How (or when) will Russia retaliate?

[blzrul]

Is that according to your intelligence sources?  Yeah, I thought so.

19818[/snapback]

 

Note the use of the word "supposedly" in the post.

 

So you think Russia should join in with those powerhouses like Cameroon and send troops to Iraq? Why? There's no evidence that the plot originated in Iraq.

 

My intelligence sources are about as good as yours. Maybe better - I've never seen your name coupled with the word "intelligence" anywhere on this board.

[stuckincincy]

Ah, another of your cryptic posts 

19889[/snapback]

 

Sorry. A Russian military presence in the Kirkuk - Arbil - Mosul area would be interesting.

[chicot]

Sorry.  A Russian military presence in the Kirkuk - Arbil - Mosul area would be interesting.

19900[/snapback]

 

I thought you weren't actually suggesting that Russian troops might be deployed in Iraq? Won't happen. They have enough to deal with in Chechnya - it's not getting much press in the UK (nor in the US, I would imagine) but I read an article that stated they're losing an average of 15 men a week down there and it's more than likely that they will be increasing the amount of troops they have in that region. No, they have enough to deal with without getting dragged into Iraq.

[stuckincincy]

I thought you weren't actually suggesting that Russian troops might be deployed in Iraq? Won't happen. They have enough to deal with in Chechnya - it's not getting much press in the UK (nor in the US, I would imagine) but I read an article that stated they're losing an average of 15 men a week down there and it's more than likely that they will be increasing the amount of troops they have in that region. No, they have enough to deal with without getting dragged into Iraq.

19911[/snapback]

 

 

I belive the Russians are 1) Very angry, and 2) Are having some sort of "seller's remorse" re Iran. Probably Syria, too. Who would be dragging them into Iraq? They might want to be there, now. And not necessarily to fully participate in the rebuilding of Iraq. Seems to me that they're starting to understand that Chechnya is an effect, not the cause.

 

The concept of "surgical strike", as we know it, is not very well-rooted in their minds. Some feel that the Russian military approches ineffectiveness these days. I happen to think that the Bear is quite capable of exhaling some very, very bad breath. Unconventional breath if sufficiently wounded.

[DC Tom]

The concept of "surgical strike", as we know it, is not very well-rooted in their minds.

19968[/snapback]

 

Or their technology or tradition. Backfires, Blinders, and Blackjacks can carry a hell of a lot of bombs, though...

 

Personally...if I were the Russians, I'd be bombing every single school in Chechnya next weekend (when classes are out). May not be viscerally satisfying...but imagine how much Chechnya as a society would suffer for generations for the lack of education.

[Alaska Darin]

you do not have to excuse me AD, I simply meant that there is really no need to debate "ME" on this point since you have zero chance of affecting how I think.

 

No need to be a smart ass........I would afford you the same respect. I others want to discuss this matter further...then more power to them, that is why they are here. Again, I said that I do not want or need to because there really is no need to.

19877[/snapback]

I know I won't affect how you "think." That in itself is oxymoronic.

 

If someone kills my family because someone distantly related to me commits some heinous crime, guess what? I'm probably not going to be a very nice person. I can't say what lengths I would go to to avenge the death of my wife and child, but I don't imagine it'd be pretty. I'm sure that next step eluded your deep thought pattern.

[stuckincincy]

Or their technology or tradition.  Backfires, Blinders, and Blackjacks can carry a hell of a lot of bombs, though... 

 

Personally...if I were the Russians, I'd be bombing every single school in Chechnya next weekend (when classes are out).  May not be viscerally satisfying...but imagine how much Chechnya as a society would suffer for generations for the lack of education.

19990[/snapback]

 

I remember when Grozny was being assaulted when Boris was in charge. I heard a news chickee say the Russians were using "Tu planes". Indeed.

[chicot]

Or their technology or tradition.  Backfires, Blinders, and Blackjacks can carry a hell of a lot of bombs, though...  

 

Personally...if I were the Russians, I'd be bombing every single school in Chechnya next weekend (when classes are out).  May not be viscerally satisfying...but imagine how much Chechnya as a society would suffer for generations for the lack of education.

19990[/snapback]

 

The best response would be one that comes from the head and not from the heart. Revenge may be emotionally satisfying but if it does nothing to prevent this sort of tragedy from happening again and instead makes a repitition more likely, then it is a very hollow sort of victory. The perpetrators of this atrocity must have known that a heavy-handed indiscriminate response was a likely outcome, indeed they may well have been counting on it. The more that innocent Chechens are killed or punished for the actions of these maniacs the more likely it is that ordinary Chechens will take up arms against Russia. What is needed is a two-pronged approach - it must be made clear that Russia's quarrel is not with ordinary Chechens but with the monsters that would carry out such actions, while at the same time pursuing the terrorists will full vigour.

