BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 Thats not relevant. Thats the point. It doesnt matter how they score!! Thats the design of the offense. The Bills run the ball by the goal line. The fact that they have just 15 offensive TDs in 7 games isnt good enough. How could it not be relevant? How could scoring way less by passing than the rest of the NFL and only being slightly above average compared to the rest of the NFL not matter? Those are the numbers you have to add to get our total TD's.
Fadingpain Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 I think our ceiling with Taylor is basically Alex Smith. He will win us a lot of games in the regular season but once we get in the playoffs where teams are better and can force him to stay in the pocket and beat him with his arm, we will be in trouble and exit quickly. If the goal is to simply make the playoffs year in and year out, then stick with Taylor. With the glut of high end draft talent we can get next year, a few saavy FA pickups and the good defense playing complement to Taylor's not turning the ball over mentality, we can win a lot of games. If it's to win the Super Bowl then we need to find someone better. Taylor isn't bad...he's actually pretty good when the defense isn't giving up 25 point a game like last year...he just has some limitations that will hinder us in some games when he is forced to carry the load. An almost perfect post in terms of matching what I might write on this topic. We should continue to field the best team possible every time we play. That means Tyrod for now, but we should keep an eye on always improving the team too. Beane confirmed today in his chat with Schopp and Bulldog that they are always looking to do that and even get excited when they are able to snatch a guy on waivers, if it was a guy they targeted and wanted. Always look down the road while keeping your eye on the upcoming game too. We should continue to aggressively pursue a QB better than Tyrod, and play that QB when he is ready. In the meantime, build up around Tyrod and make the most out of him while he is the QB.
grb Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) The Tyrod debate will get an answer this year. You can no longer say he doesnt have weapons or anyone to throw to. Hell have a good core of receivers in KB, JM and Zay as well as Clay when he returns and Shady out of the backfield. There is no question that should be enough for a QB to be effective. Id still like to see us draft someone next year but the reality is that this team can win games with what we have in Tyrod. The real battleground of the Great Tyrod Message Board War is over two things : (1) Where the Bills draft a quarterback. I've always assumed a first round QB is inevitable, regardless of how well Taylor plays. But with his good or bad performance the choice could either be a bundled deal to move up or possibly even a second round pick. Given the Bills' stockpile of draft picks, I doubt McBeane could opt not to use a high pick on a QB even if they even partially thought it unnecessary. I honestly think the pressure to do so would be a deciding factor. Beane has been willing to make unpopular choices, but the draft is his Fat Lady Singing moment. It will be pressure-squared then. (2) Taylor back in '18 as the presumptive starter. If TT continues to play at his recent level, I think he'll surely be back. The front office may have a bright shinny new toy in an early round QB pick, but will be very cautious about throwing him in the pool for fear he can't swim. Also, imagine the Bills winning plus-minus eleven games this year, dumping Taylor, and then taking a step back. What would be a Bills fan-style reaction to that? Lastly, there's the locker room to consider, where Taylor seems to get a great deal of respect. Of course Peterman is the wild card in this. Maybe he's a savior after all...... Edited November 1, 2017 by grb
stinky finger Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 The best option for everyone involved is to table this discussion until after this season concludes. Wise advice
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 Damn, how'd we lose to the Giants if the beginning and end of all things football is how good your QB is? You can win in this league without the best QB in the land...
HappyDays Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 How could it not be relevant? How could scoring way less by passing than the rest of the NFL and only being slightly above average compared to the rest of the NFL not matter? Those are the numbers you have to add to get our total TD's. Dont you always talk about yards? Tyrod has 1,343 passing yards and 175 rushing yards. The team outside of Tyrod has 697 rushing yards. He is almost doubling the rush yardage of the rest of the team with his passing yards alone, add in his rushing yards and its an even bigger difference. He also has 8 passing TDs and 1 rushing TD to the rest of rushing offenses 4 TDs. Hes also been doing this without starting level receivers. Now Matthews is fully healthy and we have a true #1. Lets see what happens.
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Dont you always talk about yards? Tyrod has 1,343 passing yards and 175 rushing yards. The team outside of Tyrod has 697 rushing yards. He is almost doubling the rush yardage of the rest of the team with his passing yards alone, add in his rushing yards and its an even bigger difference. He also has 8 passing TDs and 1 rushing TD to the rest of rushing offenses 4 TDs. Hes also been doing this without starting level receivers. Now Matthews is fully healthy and we have a true #1. Lets see what happens. Are you serious dude? We're 29th in passing yards and 8th in rushing yards. Comparing TT's passing yards to the teams' rushing totals is apples to orangutans to spaceships level of nonsense. Edited November 1, 2017 by jmc12290
HappyDays Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 Are you serious dude? We're 29th in passing yards and 8th in rushing yards. Comparing TT's passing yards to the teams' rushing totals is apples to orangutans to spaceships level of nonsense. Sure, that means the difference in yards is less lopsided for us than it is for most teams. But Tyrod like any other QB is still the primary factor in what our offense can do. You cant say were only scoring because of the run game, thats nonsense. There isnt a team in the league who actually relies on their run game more than their pass game to move the ball. Were tied for 20th in offense TDs per game, tied with Pittsburgh actually. Thats really not bad when you consider the receivers hes had. Last year before week 17 we were tied for 5th in that stat, again with Tyrod leading our offense. Im hoping that stat improves as the season goes on. If you count only the last 3 games every team has played we rank 9th in offense TDs per game so weve gotten substantially better since the beginning of the season.
