Official fire Rick Dennison thread

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

okay, I misquoted you, was not disgraceful you used, but disturbing

 

 

So, you really really like him, or are you disturbed by his coaching. Tough to be both.

 

And you have yet to answer how it was an obvious downgrade in practice.

Easy because no fifth round rookie in his first game could be better then any competent NFL qb who's started 40 games.

 

Never happened.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

Perhaps the HC and OC are more intimately familiar with the QB's limitations and try to make them less of a liability. Perhaps play-calling is aligned with the QB and what he's better at, particularly with a 2nd half lead. It isn't all on TT, because he's the best they've got, but perhaps TT is a square peg that won't fit into a round hole.

 

I do think they have found it really hard to stick to their "win now and win later" philosophy.  If they had been clear it was about winning later fewer people would be moaning about them not building an offense to fit Tyrod.  They would be building an offense for the long term and making Tyrod fit that in a transitional year.  But if they are serious about the "winning now" part... which at times it has felt like they have been then they needed to do more to adjust the shape of the hole so that Tyrod fits.  It's their straddling both sides of the fence that has confused people.  

[plenzmd1]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Easy because no fifth round rookie in his first game could be better then any competent NFL qb who's started 40 games.

 

Never happened.

I would typically agree with that assessment, except these QB's, in this system.

 

All I asked him is how he knew it was a mistake based on practice, and he has yet to answer the question.

 

Then in this thread he says I really, really like McD, but it others says he is disturbed by his coaching. Cant be both

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do think they have found it really hard to stick to their "win now and win later" philosophy.  If they had been clear it was about winning later fewer people would be moaning about them not building an offense to fit Tyrod.  They would be building an offense for the long term and making Tyrod fit that in a transitional year.  But if they are serious about the "winning now" part... which at times it has felt like they have been then they needed to do more to adjust the shape of the hole so that Tyrod fits.  It's their straddling both sides of the fence that has confused people.  

And Shady gone too.

 

Exactly who are they building for.

 

Know Darnold but no other college quarterbacks.

 

Are they old perfect for Dennison or just Peterman our 5th round saviour?

Edited November 29, 2017 by Billsfan1972

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And Shady gone too.

 

Exactly who are they building for.

 

Know Darnold but no other college quarterbacks.

 

Are they old perfect for Dennison or just Peterman our 5th round saviour?

 

I think they are trying to rebuild the whole roster. They didn't like what they inherited and they are trying to build their own squad. 

 

What they do in terms of QB I don't know but they will draft one. I have 4 currently with 1st round grades. I thought Peterman was a 7th/UDFA prospect so don't lump me in with the anyone but Tyrod crowd. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 Two passes that weren't catchable to Jones?

 

Is one of the passes you are talking about that near perfect pass that hit Jones in the hands right at the beginning of the end zone where Jones and then defied gravity as he pushed himself up from the ground? 

Jones has caught everything thrown his was this past month.   He overthrew ZJ twice. 

Remember this -  No one was discussing this until this thread was posted.  

 

 

45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea - 9.  I said 10 earlier but I hadn't had chance to see the final play of our final drive back on the all 22 at that point.  I thought from the broadcast angle it was a classic RPO with a stick route and the QB draw but looking at the all 22 the receivers never run routes it was a called QB run.  

GB - squabbling over 1 pass in the 2nd half when thrice as many were thrown early on.  Typical transplant.  

 

How many times did the Bills punt again in the 1st half?     

 

He doesn't pass we lose, he passes late he loses.   Find that happy median.  20 passes per half.  

they won't throw Shady out w/o a viable QB on the roster.  

 

imo

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Jones has caught everything thrown his was this past month.   He overthrew ZJ twice. 

Remember this -  No one was discussing this until this thread was posted.  

 

 

Yes he caught an easy one too going out of bounds and still thought he was in college and didn't tap the second foot.  It was a lazy play that I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but was nonetheless a rookie mistake.

[Wayne Arnold]

43 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Easy because no fifth round rookie in his first game could be better then any competent NFL qb who's started 40 games.

 

Never happened.

 

What about an incompetent NFL QB?

 

56 yards

[Billsfan1972]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think they are trying to rebuild the whole roster. They didn't like what they inherited and they are trying to build their own squad. 

 

What they do in terms of QB I don't know but they will draft one. I have 4 currently with 1st round grades. I thought Peterman was a 7th/UDFA prospect so don't lump me in with the anyone but Tyrod crowd. 

All the more reason you need an OC who'll adapt to the players, not force the players to adapt to his scheme.

 

How anyone uses the argument that Taylor doesn't fit the scheme further illustrates that Dennison should never have been hired as Taylor was the QB and they had no one to sign as a FA or trade for.

 

The sheer stupidity of that argument epitomizes the problems we see on offense.

[JohnC]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do think they have found it really hard to stick to their "win now and win later" philosophy.  If they had been clear it was about winning later fewer people would be moaning about them not building an offense to fit Tyrod.  They would be building an offense for the long term and making Tyrod fit that in a transitional year.  But if they are serious about the "winning now" part... which at times it has felt like they have been then they needed to do more to adjust the shape of the hole so that Tyrod fits.  It's their straddling both sides of the fence that has confused people.  

