DriveFor1Outta5 Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 17 hours ago, Real McCoy said: Spot on, boom or bust! If the Bills can't go 4-2 from here out there is zero reason to win another game as it just hurts us like it has so many years prior. Some people forget but the way the late 80's and 90's team were built came from from these poor records 1982 4-5 (NFL strike year) = 83 draft - Jim Kelly and Daryl Talley 1983 8-8 = 84 draft - BLAH! - Greg Bell 1984 2-14 = 85 draft - Bruce and Reed 1985 2-14 = 86 draft - Will Wolford 1986 4-12 = 87 draft - Colan, Odoms, House 1987 7-8 (NFL strike year) = 88 draft - Thurman Thomas 6 year span 27-61 record 1988 up - Magic began to happen I agree, that’s how the nucleus of our 90’s teams was built. Sadly we’ve had plenty of high draft choices throughout the 00’s as well. We have yet to use them wisely. There have been far too many Greg Bell type picks in recent years. I’m not sure I have confidence that Beane is the guy to break that trend. For all of our sake, I hope that he is.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: I agree, that’s how the nucleus of our 90’s teams was built. Sadly we’ve had plenty of high draft choices throughout the 00’s as well. We have yet to use them wisely. There have been far too many Greg Bell type picks in recent years. I’m not sure I have confidence that Beane is the guy to break that trend. For all of our sake, I hope that he is. But I thought Whaley was a good GM?
BringBackOrton Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: That was pre-free agency......and the salary cap.........with a huge assist from the USFL folding..........so not applicable. Been well documented the issues with Bills stars back in the 1980's........McD would have declined Kelly's 5th year option and traded Bruce and Andre for someone's comp picks. Bruce and Talley were USFL guys? Funny how having some high picks in talented areas led us to the best era in franchise history. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 1 minute ago, jmc12290 said: Bruce and Talley were USFL guys? Funny how having some high picks in talented areas led us to the best era in franchise history. Great post, and to educate the ignorant masses, how did we acquire those high picks?
FappyTheClown Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 So is the OP happy about 5 wins with possibly 1 or two more?
BADOLBILZ Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 19 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: That sounds like the 7-year plan post a couple weeks ago. Actually, the USFL folding didn't have much to do with it; without drafting Kelly the Bills wouldn't have had his rights, so I'm not sure why that matters. And several years of high draft picks were pivotal in building a very strong core of young players, something that we don't have now unless T. White all by himself counts as a "core." Maybe we should nickname him "Core" The USFL served as a free training ground for Kelly........who knows what a few years in a popgun offense behind a bad OL on an awful team would have done to his development but judging from the results in 1986 I'd say it would have been bad.........I think Kent Hull was like getting an extra first round pick but perhaps you didn't value him........Ray Bentley was a very good starting LB for the Bills from 88-90 and made plays in the playoffs..........and Scott Norwood was a valued kicker until he started to fade in 1990. The timing of the USFL fold was VERY fortuitous for the Bills and really helped them stack talent in a hurry.
vincec Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 On 11/23/2017 at 1:41 PM, Real McCoy said: Spot on, boom or bust! If the Bills can't go 4-2 from here out there is zero reason to win another game as it just hurts us like it has so many years prior. Some people forget but the way the late 80's and 90's team were built came from from these poor records 1982 4-5 (NFL strike year) = 83 draft - Jim Kelly and Daryl Talley 1983 8-8 = 84 draft - BLAH! - Greg Bell 1984 2-14 = 85 draft - Bruce and Reed 1985 2-14 = 86 draft - Will Wolford 1986 4-12 = 87 draft - Colan, Odoms, House 1987 7-8 (NFL strike year) = 88 draft - Thurman Thomas 6 year span 27-61 record 1988 up - Magic began to happen How is the tanking working out for the Sabres? If all it took was losing to win championships then the Browns would be multiple year Champions.
Real McClappy Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, vincec said: How is the tanking working out for the Sabres? If all it took was losing to win championships then the Browns would be multiple year Champions. Where the Sabres come from? Apples and Oranges there with a BS lottery draft system. The list was to show the obvious of getting a QB and then building around him. Would Bill Polian of been as successful if GM McGroder did not draft Kelly in 1983 or Bledsoe drafting Bruce and Reed in 1985? I for one doubt it. The list is to prove you draft your franchise QB and build around him, not the other way around. Edited November 25, 2017 by Real McCoy 2
LABILLBACKER Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 This season is over. We'll beat the Colts and Fins at home wrapping up another worthless 7-9 season. Probably out of the top 10 for the draft. The good news is I feel we will blow out the remaining players from the Marrone/Ryan era.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) Ask me again in a few weeks. I can tell you something then with more certainty or I’d have to tell you a lie now. Edited November 25, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan
vincec Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, Real McCoy said: Where the Sabres come from? Apples and Oranges there with a BS lottery draft system. The list was to show the obvious of getting a QB and then building around him. Would Bill Polian of been as successful if GM McGroder did not draft Kelly in 1983 or Bledsoe drafting Bruce and Reed in 1985? I for one doubt it. The list is to prove you draft your franchise QB and build around him, not the other way around. There's no one way to build. The Seahawks built their team and then got Russell Wilson. Same with the Patriots when they inserted Brady or the Broncos when they grabbed Manning. There are numerous other examples. The Sabres and Browns are cautionary tales to anyone who thinks that there is "zero reason to win another game" (as you posted) if they can't make the playoffs because it lowers their draft pick. Winning is a culture and a habit. You don't built it by tanking. Losing is easy and accepting losing turns you into the Browns or Sabres. Edited November 25, 2017 by vincec
Real McClappy Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, vincec said: There's no one way to build. The Seahawks built their team and then got Russell Wilson. Same with the Patriots when they inserted Brady or the Broncos when they grabbed Manning. There are numerous other examples. The Sabres and Browns are cautionary tales to anyone who thinks that there is "zero reason to win another game" (as you posted) if they can't make the playoffs because it lowers their draft pick. Winning is a culture and a habit. You don't built it by tanking. Losing is easy and accepting losing turns you into the Browns or Sabres. