SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 44 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: The OP said what I've been saying all along. The Bills get a lead, and play run it till we punt.... It's a poor offensive philosophy by design and then people **** on Tyrod with the poor offensive numbers. I will say it again - the same happened with the Rex / Roman and Lynn's schemes. Quote McDermott might not last. 48 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Try actually reading the thread. The OP didn't say McDermott should be gone. might not last sure does look as if he's indicating a firing of McDermott.
Marty McFly Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Dennison coaching up our 1st round rookie QB. Really?? Blegh.
GunnerBill Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 41 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: What was it? 7 called passes in the 2nd half? The OP said what I've been saying all along. The Bills get a lead, and play run it till we punt.... It's a poor offensive philosophy by design and then people **** on Tyrod with the poor offensive numbers. What excuses? Tyrod is what he is. A solid stop gap QB. McDermott and Dennisons offense this year DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to take advantage of Taylors skill set and is an abomination compared to what we saw last year. The new guys like Vlad Ducasse. That tells you all you need to know about their judgement on offensive personnel. Try actually reading the thread. I think it was 10. 5 passes, 3 scrambles and 2 sacks. They are conservative with small leads, I don't doubt that, and I agree with you that it comes directly from the top in that regard. It is McDermott's philosophy as much as Dennison's. And it was McDermott's decision to bring in an offensive coordinator who isn't renowned for adapting to personnel but knows how to run a particular scheme effectively. Some of us said all offseason that the Dennison - Tyrod marriage was not a natural one when there were plenty of people arguing it was a perfect fit. And I never mentioned excuses. This thread is what it is. It's an attempt to deflect blame from Tyrod Taylor onto others. Now Tyrod is not the number 1 thing wrong with this offense. I believe that to be bottom of the barrel offensive line play, closely followed by a scheme that doesn't fit the personnel we have very comfortably. But Transplant is suggesting that not running a scheme to fit Tyrod could cost a 1st year HC and OC their job when they have already demonstrated multiple times and in multiple ways going back to the offseason that they do not see Tyrod as the guy. There is simply no way that McDermott and Dennison fall on their swords and the team somehow decides Tyrod is more important to them. It's impossible. Quite without the revealing commentary from Rob Ryan on SKY TV over here that heavily insinuated the ownership don't believe that Tyrod is the guy either. Now would could happen is they could release Tyrod he could go somewhere else and they could replace him with a worse Quarterback and then look very stupid. That might cost them in the long run. 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Other QBs that rank below average (16th) in that stat this year include: Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers, Dak Prescott, Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, Case Keenum, Jared Goff. Ready for a real shocker? Drew Brees is the reigning checkdown king as he ranks 36th in this stat this year. That’s not a typo. Only Mike Glennon and Mitch Trubisky rank lower. Design of their offense, that doesn't surprise me.
BringBackOrton Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: no matter who he has at QB: he/they is/are uber conservative on offense. Contrary to popular belief, the Bills pretty consistently do establish the pass early in games, it's just they don't stick with it once they get a lead because they want to run out the clock. This is why I want to bang my head against a wall with some people who adamantly argue that Taylor isn't a serious contributor to these wins and people who argue that any other QB who comes in will just automatically fix things and be better. It's like people don't bother watching games and just look at the box score in the end. Just look at passing in 1st half of the KC game vs passing in the 2nd half. 1st half15/24 for 121 yards and 1 TD 0 sacks 2 scrambles for 13 yards 0 passes called back on penalties 26 total passing plays for 134 total yards We went into the half up by 10 points: 13-3 2nd half4/5 for 62 yards 2 sacks minus 19 yards 2 scrambles for 12 yards 9 total passing plays for 55 total yards There's an ebb and flow to the conservative way McDermott and Dennison call their plays. In a game where we're behind, Taylor passes significantly more, in a game we're tied, Taylor passes less, in a 1 score game with the lead, even less, and in a 2 score game, we pass a lot less. The Bills went up by 2 scores (10 points) just under 3 minutes into the 2nd quarter. Up to that point, Taylor threw 16 passes in 27 plays. 59% passing rate. Then the Bills went up by 2 scores and on their next drive and he only threw 3 passes on 12 plays. 25% passing rate. Then the Chiefs kicked a FG and came within 1 score and the Bills got the ball back with less than 2 minutes and Taylor threw 6 passes in 7 plays to lead the team to a FG to go up by 10 points. 86% passing rate. Then 5 passes in the 2nd half. On the entire year, only 71 of Taylor's 308 passes this year have come when the Bills have been leading, but only 12 of those passes have come when this team has been up by 2 or more scores (9 points or more). There's only one other NFL QB who's thrown 4 times more total passes than number of passes from behind: Mithchell Trubisky with the head coach John Foxx, a notoriously conservative Head Coach. And before you just automatically point the finger at Trubisky, take a look at the Colts with Jacoby Brissett, who had thrown almost exactly as many passes from ahead as he has from behind. We've run 76 offensive plays up by 9 points or more. He's thrown the ball just 15.8% of the plays we've been up by that much. You just don't find other QBs with such a low %. We've run 688 total offensive plays... 612 have been with us trailing or tied or up by only one score. 296 of those plays have been passes. ( now I realize that there are also designed passing plays that are not reflected in those passes such as sacks and scrambles, but that's a lot more work than I'm willing to do at this moment ) When "it's a game," there's clearly a plan to throw the ball as Taylor actually throws the ball 48.4% of the time. Designed passes will be well above 50% and maybe close to 60% when you find all the sacks and scrambles that happened in those 612 plays when we were trailing, tied, or up by one score. When the Bills have a solid lead, he only throws it 15.8% of the friggin time! I understand that there are probably going to be some who point to how little faith our OC and HC have and Taylor and that this reflects that, but it really doesn't make much sense for a team as ineffective in the running game as we are (we had 16/26 runs by RBs against KC for gains of one yard or less) when you have a QB who will obviously protect the football and not turn it over. We are very likely going to have a new QB under center next season. I don't know why anyone would have any confidence in our OC (and even HC?) in terms of our approach to the games and how effective our QB would be. I believe more in our OC because he doesn't believe in Taylor than I would if he did. 1
HappyDays Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Design of their offense, that doesn't surprise me. The design of our offense is responsible for the drop from 2nd and 7th to 29th. We know Dennison is comservative, how many OCs draw up a run play on 3rd and 6 in the 1st quarter?