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 Sure, that means the difference in yards is less lopsided for us than it is for most teams. But Tyrod like any other QB is still the primary factor in what our offense can do. You cant say were only scoring because of the run game, thats nonsense. There isnt a team in the league who actually relies on their run game more than their pass game to move the ball. Were tied for 20th in offense TDs per game, tied with Pittsburgh actually. Thats really not bad when you consider the receivers hes had. Last year before week 17 we were tied for 5th in that stat, again with Tyrod leading our offense. Im hoping that stat improves as the season goes on. If you count only the last 3 games every team has played we rank 9th in offense TDs per game so weve gotten substantially better since the beginning of the season. I didn't say that. There's lots of things I didn't say that are nonsense. 20th is still not good, although where's your link?
HappyDays Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 20th is still not good, although where's your link? Here: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/offensive-touchdowns-per-game And youre right it isnt good enough. I am optimistic it will get better because if you sort by Last 3 the Bills are tied for 9th (with 3 other teams). Weve been scoring more since the players talked to Dennison during the bye and adding Kelvin Benjamin should be a huge step forward starting with the Saints game.
billsfan89 Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 Barring a collapse in Tyrod's quality of play the rest of the season I think that the Bills are better off grooming Peterson and another young QB behind Tyrod over the next few years. The team has 5 premium picks possibly 6 if they get that comp pick. I wouldn't be opposed to one of those picks being used to draft a QB but they should use more than one of those picks to draft a QB. Trading multiple picks for a QB could be a waste of resources. Tyrod is a QB you can win with and the team will have various other needs going into the season. Why not use those picks to solidify the foundation of the roster around Tyrod and have 2 good young QB's behind him developing. Peterman and another young QB developing offer the team a lot of trade bait down the line too if Tyrod develops further. DT, DE, CB, LB, WR (depending on how Zay finishes and if Matthews resigns), and RG could all be urgent needs going into the off-season. LG, TE, and RB could also be positions where the team younger players at. If the team trades 3 or more premium picks for a trade up for a QB then the ability to address those other needs are compromised. The Bills have plenty of draft choices and a pretty good amount of cap space. Hopefully the manage those assets well and fill out the gaps that remain in the roster. A all in move for a QB could be very costly if they miss.
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Thats not relevant. Thats the point. It doesnt matter how they score!! Thats the design of the offense. The Bills run the ball by the goal line. The fact that they have just 15 offensive TDs in 7 games isnt good enough. If you can show me a correlation between passing TD ranks vs. rushing TD ranks impacting team records I will listen. If not, I dont care. Maybe there is a correlation? Got you fam. Average passing TD ranks of the 2016 AFC playoff teams: 14th Average rushing TD ranks of the 2016 AFC playoff teams: 14th Let's look at the NFC Average passing TD ranks of the 2016 NFC playoff teams: 10.5 rounded up to 11th Average rushing TD ranks of the 2016 NFC playoff teams: 16.5 rounded up to 17th So it looks like most teams in the playoffs either had above average rushing AND passing TD totals or just almost top 10 passing TD totals with below average rushing totals. Edited November 1, 2017 by jmc12290
reddogblitz Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 I think we should let the season play out and then decide. It's not even half over yet. We'll have the whole off season to kick this around.
LA Grant Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 If the Bills make the playoffs this year, you would be foolish to replace Tyrod. If they don't, then it depends on his performance and the offense's performance and you have to consider all of the factors -- but even then, my bet is that Tyrod's play will only improve over the second half of the year. I don't think he is headed toward regression or a month where he suddenly throws a ton of interceptions. Tyrod Taylor is a good quarterback. This is his third year of starting, and his third offensive coordinator. If someone we'd drafted like EJ Manuel had this kind of performance in his first three years starting, I feel like the fanbase would be over the moon to get him in the HoF already. But I think because Tyrod came as a free agent, and he won the job when he wasn't supposed to, people have just kind of assumed he doesn't have the potential to improve and become a franchise QB. He has improved facets of his game every year, with no continuity at receiver at any point due first to injuries, then a complete overhaul of the receivers. The complaining about Tyrod is tired and boring, and he keeps proving those armchair analysts wrong. First people were saying oh this is a run-first quarterback, he can scramble but that's it. Not the case. Then it was all about how he's gonna get hurt, he's gonna fumble. Nope. He can't throw over the middle. Check his breakdowns on PFF -- Tyrod is a good passer, folks. I think the Bills, with the draft capital they have, are in a great position to bolster the group they already have. This will probably never happen, but if they're going to trade up, I would actually rather they trade up for Shaqon Barkley, the insanely talented RB from Notre Dame. I know that sounds crazy, but I don't think there's any way he falls to the Bills, and even though I have HATED previous Bills drafts where they've taken running backs in the first round even though they already had a good starter... well, I wasn't hoping for the Bills to draft a corner this year either but Tre'Davious White was obviously worth it. A backfield with Barkley and McCoy alone would be enough to dominate -- and fits the style we want to run more with what we already have in personnel and strengthens it, as opposed to a rookie QB. I'd like the Bills to continue drafting QBs, but I don't think they need to go "all in" on somebody. You have the luxury of a good quarterback. Enjoy that, and work with him. Continue to tailor the offense to your personnel — Tyrod has one of the most accurate deep balls in the game, get him a downfield speedster for goodness sake. With Tyrod's speed and Shady McCoy, you have the kind of backfield where option plays would make a ton of sense -- feel free to play to their strengths! Barring a collapse in Tyrod's quality of play the rest of the season I think that the Bills are better off grooming Peterson and another young QB behind Tyrod over the next few years. The team has 5 premium picks possibly 6 if they get that comp pick. I wouldn't be opposed to one of those picks being used to draft a QB but they should use more than one of those picks to draft a QB .... The Bills have plenty of draft choices and a pretty good amount of cap space. Hopefully the manage those assets well and fill out the gaps that remain in the roster. A all in move for a QB could be very costly if they miss. I agree with this.
SaviorPeterman Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 I'm willing to bet that part of the reason Beane made this huge deal for Benjamin today is that they want to see what Taylor does the rest of the season with a full compliment of talent to work with, especially with Clay coming back in the next few weeks. So there will certainly be no more excuses and to his credit Taylor has been played as well as you can ask for the last two weeks at home especially orchestrating a comeback against the Bucs.
Fan in Chicago Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 If the Bills make the playoffs this year, you would be foolish to replace Tyrod. If they don't, then it depends on his performance and the offense's performance and you have to consider all of the factors -- but even then, my bet is that Tyrod's play will only improve over the second half of the year. I don't think he is headed toward regression or a month where he suddenly throws a ton of interceptions. I agree with this. I disagree. No matter how TT plays the rest of the season, we should draft another QB high. We have enough draft capital. No one will ever complain about an embarrassment of riches at the QB position.
ganesh Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 No Tyrod does not wear an "S" on his chest. He wears a "T" (which also stands for team) I think the Bills need to draft a QB but not use all of its ammunition to trade up. In a QB rich class (as everyone claims) putting out a 2nd rounder on a future QB is a good idea. Tyrod can be the bridge QB and if he does make it to the SB, then he will be our QB for a long time. If you don't even "try", how can we get a "result" I'm willing to bet that part of the reason Beane made this huge deal for Benjamin today is that they want to see what Taylor does the rest of the season with a full compliment of talent to work with, especially with Clay coming back in the next few weeks. So there will certainly be no more excuses and to his credit Taylor has been played as well as you can ask for the last two weeks at home especially orchestrating a comeback against the Bucs. Tyrod game ticks well, when the run game is going wild. When teams stop the run and put the onus on Tyrod to beat them, he has to show that he can do that. Having Benjamin and Clay in the huddle will help him to go for it. There will be games like the one against the Bengals and Panthers where our Run game was stuffed and they dared Tyrod to beat them. He has to show that he can do it.
Norcalbillsfan Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 I think our ceiling with Taylor is basically Alex Smith. He will win us a lot of games in the regular season but once we get in the playoffs where teams are better and can force him to stay in the pocket and beat him with his arm, we will be in trouble and exit quickly. If the goal is to simply make the playoffs year in and year out, then stick with Taylor. With the glut of high end draft talent we can get next year, a few saavy FA pickups and the good defense playing complement to Taylor's not turning the ball over mentality, we can win a lot of games. If it's to win the Super Bowl then we need to find someone better. Taylor isn't bad...he's actually pretty good when the defense isn't giving up 25 point a game like last year...he just has some limitations that will hinder us in some games when he is forced to carry the load. Totally agree with you. I actually like tyrods attitude and work ethic and hes obviously one of the most athletically gifted players in the nfl. But watching the years of the quality defenses stack the box and challenge him, and he's never won that battle ever. The steelers made us look like a flag football team last year, they stacked and begged tyrod to throw. But I'm not blaming all our problems last few seasons on tyrod. Just saying I don't know if I really believe he can carry us deep in playoffs with his arm. But that doesn't mean trade the sink in picks to reach on a qb. I like the management so far, I hope it continues.
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 Tyrod is a better then average starter and has been good for a while now. He got thrown under the bus last season because Rex blew chunks. The fact that he NEVER turns the ball over, is very efficient at moving the offense down the field, and is a extremely elusive as a QB is a huge reason why the team is winning right now. He's not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. Doesn't mean he sucks. I was baffled when people wanted him gone last offseason. Made 0 sense to me. All that said, I'd still draft a QB in the first. The position means too much to a teams success. A LOT more then every other position. Our offense is actually 20th in yards per drive.
reddogblitz Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 Our offense is actually 20th in yards per drive. 15th in points paired with 2nd in least points given up. A recipe for winning if there ever was one.
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