[Thurman's Helmet]

Knock Knock Chechnya?

 

Who's there?

 

 

KA-BOOM!!!

[DC Tom]

The best response would be one that comes from the head and not from the heart. Revenge may be emotionally satisfying but if it does nothing to prevent this sort of tragedy from happening again and instead makes a repitition more likely, then it is a very hollow sort of victory. The perpetrators of this atrocity must have known that a heavy-handed indiscriminate response was a likely outcome, indeed they may well have been counting on it. The more that innocent Chechens are killed or punished for the actions of these maniacs the more likely it is that ordinary Chechens will take up arms against Russia. What is need is a two-pronged approach - it must be made clear that Russia's quarrel is not with ordinary Chechens but with the monsters that would carry out such actions, while at the same time pursuing the terrorists will full vigour.

20119[/snapback]

 

Normally, I'd agree with you...but in this case, I think the Russians would perceive their quarrel to actually be with ordinary Chechens. The root cause of all this isn't radical Islam or al Qaeda, it's Chechen independence. For what it's worth, events in Russia the past week were simple, classic international terrorism writ large, not al Qaeda's particular brand of intranational terrorism.

 

And the Russians have traditionally thought differently than we in the west on matters of retaliation. A large-scale military action against Chechen innocents (keeping in mind that "innocent Chechens" may very well be an oxymoron in Russian minds right now) may very well be a Stalinist throwback, but it's hardly out of the question even in post-Communist Russia...especially given how the Chechen war has been fought so far.

 

But despite how I sounded, I wasn't advocating bombing all Chechen schools to rubble...except in comparison to Russia's more likely response being more overt and bloody. Ultimately...you don't really want to know what I'd advocate...

[Bill from NYC]

The best response would be one that comes from the head and not from the heart. Revenge may be emotionally satisfying but if it does nothing to prevent this sort of tragedy from happening again and instead makes a repitition more likely, then it is a very hollow sort of victory. The perpetrators of this atrocity must have known that a heavy-handed indiscriminate response was a likely outcome, indeed they may well have been counting on it. The more that innocent Chechens are killed or punished for the actions of these maniacs the more likely it is that ordinary Chechens will take up arms against Russia. What is needed is a two-pronged approach - it must be made clear that Russia's quarrel is not with ordinary Chechens but with the monsters that would carry out such actions, while at the same time pursuing the terrorists will full vigour.

20119[/snapback]

 

chicot, are you willing to accept the possibility that you tend to hold non-Islamic countries to a far higher standard when it comes to terrorism and war? Could you even give this any thought?

 

If Israel took hostages in a Palestinian school, deprived them of food and water, and set off explosions, would you urge and caution Palestinians to be oh so careful in retaliation?

 

At some point, the masses of muslims are going to pay for sitting on their hands, and even cheering while Americans, Brits, Russians, Israelis (Jews), etc. are murdered by Islamic scum. Yes my friend, scum. Filthy criminal scum who murder others under the guise of caring for their fellow muslims.

 

All these "fundamentalists" truly want is power and money, and the spoils that accompany it. Yes, the things that money can buy, but you know what....they will lose.

[Rich in Ohio]

So let me get this straight. You are actually proposing the murder of children? In that case, how are you any better than the terrorists that committed this atrocity? I have no problem whatsoever with sending the actual culprits to meet their maker, but the killing of each and every person they knew makes no sense whatsoever. Extending this logic to 9/11, would you kill anyone who cut the hair of the hijackers or served them in a bar?

19884[/snapback]

 

 

Now your catching on.

[GG]

Checnya is a good example of a region that can feed off extemist fires. The original battles for infdependence were not sowed by hard line imams. However, Yeltsin's inane and brutal attemps to quell the rebelion have invited scores of support from the traditional terrorists, including Al Qeda.

 

There are reportedly 200,000 dead Chechens since the conflicts erupted in the early '90s, and the Chechen opposition feeds off that number. The Russians are stiuck with their inability to diffuse the conflict under the new regime, because they won't be able to wipe the area clean, like they could have done 15 years ago, and no one would have heard peep about it.

 

The big problem Russia is facing is not being able to transform its organizations to fight the modern war on terrorism. If you think that the US intelligence agencies are having a hard time adapting to the new realities, check out the state of affairs in Moscow.

 

The terrorists have had no problem in bypassing Russian security apparatus, and will continue to do so, until Russia changes its corrupted mindset. While Russia may not roll its forces into Baghdad, I certainly see a greater involvement in clamping down on other terrorist friendly states, with whom Russians had a good relationship (provided Putin can finally figure out a way to stop Russian aerms from ending up in the black market).