I don't understand why you are so perplexed with "the win now" or "later" juggling act that this regime is undertaking. The front office was completely remade with an  emphatic action of firing all of the scouting staff with new people. The new GM was a personal choice of the wrestling coach who is the most influential person in the football operation. In the first year half the roster has been turned over and the cleansing of Whaley's production is steadily being shipped out, as exhibited by the Watkins and Dareus deals. The emphasis certainly has been on acquiring additional picks, not shedding them. The Benjamin deal was an exception but it was a reasonable trade off. 

 

It's apparent to me that this regime is not satisfied with the qb situation. Many people assume that it will be addressed with a high pick that might include adding picks in a deal to move up to draft a preferred qb. The insertion of Peterman was a gamble that didn't work but it dramatically indicated how this staff views TT. 

 

The point that I'm making is that McDermott took over the job with the intention of extensively  revamping not only the roster but the cap structure. That's exactly what is being done. Just because he wants to remain competitive doesn't mean that everything has to be sold off all at once. I have long held that this is a three to four year project, starting with this year. Why would it be smart for McDermott to follow the Cleveland model of a total tear down that hasn't work?

 

No doubt there is a balancing act between winning now and rebuilding. As far as I'm concerned he is smartly and wisely walking the tightrope. I just don't see what the confusion is when it's obvious that this is a rebuilding endeavor. The Pegulas hired him for that challenging endeavor and he is doing it right in public for everyone to see. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes he caught an easy one too going out of bounds and still thought he was in college and didn't tap the second foot.  It was a lazy play that I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but was nonetheless a rookie mistake.

if the ball was better placed then he wouldn't have needed to make that rookie mistake.

 

How many pro's make that "rookie" mistake?   more that we'd like to believe 

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

if the ball was better placed then he wouldn't have needed to make that rookie mistake.

 

How many pro's make that "rookie" mistake?   more that we'd like to believe 

Yes blame tyrod again for a completion.  It was an easy catch that 95% of receivers easily tap the second foot.

 

Jones made a mistake.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Blame the rookie for a poor throw by a 7th season pro. 

 

95% and  the Bills would have defeated the Chargers had Tyrod started. 

[ctk232]

13 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

Not even through the first season and McDermott may not last is a topic?

Right? And even with this impressive study of our offensive play calling, I don't see how this relates to McDermott outside of the HC allowing the OC control over the offense.

 

Rico is calling the plays, McDermott is a defensively minded coach and is likely involved, but leaves play calling to the OC and staff. That to me rings as a Rico & co. shouldn't be brought back next year, and McDermott will be looking for other options. I do think the lack of trust in TT plays a factor into it, but our offensive play calling and percentages is all on Rico, imho. He's an old-school conservative system guy who never properly learned how to run an offense without HC oversight with calling plays.

 

The fact that we've done this well with this team and OC is objectively fairly impressive, but can't be sustainable beyond this year.

[blacklabel]

McDermott is here for the long haul. The Pegulas were blown away with his interview, his presentation, attention to detail, his philosophy, his plan to turn things around. He's going to get substantial time to get this team headed in the right direction.

 

As for Dennison, I mentioned in a different thread, I think he needs to be held to the same standards that McD holds his players to. They all gotta earn their spots, right? Well, I don't feel as though Dennison is doing enough to earn his spot and keep it through next season. This is his first year as a play-caller (IIRC) and he leaves a lot of us scratching our heads with his choices. So after the season, I would hope McD isn't too stubborn or too loyal to his assistants not to make a move in an effort to improve the team. Up until the sudden switch to Peterman, McD struck me as a "stay the course" kinda guy, a coach who wouldn't make big changes mid-season, but he did so that at least shows that he's willing to change things up if needed. 

[BobbyC81]

5 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

You mean the Shanahan and Kubrick offense? Never succeeded?

 

wheres the JLaw "Oh okay" gif when you need it?

 

What offense did Stanley Kubrick commit?

[WildBills]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Ragland and Seymour were not starters for us.

 

They are both now starting on better teams and they should/would have been starting for us. That's my point in believing in the competency of these guys so far. So far? I don't. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by WildBills

[JM57]

5 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

You mean the Shanahan and Kubrick offense? Never succeeded?

 

wheres the JLaw "Oh okay" gif when you need it?

The last time the Kubiak offense was good they had guys who were at the time, a top 10 QB, top 5 WR and top 5 RB. Without stars at those spots, the results are not glowing.  Even then, just because it WAS a good offensive scheme at one point does not mean it still IS a good offensive scheme. The game has passed this scheme by.

[SoCal Deek]

Dennison and Tyrod need to go together.  Every time I watch their Press Conferences I'm hard pressed to think of two guys with a greater LACK of urgency than those two.  It's little wonder the Offense looks like it does.

[MDH]

Not sure you can read too much into the way McDermott is coaching this team. The way to remain competitive when you don't have a lot of talent is Jauron ball. Play it close to the vest, don't turn the ball over and don't allow big plays on D. Do those things and you'll be in the vast majority of your games. When you don't have a lot of talent this can mask deficiencies. If you do it when you have more talent than your opponents you're simply keeping other teams in the game.

 

Let's see how McDermott coaches once he has some talent on the team, if he does the same thing then you may have a point. But the fact that he's doing it right now doesn't show us much, other than he knows how to get the most out of the guys he's got.

Edited November 29, 2017 by MDH