TRADE: Kelvin Benjamin to Buffalo

[Kelly the Dog]

Really?

Not doubting this, just cannot recall ever hearing anything like this.. I also trust Beane and McD at this point, as Beane said, he knows Benjamin very well , was part of drafting him in 14 and feels he will be a great fit to the team and what they're building..

Yep. Said hes very blue collar. The players will love him. The coaches will love him. Etc.

[The Dean]

Watkins attitude is what got him traded. Just wasn't a team guy...he was a me guy. This is a team and Watkins didn't fit.

 

Honestly, I think that is rubbish.

 

The Bills didn't exercise the option, mostly because of his health concerns, IMO. Then when the New Regime took control, they evaluated contracts/assets/strengths & weaknesses, etc. The double trade (Watkins and Darby) gave them players, and picks, and worked in the direction of their plan. That's not to say I was a fan of each and every move, but at least in retrospect, it looks like they new what they were doing. Every move might not work perfectly, but I'd have to say, so far so good.

 

Several things happened during the season (Clay going down, Zay not making the impact perhaps expected of him, Matthews missing games, etc.) and WR became a big issue. One thing I like about the coaching staff, so far, is they are willing to make adjustments. Same thing might be true for the GM. Draft choices are assets, and the Bills are in good shape, with those. At this point, KB is a no-brainer deal, especially considering HC and GM are familiar, and comfortable with him.

 

I don't think there is any doubt Watkins is more talented than Benjamin. But Benjamin could be as productive for them, as Sammy (or close). Plus he was extended, which gives them the extra year at a reasonable price.

 

BADO makes a good point, as he usually does, saying Watkins and Tyrod had an established connection, and seems to be a better WR for Tyrod's strengths. But I'm not completely sure that can't he changed. Tyrod seems to be able to establish connections with WRs fairly quickly at times, as he did with Thompson a couple weeks ago. If Tyrod continues to roll, scramble and extend plays, he and that big body/jump ball capability of Benjamin could become something of a thing. "Obviously, this is best case scenario." M Marrone

[RyanC883]

such a great trade. Getting a top WR in here. Also, CB White gets to go against him in practice, could make White EVEN BETTER!!

[JTown]

I live in NC and at 2:30 pm today I jokingly asked a co-worker,who is a Panther fan, if he had heard the latest trade news and he replied something like Yeah Ajai to Philly. I said no...K. Benjamin to the Bills and he freaked before realizing I was joking. Imagine my surprise when I got home and seen the trade actually happened at 3:57. Holy $#@*!! I then sent him a text and he didn't believe me. Honest. True story. Unbelievable.

Edited November 1, 2017 by JTown

[RyanC883]

Do we know if KB is a team guy? Most of these wr's are divas. Some have said he had a bad attitude. Ive watched him play but wasnt aware of that. Hes not going to catch a lot of passes here, thats just the reality. Tyrod isnt that type of passer. Thats why i worry if he will want to stay here. Its why woods left too

 

he wasn't catching a ton from Cam this year. TT may throw the ball more with a guy like Benjamin available.

I live in NC and at 2:30 pm today I jokingly asked a co-worker,who is a Panther fan, if he had heard the latest trade news and he replied something like Yeah Ajai to Philly. I said no...K. Benjamin to the Bills and he freaked before realizing I was joking. Imagine my surprise when I got home and seen the trade actually happened at 3:57. Holy $#@*!! I then sent him a text and he didn't believe me. Honest. True story. Unbelievable.

 

if you are a panther fan, or Cam, you have to be like what the heck. who do i throw the ball to?

[Boatdrinks]

Watkins attitude is what got him traded. Just wasn't a team guy...he was a me guy. This is a team and Watkins didn't fit.

I'm not so sure. Many WRs have that kind of attitude but it works just fine. The money and injury factors were probably the biggest reasons. It didn't really materialize until a 2nd was offered. It doesn't appear as though there was any kind of clear cut plan to trade SW. It just sort of came together. The " attitude" stuff is overblown , and their interest in Bryant kind of cements that. Fans make a bigger deal of this than teams and players. It's mostly fans that were butt hurt over SW internet fiasco who project their personal feelings about Watkins as some sort of gospel about why he was traded.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

he wasn't catching a ton from Cam this year. TT may throw the ball more with a guy like Benjamin available.

 

 

if you are a panther fan, or Cam, you have to be like what the heck. who do i throw the ball to?

I think it was a bad trade for Panthers but I understand what they are doing. Funchess is pretty good and hes the big guy. They want to get speed guys like their two top picks this year McCaffrey and Samuel out in space.

[BillsfanAZ]

 

Honestly, I think that is rubbish.

 

The Bills didn't exercise the option, mostly because of his health concerns, IMO. Then when the New Regime took control, they evaluated contracts/assets/strengths & weaknesses, etc. The double trade (Watkins and Darby) gave them players, and picks, and worked in the direction of their plan. That's not to say I was a fan of each and every move, but at least in retrospect, it looks like they new what they were doing. Every move might not work perfectly, but I'd have to say, so far so good.

 

Several things happened during the season (Clay going down, Zay not making the impact perhaps expected of him, Matthews missing games, etc.) and WR became a big issue. One thing I like about the coaching staff, so far, is they are willing to make adjustments. Same thing might be true for the GM. Draft choices are assets, and the Bills are in good shape, with those. At this point, KB is a no-brainer deal, especially considering HC and GM are familiar, and comfortable with him.

 

I don't think there is any doubt Watkins is more talented than Benjamin. But Benjamin could be as productive for them, as Sammy (or close). Plus he was extended, which gives them the extra year at a reasonable price.

 

BADO makes a good point, as he usually does, saying Watkins and Tyrod had an established connection, and seems to be a better WR for Tyrod's strengths. But I'm not completely sure that can't he changed. Tyrod seems to be able to establish connections with WRs fairly quickly at times, as he did with Thompson a couple weeks ago. If Tyrod continues to roll, scramble and extend plays, he and that big body/jump ball capability of Benjamin could become something of a thing. "Obviously, this is best case scenario." M Marrone

 

How can you say it is complete rubbish that Watkins isnt a team guy when he complained in the media that he wasnt being targeted enough. He even admitted after being traded that he thought of himself before the team. He is doing it again as well.

 

How can you say that Watkins in more talented than Benjamin? They have almost the same production. Watkins is playing in a high production offense and he really isnt doing anything.

[LA Grant]

I think it was a bad trade for Panthers but I understand what they are doing. Funchess is pretty good and hes the big guy. They want to get speed guys like their two top picks this year McCaffrey and Samuel out in space.

 

This is exactly it. They knew they didn't want him going forward because he and Funchess were kind of getting in each other's way in terms of targets and development. Rather than exercise his option for 8 million next year, better to get something in return for him and settle the "X" or "WR1" position.

[The Dean]

 

How can you say it is complete rubbish that Watkins isnt a team guy when he complained in the media that he wasnt being targeted enough. He even admitted after being traded that he thought of himself before the team. He is doing it again as well.

 

How can you say that Watkins in more talented than Benjamin? They have almost the same production. Watkins is playing in a high production offense and he really isnt doing anything.

 

 

To the talent/production argument, it was kind of the point of the last part of my post. Talent at WR doesn't always equal production. WRs are at the mercy of the QB, scheme, etc. They don't get to throw to themselves. I believe most NFL talent evaluators would agree Watkins is the more physically talented, of the two, other than size. He is a better route runner, as well.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, you actually have to play to produce. Benjamin did miss a season with injury, but I think he is more physically resilient than Watkins, which helps Benjamin's production.

Edited November 1, 2017 by The Dean

[LA Grant]

 

Honestly, I think that is rubbish.

 

The Bills didn't exercise the option, mostly because of his health concerns, IMO. Then when the New Regime took control, they evaluated contracts/assets/strengths & weaknesses, etc. The double trade (Watkins and Darby) gave them players, and picks, and worked in the direction of their plan. That's not to say I was a fan of each and every move, but at least in retrospect, it looks like they new what they were doing. Every move might not work perfectly, but I'd have to say, so far so good.

 

Several things happened during the season (Clay going down, Zay not making the impact perhaps expected of him, Matthews missing games, etc.) and WR became a big issue. One thing I like about the coaching staff, so far, is they are willing to make adjustments. Same thing might be true for the GM. Draft choices are assets, and the Bills are in good shape, with those. At this point, KB is a no-brainer deal, especially considering HC and GM are familiar, and comfortable with him.

 

I don't think there is any doubt Watkins is more talented than Benjamin. But Benjamin could be as productive for them, as Sammy (or close). Plus he was extended, which gives them the extra year at a reasonable price.

 

BADO makes a good point, as he usually does, saying Watkins and Tyrod had an established connection, and seems to be a better WR for Tyrod's strengths. But I'm not completely sure that can't he changed. Tyrod seems to be able to establish connections with WRs fairly quickly at times, as he did with Thompson a couple weeks ago. If Tyrod continues to roll, scramble and extend plays, he and that big body/jump ball capability of Benjamin could become something of a thing. "Obviously, this is best case scenario." M Marrone

 

I pretty much agree with all of this, although I don't think the Watkins trade was mostly about the contract. I think McDermott and Beane are truly focused on "culture" as their year one goal.

 

If I were ranking the 3 main factors in the decision to deal Sammy.

 

1. Character/work ethic/attitude -- 'culture' stuff. We know that Sammy can be vocal if he's not getting targets. It's happening now in LA.

 

2. Contract -- I think if Sammy had two cheap years left on his rookie deal, they might think they could work with him. But they didn't have enough confidence that he would come around (to be fair, it's Sammy's 3rd or 4th coaching staff, depending on your count) and wouldn't be worth the money, so better to sell high.

 

3. Injury/production -- At the end of the day, is he on the field helping the team to win enough to make all of this other stuff worth it? Injuries aren't his "fault" but it's a factor.

 

The worst recipient of the deal was Tyrod, as you pointed out -- they were developing a chemistry and Tyrod's deep ball is stunningly accurate. Ideally, a QB would like to have a consistent group of receivers to develop a rapport with. Tyrod has shown the ability to develop relationships quickly, which I think is a testament to his commitment and work ethic, two things we've known were always strong with him.

 

For Deonte Thompson, though, they had an existing relationship -- Thompson and Tyrod worked together here before in training camp, and back in Baltimore, and I think they went to high school together or knew each other in HS... which is partly why I think Thompson could potentially replace some of the parts of Sammy's game. That said, even though he isn't as fast, Kelvin Benjamin was a reliable deep threat for Cam, so who knows.

Edited November 1, 2017 by LA Grant

[Boatdrinks]

To the talent/production argument, it was kind of the point of the last part of my post. Talent at WR doesn't always equal production. WRs are at the mercy of the QB, scheme, etc. They don't get to throw to themselves. I believe most NFL talent evaluators would agree Watkins is the more physically talented, of the two, other than size. He is a better route runner, as well.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, you actually have to play to produce. Benjamin did miss a season with injury, but I think he is more physically resilient than Watkins, which helps Benjamin's production.

I'd have to concur with this as well. I've watched just about all of every Rams game and Watkins has been getting open. Goff has a chemistry with Kupp and looks his way constantly even throwing to him when Watkins is open downfield. Fans like to look at box scores and arrive at conclusions that fulfill their personal grudges etc. The fact that the Bills inquired about Bryant shows that the attitude/culture whatever crap was far from the #1 factor in the Watkins trade .

Edited November 1, 2017 by Boatdrinks

[xRUSHx]

Wow what a steal, lovin it

[leonbus23]

 

An ice cold fridge stocked with Stone and Ballast Point.

Diego? Agreed!

[tsetsefly]

Hey if your QB likes to throw high and out of bounds like ours, what a better WR lineup than

 

Holmes 6'4

Benjamin 6'5

Matthews 6'3

Clay 6'3

 

Welcome to the TALL BOYZ CLUB CALVIN !

can we just nickname him Tyrod "Throw it up" Taylor, right now? 😄 Edited November 1, 2017 by tsetsefly

[Thurman#1]

Watkins attitude is what got him traded. Just wasn't a team guy...he was a me guy. This is a team and Watkins didn't fit.

 

 

 

 

Nonsense. Sammy's attitude was fine. Both guys are great locker room guys with injury concerns. Watkins more so, of course.

