej threads, tranny did the same thing. i thought maybe he had come around but maybe not. i will agree that i don't have any more love for rico than he does but tyrod is just not a qb that any oc can build a game or team around. lynn tried to do it last year and did have some results and while i'm sure rex didn't help things with twin sperm rob, it just wasn't gonna happen with tt and it still ain't. i will root for tyrod to have a monster game this week and pray we hit the post season, but this week will be the ultimate test on tt. we all know the pats will stack and bring the heat in the middle and right side and make tyrod a qb...like we ain't heard that before. they will keep everything in front of them and kill the long ball chance. ironically this is also the best possible game plan for us defensively. bust up the middle...move some guys around and stunt and have hughes or a blitz from the end and hit brady hard...keeping everything they do in front of us and short.( hoping yarborough gets plenty of snaps) it will be...or should be the same plan for each side. it will just depend on execution. granted we don't have brady but, we will see what tt is made of. if he puts his head down and takes the 10yard sacks or is constantly checking down, it will be enough 3 and outs for the pats to pull away. i think the mcbeane team should stay but the minute i see rico look to favor tolbert (assuming he's playing) over cadet, he should be fired with castiilo the day after week 17. it's put up or shut up time. one key would also be to put shady out wide and let him fly down the sideline. it's time to sack up and make a statement. i have zero faith in rico, but will root for this team no matter. a win means 10-6 and screw the tiebreakers. Edited November 30, 2017 by billsredneck1 1
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: And way more shotgun. How about some handoffs from shotgun? We go under center and we are almost certainly going to hand the ball off and get stuffed... I-formation and you can practically bet your house on it. And before anyone says "only with Taylor" - Peterman ran 25 plays 13 were in the shotgun and ALL were passing plays. 12 were under center and 8 were handoffs. 5 were stuffed for 2 yards or less. 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I do think they have found it really hard to stick to their "win now and win later" philosophy. If they had been clear it was about winning later fewer people would be moaning about them not building an offense to fit Tyrod. They would be building an offense for the long term and making Tyrod fit that in a transitional year. But if they are serious about the "winning now" part... which at times it has felt like they have been then they needed to do more to adjust the shape of the hole so that Tyrod fits. It's their straddling both sides of the fence that has confused people. Very true 9 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: I would typically agree with that assessment, except these QB's, in this system. All I asked him is how he knew it was a mistake based on practice, and he has yet to answer the question. Then in this thread he says I really, really like McD, but it others says he is disturbed by his coaching. Cant be both What question do you want me to answer? You're sniffing for something that's pretty obvious. Peterman was not ready. We've heard rumblings and rumors over the last month or so that she needed to take a lot more strides and didn't look great in practice. We've also heard the rumblings in the rumors that Denison was the main push her to get Peter men on the field because he could execute his offense. If the latter part is true, I'm not that all worried and about McDermott. Why do I know it was a mistake based on practice? I don't... 100%. Obviously I don't sit in practice. Do you? Let's just call it a very educated guess, partially based on what we saw in the Chargers game Edited November 30, 2017 by transplantbillsfan
billsredneck1 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: How about some handoffs from shotgun? We go under center and we are almost certainly going to hand the ball off and get stuffed... I-formation and you can practically bet your house on it. And before anyone says "only with Taylor" - Peterman ran 25 plays 13 were in the shotgun and ALL were passing plays. 12 were under center and 8 were handoffs. 5 were stuffed for 2 yards or less. Very true i think with tt's skill set, why not work out of the shotgun? i think on running plays ,it gives a sec for shady to find a hole and on passing/read option plays it gives tyrod a second to read and evaluate. i cannot see any negative in working out of the shotgun. with tt under center and a rush coming. he's gotta drop and look through progressions....which isn't his strongest skill, then decide and more often than not to....well you know. i think we should be in the shotgun always. 1
WildBills Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 6 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: still hurts doesn't it. let me ask you this. if and I say if they finish with a winning record, above .500 (which would be better than the teams with those players you're complaining about losing) and make the playoffs, you still going to complain? or will you be satisfied with that and realize letting go of those players wasn't as bad as it may of seemed? I sense you'll first say that no way they will have a winning record and make the playoffs and then if they don't you'll not only feel you were right but come back with the I told you so? either way, I realize there was reason to rid of those players and know it was part of the process going forward so I have accepted that and look at those that don't as doing nothing more than complaining. Oh, to the contrary. It was definitely as bad as it seemed. Every one of those GM's are laughing at Beane.
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 11 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Jones has caught everything thrown his was this past month. He overthrew ZJ twice. Remember this - No one was discussing this until this thread was posted. The bomb to Jones in the EZ that hit him in his left hand was overthrown and is a throw you're trying to use to point out how inadequate Taylor was? Wow. Just wow At least pick a throw we can all agree on like the O'Leary completion that gave him no opportunity for YAC. As for cherry picking what now must just be a single pass to Jones on your mind: Here's something tweeted the other day by @NFLResearch: Bills WR Zay Jones has 2 TD in his last 3 games, and Tyrod Taylor has a 126.4 passer rating when targeting Jones in that spanFor context, Jones didn’t score a single TD in his first 7 games, and Taylor had a 28.8 passer rating when targeting Jones over that span
transplantbillsfan Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: Yes he caught an easy one too going out of bounds and still thought he was in college and didn't tap the second foot. It was a lazy play that I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but was nonetheless a rookie mistake. Oh yeah... forgot about that one... that was on 3rd down... so of course Taylor gets the blame for the punt, right? 11 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Blame the rookie for a poor throw by a 7th season pro. 95% and the Bills would have defeated the Chargers had Tyrod started. Wow... you're kinda like a petulant child with this, Shady. You mad? That absolutely was NOT a poor throw by Taylor. Toe tapping is routine for NFL WRs and that particular toe tap was one Jones had plenty of time and space to complete. Would have been a 3rd down conversion but wasn't because Jones didn't do something most NFL WRs practice consistently.