Billsfan1972 Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 15 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: I believe more in our OC because he doesn't believe in Taylor than I would if he did. How pathetic a post. His offense has never succeeded yet is so smart?
BringBackOrton Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Just now, Billsfan1972 said: How pathetic a post. His offense has never succeeded yet is so smart? You mean the Shanahan and Kubrick offense? Never succeeded? wheres the JLaw "Oh okay" gif when you need it?
GunnerBill Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The design of our offense is responsible for the drop from 2nd and 7th to 29th. We know Dennison is comservative, how many OCs draw up a run play on 3rd and 6 in the 1st quarter? It is partly responsible - yes, no debate there. I don't think it is as simple as "all on" Dennison has been my only point throughout. There are a myriad of factors at play. 3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: By the way, what did Rob attach say?.... Not that ownership has a clue what they are watching on the football field, but I'm still curious. "The powers that be there in Buffalo have constantly being trying to move on from Tyrod and I have no idea why." He can't be referring to the FO they have all been cleaned out since he was there. He could mean pantomime villan Russ Brandon of course but it sounded to me like he was referring to ownership. Edited November 29, 2017 by GunnerBill
Billsfan1972 Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: You mean the Shanahan and Kubrick offense? Never succeeded? wheres the JLaw "Oh okay" gif when you need it? Check Denver's offensive ratings the past 2 years with a great defense? Middling power with Manning calling the plays and lousy last year. Glowing results..... Edited November 29, 2017 by Billsfan1972
BringBackOrton Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said: Check Denver's offensive ratings the past 2 years with a great defense? Middling power with Manning calling the plays and lousy last year. Glowing results..... Kubiak isn't a successful offensive guy? are you trolling me?
Billsfan1972 Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 1 minute ago, jmc12290 said: Kubiak isn't a successful offensive guy? are you trolling me? Dennison was the oc. Are we talking about kubiak or Dennison? Who's trolling?
BringBackOrton Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 36 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Dennison was the oc. Are we talking about kubiak or Dennison? Who's trolling? You asked about his offense. His offense is the same offense Kubiak and Shanny ran.
ndirish1978 Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 I didn't bother to read the OP, the premise of McDermott being in any kind of trouble this year in and of itself is impossible
Watkins90 Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: no matter who he has at QB: he/they is/are uber conservative on offense. Contrary to popular belief, the Bills pretty consistently do establish the pass early in games, it's just they don't stick with it once they get a lead because they want to run out the clock. This is why I want to bang my head against a wall with some people who adamantly argue that Taylor isn't a serious contributor to these wins and people who argue that any other QB who comes in will just automatically fix things and be better. It's like people don't bother watching games and just look at the box score in the end. Just look at passing in 1st half of the KC game vs passing in the 2nd half. 1st half15/24 for 121 yards and 1 TD 0 sacks 2 scrambles for 13 yards 0 passes called back on penalties 26 total passing plays for 134 total yards We went into the half up by 10 points: 13-3 2nd half4/5 for 62 yards 2 sacks minus 19 yards 2 scrambles for 12 yards 9 total passing plays for 55 total yards There's an ebb and flow to the conservative way McDermott and Dennison call their plays. In a game where we're behind, Taylor passes significantly more, in a game we're tied, Taylor passes less, in a 1 score game with the lead, even less, and in a 2 score game, we pass a lot less. The Bills went up by 2 scores (10 points) just under 3 minutes into the 2nd quarter. Up to that point, Taylor threw 16 passes in 27 plays. 59% passing rate. Then the Bills went up by 2 scores and on their next drive and he only threw 3 passes on 12 plays. 25% passing rate. Then the Chiefs kicked a FG and came within 1 score and the Bills got the ball back with less than 2 minutes and Taylor threw 6 passes in 7 plays to lead the team to a FG to go up by 10 points. 86% passing rate. Then 5 passes in the 2nd half. On the entire year, only 71 of Taylor's 308 passes this year have come when the Bills have been leading, but only 12 of those passes have come when this team has been up by 2 or more scores (9 points or more). There's only one other NFL QB who's thrown 4 times more total passes than number of passes from behind: Mithchell Trubisky with the head coach John Foxx, a notoriously conservative Head Coach. And before you just automatically point the finger at Trubisky, take a look at the Colts with Jacoby Brissett, who had thrown almost exactly as many passes from ahead as he has from behind. We've run 76 offensive plays up by 9 points or more. He's thrown the ball just 15.8% of the plays we've been up by that much. You just don't find other QBs with such a low %. We've run 688 total offensive plays... 612 have been with us trailing or tied or up by only one score. 296 of those plays have been passes. ( now I realize that there are also designed passing plays that are not reflected in those passes such as sacks and scrambles, but that's a lot more work than I'm willing to do at this moment ) When "it's a game," there's clearly a plan to throw the ball as Taylor actually throws the ball 48.4% of the time. Designed passes will be well above 50% and maybe close to 60% when you find all the sacks and scrambles that happened in those 612 plays when we were trailing, tied, or up by one score. When the Bills have a solid lead, he only throws it 15.8% of the friggin time! I understand that there are probably going to be some who point to how little faith our OC and HC have and Taylor and that this reflects that, but it really doesn't make much sense for a team as ineffective in the running game as we are (we had 16/26 runs by RBs against KC for gains of one yard or less) when you have a QB who will obviously protect the football and not turn it over. We are very likely going to have a new QB under center next season. I don't know why anyone would have any confidence in our OC (and even HC?) in terms of our approach to the games and how effective our QB would be. Most teams run the ball when they are up two scores in the second half. Didn't everyone kill the Falcons last year for throwing too much in the second half of the Super Bowl which allowed the Pats time to get back in the game? I mean, we should probably throw a little more than we do when up by two scores, but that mostly just comes down to the offense being super obvious. LIke Dennison only throws the ball on third and long in the second half. It wouldn't be an issue if our rushing attack was better. While you might call it conservative, doesn't running the ball also wear down the defense? Aren't they trying to move the ball while also keep the clock running? I just don't by the assessment you are making. I'd like to see some other stats of other QBs, and how often they throw in the second half up two scores.
hemma Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Oh look. Another 'Because I love Tyrod Taylor' thread. 1
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 22 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: You asked about his offense. His offense is the same offense Kubiak and Shanny ran. No, it's based on Dennison's perception of Kubiak's offense. It may be a subtle difference, but it certainly is a difference. Also, is now a good time to point out that Kubiak was a QB and Dennison was a LB? No really, look back at those Broncos teams. Mike Shanahan was the OC, Gary Kubiak was a QB, and Rick Dennison was an ILB.
GunnerBill Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 We were not up two scores on Sunday. We were up 6 points and got the ball back in that final drive in good field position after stopping the Chiefs on 4th down. One pass play of 15-20 yards would have had us on the edge of FG range with a chance to make it a 2 score game and put the Chiefs away.
BringBackOrton Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: No, it's based on Dennison's perception of Kubiak's offense. It may be a subtle difference, but it certainly is a difference. Also, is now a good time to point out that Kubiak was a QB and Dennison was a LB? No really, look back at those Broncos teams. Mike Shanahan was the OC, Gary Kubiak was a QB, and Rick Dennison was an ILB. But clearly Dennison was running the offense the way Kubiak wanted all the years they were together.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: But clearly Dennison was running the offense the way Kubiak wanted all the years they were together. He was calling the plays, sometimes.
transplantbillsfan Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 9 hours ago, xRUSHx said: First season of the new staff and already they are all on the hot seat by some, what a suprise even though I called it in the off season when they brought Tyrod back because of the comparisons of Rex/Tyrod to McD/Tyrod. Over and over again all we heard was it is all on Rex and his D, Tyrod just needs this and needs that it is not Tyrod it is everyone else. Now boom here we go again fire everyone and bring back Tyrod with a new staff. Reminds me of when Mario was here being a cancer his last season. IMO if they build around Tyrod this groundhog day of new staffs will never end, it's like driving on a bridge with no exit. McD needs to get far away from Tyrod if he wants any chance to make this team better IMO. As for a conservative 2nd half IMO it is because Tyrod plays exactly like he was trained to do, play like a backup QB filling in for the starter. Be safe while protecting your stats, run it and hope the D gets the win. Baltimore trained him to do exactly what he is doing. Frank Reich when he was backup here he filled in nicely and got wins but when he went to the expansion team and became a full time starter he proved to not be good enough to be a full time starter and IMO Frank was a better QB then Tyrod Wait, are you actually saying that Taylor is calling the offensive plays in the second half? 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: We did not only call 5 passes in the 2nd half on Sunday. We only passed it 5 times. We did not only call 5 passes. Right. We called 9 passes. 26 passes called in the 1st half. 9 in the 2nd half.
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