 

Assuming they franchised Watkins, though, his salary next year would have been twice what they'll pay Benjamin, That's much more likely the big factor.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Thurman#1

[The Dean]

 

How can you say it is complete rubbish that Watkins isnt a team guy when he complained in the media that he wasnt being targeted enough. He even admitted after being traded that he thought of himself before the team. He is doing it again as well.

 

 

 

 

I pretty much agree with all of this, although I don't think the Watkins trade was mostly about the contract. I think McDermott and Beane are truly focused on "culture" as their year one goal.

 

If I were ranking the 3 main factors in the decision to deal Sammy.

 

1. Character/work ethic/attitude -- 'culture' stuff. We know that Sammy can be vocal if he's not getting targets. It's happening now in LA.

 

2. Contract -- I think if Sammy had two cheap years left on his rookie deal, they might think they could work with him. But they didn't have enough confidence that he would come around (to be fair, it's Sammy's 3rd or 4th coaching staff, depending on your count) and wouldn't be worth the money, so better to sell high.

 

3. Injury/production -- At the end of the day, is he on the field helping the team to win enough to make all of this other stuff worth it? Injuries aren't his "fault" but it's a factor.

 

The worst recipient of the deal was Tyrod, as you pointed out -- they were developing a chemistry and Tyrod's deep ball is stunningly accurate. Ideally, a QB would like to have a consistent group of receivers to develop a rapport with. Tyrod has shown the ability to develop relationships quickly, which I think is a testament to his commitment and work ethic, two things we've known were always strong with him.

 

For Deonte Thompson, though, they had an existing relationship -- Thompson and Tyrod worked together here before in training camp, and back in Baltimore, and I think they went to high school together or knew each other in HS... which is partly why I think Thompson could potentially replace some of the parts of Sammy's game. That said, even though he isn't as fast, Kelvin Benjamin was a reliable deep threat for Cam, so who knows.

 

I forgot to address AZ's first point in my last post, but you did a good job. I don't believe I said the attitude factor was complete rubbish, just that it -presented as THE factor--was rubbish.

 

However, I would change the order of your considerations. I think if Sammy was signed through the 5th year and wasn't quite so fragile, his attitude wouldn't have been enough to get him traded. If these guys are going to be successful, they will at some point, have to deal with a productive player who occasionally goes off a little bit. Sammy isn't nearly the diva of many successful and coveted WRs.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

This is exactly it. They knew they didn't want him going forward because he and Funchess were kind of getting in each other's way in terms of targets and development. Rather than exercise his option for 8 million next year, better to get something in return for him and settle the "X" or "WR1" position.

 

 

The question is do Benjamin, Zay and Matthews get in each others way at all?

 

I don't think they complement each other as a group........neither Zay or Matthews ideally belongs outside the slot, IMO..........they were kinda' redundant to start with.....and on the outside Matthews hasn't been able to do anything downfield with Tyrod.

 

I think if Benjamin ever gets up to speed this season he is a notable upgrade from Matthews as a big play and redzone guy on the outside......so that's a gain.

 

But my guess is that they were hoping to buy cheap on T Pryor or Martavis Bryant.........faster guys who are also big targets........but couldn't strike a deal so Beane went with option C at the last minute.......less of a fit with Tyrod and more compensation in trade.......but still a huge enough target to be a potential big upgrade and not a FA-to-be like Pryor and not a serious problem child like Byrant.

[BillsSbSoon]

 

How can you say it is complete rubbish that Watkins isnt a team guy when he complained in the media that he wasnt being targeted enough. He even admitted after being traded that he thought of himself before the team. He is doing it again as well.

 

How can you say that Watkins in more talented than Benjamin? They have almost the same production. Watkins is playing in a high production offense and he really isnt doing anything.

Watkins is the more talented guy imo. Im ecstatic we got kb but hes also had the benefit of catching passes from a former league mvp

[LeGOATski]

Watkins is the more talented guy imo. Im ecstatic we got kb but hes also had the benefit of catching passes from a former league mvp

He's had the benefit of being 6'5"...

 

I think he'll do just fine catching passes from Taylor.