Wayne Arnold Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Do we have the "most" defensive HC in the NFL? Why are we dead last? Why do we pass 4-5 less attempts per game than the defensive HC average? I have nothing against transplantbillsfan but that's one of the worst arguments I've read on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Actually, Chris Hogan is. As is Fred Jackson. I see I should have stipulated that he is for players who have thrown 500+ passes. 62.6% Teams with 300+ yard passers only lose if they don't have a defense imo...I don't think we would have to worry about that with McD Unless they also throw a lot of interceptions and/or fumble a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I have nothing against transplantbillsfan but that's one of the worst arguments I've read on this forum. Well I did read yesterday that TT is doing well because we have more passing yards than rushing yards on the season, so it's a close second for me. As is Fred Jackson. I see I should have stipulated that he is for players who have thrown 500+ passes. 62.6% Unless they also throw a lot of interceptions and/or fumble a lot. Just messing with ya fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 As is Fred Jackson. I see I should have stipulated that he is for players who have thrown 500+ passes. 62.6% Unless they also throw a lot of interceptions and/or fumble a lot. True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 As is Fred Jackson. I see I should have stipulated that he is for players who have thrown 500+ passes. 62.6% Unless they also throw a lot of interceptions and/or fumble a lot. Jackson and Hogan may have the same completion percentage but can't come close to Preston Ridlehuber, who had the same percentage but also a perfect passer rating of 158.3. He threw a 45 yard halfback option for a score to win the game against the Patriots when OJ had a headache in his rookie season. He also recovered the Jet fumble in the endzone for the Raiders to win the Heidi Bowl game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moshermw Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Jackson and Hogan may have the same completion percentage but can't come close to Preston Ridlehuber, who had the same percentage but also a perfect passer rating of 158.3. He threw a 45 yard halfback option for a score to win the game against the Patriots when OJ had a headache in his rookie season. He also recovered the Jet fumble in the endzone for the Raiders to win the Heidi Bowl game. $. , Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) Our OC called the 17th most passing attempts last season soooooAre you referring to Rick Dennison who was reporting to his boss (Gary Kubiak) who was very much an offensive minded head coach? Thanks for proving my point considering I think we can all finally agree that Tyrod > Siemian Teams are averaging 34.3 pass attempts per game this season. The Bills are averaging 28 pass attempts per game. Only the Bears average less at 27.8 pass attempts. You're overstating the defensive background thing. Last season NFL teams averaged 35.7 pass attempts per game. Taylor and the Bills averaged an NFL-low 29.6 pass attempts. Dennison's offense averaged 35.6 pass attempts per game - 17th in the NFL. It's not a coincidence that every system Taylor plays in is at or very near the bottom of the league in throwing the football. Not really overstating it at all actually. You point to our current OC. I appreciate that because I forgot that he worked with an offensive Head Coach in Kubiak last year with a worse QB in Siemian and he seemed to have been given free rein while this year he's working with McDermott, a defensive minded Head Coach and a better QB than last year in Taylor and he seems to be more restricted. Great example! Thanks. Edited November 2, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Are you referring to Rick Dennison who was reporting to his boss (Gary Kubiak) who was very much an offensive minded head coach? Thanks for proving my point considering I think we can all finally agree that Tyrod > Siemian Not really overstating it at all actually. You point to our current OC. I appreciate that because I forgot that he worked with an offensive Head Coach in Kubiak last year with a worse QB in Siemian and he seemed to have been given free rein while this year he's working with McDermott, a defensive minded Head Coach and a better QB than last year in Taylor and he seems to be more restricted. Great example! Thanks. This argument is just silly. It's revisionist at best and doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And it doesn't explain why TT is leagues lower than the average attempts per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Yes I watched. I dont like being super conservative. This past game, were they conservative? IMO no they were not and frankly I liked it a lot! They ran and passed. d it IMO they were. Starting at 10:50 in the 4th quarter the Bills ran 12 plays total in the 4th quarter. That doesn't include the last kneel down drive. 11 runs. 1 pass on 3rd down. 3rd quarter starting at 10:41. We got an INT and started at the oak 41 yard line. Score was 17-7 at that point. Run, run, run by McCoy. Swing pass to Tolbert that hasn't worked for 7 games now on second and long for -2 yards. 3rd and long throw away in the endzone. FG. That's pretty conservative to me. I don't mind because they are winning and it seems to work for them more often than not. I don't like it because at some point it might not work. It could be a big game with playoffs on the line where they might have won if they were a little bit more aggressive. Looking at the third quarter... go for the throat and try and get a TD. Why do they more often then not play for FGs after a big turnover? Looking at the 4th quarter... doesn't seem bad because the run game was working and it killed half the quarter. One play doesn't work and its 3 and out leaving 9 minutes instead of 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Our OC called the 17th most passing attempts last season sooooo Yeah well that was Kubiak and they weren't very good with Joe Montana... I mean Trevor Montana... I mean Joe Siemian... sooooo For the past two seasons, Dennison has been the non-play calling offensive coordinator with the Broncos. (He did call a few games when Kubiak missed games due to health issues.) Denver finished 25th and 28th in offensive DVOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Yeah well that was Kubiak and they weren't very good with Joe Montana... I mean Trevor Montana... I