[Cheeseburger_in_paradise]

The Russia of old would have been done something BIG by now.  But the new Russia is dirt broke and limited in what they can do.  Did you see how poorly equipped their special forces were last week... and that was the equivalent of their Delta Force.

 

 

I believe the response could be in the fashion of the "OLD WAY." Russia kept a huge portion of the a world under its thumb for over half a century. And it wasn't all that long ago.

[Mickey]

The Russia of old would have been done something BIG by now.  But the new Russia is dirt broke and limited in what they can do.  Did you see how poorly equipped their special forces were last week... and that was the equivalent of their Delta Force.

 

This blog has a very good discussion on the Russian response:  Belmont Club.

 

Regardless of the who/what/how retaliation happens, I hope it's HUGE and violent.  That's what those vermin deserve for deliberately harming children.  A message needs to be sent.  If they get away with it there, it will be done here soon!.

 

You know what is interesting... they caught 9 Arab terrorists among the Checnyan dirt bags, which implies a direct link to militant Islam world wide, but the main stream press isn't reporting the Arab factor!!!  Multi-cultural sensitivities are hindering and prolonging the war on terror.

19869[/snapback]

 

The problem is that the Chechen guerillas are not willing to congregate in large numbers and then send an invitation to the Russian military to terminate them all at once. Instead, they live among ethnic Russians so that if you just decide to create a big wet spot you end up killing as many of your own people as you do that of the enemy. The Russians would love to do something big but the enemy is just not going to give them the opportunity.

[Mickey]

Or their technology or tradition.  Backfires, Blinders, and Blackjacks can carry a hell of a lot of bombs, though... 

 

Personally...if I were the Russians, I'd be bombing every single school in Chechnya next weekend (when classes are out).  May not be viscerally satisfying...but imagine how much Chechnya as a society would suffer for generations for the lack of education.

19990[/snapback]

 

Tom, aren't there Russians in Chechnya? I thought there was no real line with Russians on one side and all the bad guys on the other but instead an ethnically mixed population. The Chechen's want independence and the ethnic Russians in Chechen want to keep being Russians. No?

[Mickey]

Sorry.  A Russian military presence in the Kirkuk - Arbil - Mosul area would be interesting.

19900[/snapback]

 

About as likely as American Soldiers in Chechnya. They are all for the war on terrorism, they just don't see the war in Iraq as having anything to do with that. A point the rest of the world seems to agree with, the notable exceptions being the Republican Party and Tony Blair.

[Mickey]

The best response would be one that comes from the head and not from the heart. Revenge may be emotionally satisfying but if it does nothing to prevent this sort of tragedy from happening again and instead makes a repitition more likely, then it is a very hollow sort of victory. The perpetrators of this atrocity must have known that a heavy-handed indiscriminate response was a likely outcome, indeed they may well have been counting on it. The more that innocent Chechens are killed or punished for the actions of these maniacs the more likely it is that ordinary Chechens will take up arms against Russia. What is needed is a two-pronged approach - it must be made clear that Russia's quarrel is not with ordinary Chechens but with the monsters that would carry out such actions, while at the same time pursuing the terrorists will full vigour.

20119[/snapback]

 

Do you believe that the ordinary Chechens don't support these killings? Probably the same as the ordinary muslims who do not support Osama bin Laden. That does leave a mystery though as to why Osama has supposedly become the most popular name for baby boys in that part of the world.

[Alaska Darin]

That does leave a mystery though as to why Osama has supposedly become the most popular name for baby boys in that part of the world.

20329[/snapback]

Because Muhammed seems so dated?

[Alaska Darin]

Note the use of the word "supposedly" in the post. 

 

So you think Russia should join in with those powerhouses like Cameroon and send troops to Iraq? Why?  There's no evidence that the plot originated in Iraq.

 

My intelligence sources are about as good as yours.  Maybe better - I've never seen your name coupled with the word "intelligence" anywhere on this board.

19894[/snapback]

Your post stated that is wasn't Al Qaeda. Mr. Putin apparently disagrees with you. I didn't say stevestojan about Iraq but since you brought it up again, there's currently no evidence the plot didn't originate in Iraq.

 

If I actually had intelligence sources, I wouldn't be talking about them on an internet message board. If you actually have any, I hope they reevaluate that decision post haste. For the life of me I can't understand how anyone could tell you anything (telephone, telegraph, tell Debbie), especially since you're a civilian with no actual need to know (or a clearance, ASFAIK).

 

Your bluster never ceases to amaze.