Thurman#1 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 Wait, you mean that when we're ahead, that the Bills - a team widely known to have intended to feature the run game - ran a lot to burn clock? And won the game? Holy smokes, this is clearly an anti-Tyrod conspiracy and bad play-calling. 1
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 3 hours ago, billsredneck1 said: i think with tt's skill set, why not work out of the shotgun? i think on running plays ,it gives a sec for shady to find a hole and on passing/read option plays it gives tyrod a second to read and evaluate. i cannot see any negative in working out of the shotgun. with tt under center and a rush coming. he's gotta drop and look through progressions....which isn't his strongest skill, then decide and more often than not to....well you know. i think we should be in the shotgun always. The absolute foundation of the zone stretch offense is based on the Quarterback under centre. There is some truth to the fact that Tyrod and Shady in recent years have had more success out of the gun but you don't hire a steak chef and then make him cook fish all the time. If the criticism is an under centre based offense wastes our talent then the question is why McDermott hired Dennison. 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: That absolutely was NOT a poor throw by Taylor. Toe tapping is routine for NFL WRs and that particular toe tap was one Jones had plenty of time and space to complete. Would have been a 3rd down conversion but wasn't because Jones didn't do something most NFL WRs practice consistently. Put it this way.... you have a much better case on that one than the throw down the sideline. I thought Zay should have dragged his toe in bit of a rookie error.
Thurman#1 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 21 hours ago, HappyDays said: So now Tyrod checks down too much, huh? These narratives are cute. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/alex/2017/2017-alex-midseason-report ALEX is a stat which measures how far past the 3rd down marker the QB throws the ball on average. From 2015-2017 Tyrod’s average rank is 13th. Other QBs that rank below average (16th) in that stat this year include: Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers, Dak Prescott, Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, Case Keenum, Jared Goff. Ready for a real shocker? Drew Brees is the reigning checkdown king as he ranks 36th in this stat this year. That’s not a typo. Only Mike Glennon and Mitch Trubisky rank lower. You're spinning a bit here, Happy. Tyrod doesn't just rank "below average (16th)" this year. He's 29th. That's well past "below average" into poor. 27 of the 38 QBs who qualify have an average length of throw of at least to the sticks. Only 11 of the 38 average below the length required for a first down. Tyrod is one of those eleven. This problem of throwing short so very often even in situations where it didn't make sense hasn't been traditionally identified as a problem for Tyrod. It's really only started to be mentioned as a problem this year. The ALEX data you linked to here shows why. In Tyrod's first year in Buffalo he was rated really high in ALEX, 2nd in the NFL, averaging a throw +4.5 yards beyond the sticks. That dropped last year to +2.3 which is still really excellent. This year people have been talking about how he has so often thrown short of the sticks on third down and the data backs it up. He's 29th in the league at -0.1. So yeah, if you average those three years together he comes off pretty well, but that's not how he's playing now. Why? Dunno is really the only answer. Could be he's less aggressive this year. Could be the playbook encourages it. Could be nobody is open enough for him to let it loose downfield. We can't know for sure. The article points out he's throwing a lot to McCoy on these plays, the safety valve, but why? In any case, it's now obvious that the people who've been saying that he'd been throwing short were correct. Edited November 30, 2017 by Thurman#1
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 I don't think the throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down is a Tyrod career problem. It has been more of an issue this year and it was a PARTICULAR problem against the Saints when he did it 4 times. 2 of which he had obvious open receivers down the football field. That one game doesn't define his career though. There are bigger Tyrod issues than throwing short on 3rd down.
Thurman#1 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think the throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down is a Tyrod career problem. It has been more of an issue this year and it was a PARTICULAR problem against the Saints when he did it 4 times. 2 of which he had obvious open receivers down the football field. That one game doesn't define his career though. There are bigger Tyrod issues than throwing short on 3rd down. Agreed.
JM57 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 11 hours ago, jmc12290 said: That's uh wrong. Top 8 in points with the Ravens in 2014. It got him another shot at HC, and he won a Superbowl. He's hamstrung by the QB, as many OC's in Buffalo have been before. He hasn't been a visionary, but he hasn't been terrible. Ah yes I remember the juggernaut Ravens offense of 2014 well. ....oh wait.
Thurman#1 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: And yet, Taylor has having his best year so far in converting those third downs even though they're usually third and long on average. The short ones are the ones he's converting. 10th in the league when they're 1 or 2 yards, 14th when they're 3 or 4 yards and 17th when longer. Edited November 30, 2017 by Thurman#1
BringBackOrton Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, JM57 said: Ah yes I remember the juggernaut Ravens offense of 2014 well. ....oh wait. You can't argue with the facts big fella. Hang in there.
Billsfan1972 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 Again I have no idea as to Tyrod's upside because of the lack of WR's and a game plan that thinks a 200 yard passing game is chucking the ball all over the place. I've started a few threads about the need to throw for 300 (minimum 250) and have that as the mindset from the get go. Only then will I make a decision on Taylor. If he fails I'll happily admit it, but all I see is a team hoping to win the field position game, grind out some longish drives and winding down the clock and thinking every game should be 20-14......
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