mean Joe Siemian... sooooo The OC of Denver was actually Dennison. Are you referring to Rick Dennison who was reporting to his boss (Gary Kubiak) who was very much an offensive minded head coach? Thanks for proving my point considering I think we can all finally agree that Tyrod > Siemian Not really overstating it at all actually. You point to our current OC. I appreciate that because I forgot that he worked with an offensive Head Coach in Kubiak last year with a worse QB in Siemian and he seemed to have been given free rein while this year he's working with McDermott, a defensive minded Head Coach and a better QB than last year in Taylor and he seems to be more restricted. Great example! Thanks. Looks like another one needs a lesson in causality. Where's J-Mo when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) Teams are averaging 34.3 pass attempts per game this season. The Bills are averaging 28 pass attempts per game. Only the Bears average less at 27.8 pass attempts. You're overstating the defensive background thing. Last season NFL teams averaged 35.7 pass attempts per game. Taylor and the Bills averaged an NFL-low 29.6 pass attempts. Dennison's offense averaged 35.6 pass attempts per game - 17th in the NFL. It's not a coincidence that every system Taylor plays in is at or very near the bottom of the league in throwing the football. Why, what is the reason for the low passing attempts? If Taylor had the same average amount of attempts calculated off his yards per attempt he would be top 12 in yardage. People keep saying that Taylors attempts are low because he cant throw the football. What evidence is there that he cant throw the football? He is 12 in completion %. Why would he suddenly not be able to throw the football if he had 5 extra attempts per game? All the while he has had a rag tag bunch of receivers. Do you really think the coaching staff goes conservative because they don't think Taylor can throw the football when Taylor has done well throwing the football almost every time they ask him to? He can throw the football when its a long field but when we get a short field they play for field goals? He can throw the football when the score is close but when its got a gap they run for an entire quarter? It doesn't add up. Do we have the "most" defensive HC in the NFL? Why are we dead last? Why do we pass 4-5 less attempts per game than the defensive HC average? Could be because we actually lead most of our games so there is no need to. Most teams that pass the ball 35 times a game are doing so either A. because their run game is terrible or B. because their games are close throughout the entire game. We get a lead and they stop throwing the football. Sometimes in the 3rd quarter even. The OC of Denver was actually Dennison. Looks like another one needs a lesson in causality. Where's J-Mo when you need him? The play caller of Denver was actually Kubiak. Edited November 2, 2017 by Scott7975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) Why, what is the reason for the low passing attempts? If Taylor had the same average amount of attempts calculated off his yards per attempt he would be top 12 in yardage. People keep saying that Taylors attempts are low because he cant throw the football. What evidence is there that he cant throw the football? He is 12 in completion %. Why would he suddenly not be able to throw the football if he had 5 extra attempts per game? All the while he has had a rag tag bunch of receivers. Do you really think the coaching staff goes conservative because they don't think Taylor can throw the football when Taylor has done well throwing the football almost every time they ask him to? He can throw the football when its a long field but when we get a short field they play for field goals? He can throw the football when the score is close but when its got a gap they run for an entire quarter? It doesn't add up. Could be because we actually lead most of our games so there is no need to. Most teams that pass the ball 35 times a game are doing so either A. because their run game is terrible or B. because their games are close throughout the entire game. We get a lead and they stop throwing the football. Sometimes in the 3rd quarter even. We are the best team in the league with leads? I haven't seen that. Edited November 2, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 We are the best team in the league with leads? I haven't seen that. Are we? I don't know. I don't recall saying that. I bet we are close though since you bring it up. Our defense is one of the best in the league in turnovers and points against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Are we? I don't know. I don't recall saying that. I bet we are close though since you bring it up. Our defense is one of the best in the league in turnovers and points against. I'm trying to think of when we have lost a lead. TB is there most recent I can think of. Never led in Carolina. Any other leads lost? Atlanta maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I'm trying to think of when we have lost a lead. TB is there most recent I can think of. Never led in Carolina. Any other leads lost? Atlanta maybe? We had the lead a 3 point lead against Cinci for a little while and lost. I don't think we have lost a lead once established very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 We had the lead a 3 point lead against Cinci for a little while and lost. I don't think we have lost a lead once established very often. and that's not even a good lead. It's marginal. I've watch too many games where the bills are up by 10,14,21 and have lost the game. I knew it in my soul they were gonna lose to TB but they pulled it off. BBFS I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 and that's not even a good lead. It's marginal. I've watch too many games where the bills are up by 10,14,21 and have lost the game. I knew it in my soul they were gonna lose to TB but they pulled it off. BBFS I guess. All coaching. That's what happens when you don't have a coach that turns a defense into swiss cheese and runs his team like a carnival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 All coaching. That's what happens when you don't have a coach that turns a defense into swiss cheese and runs his team like a carnival. which coach are you referring to? A bunch have done it in the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 which coach are you referring to? A bunch have done it in the last decade. McDermott vs Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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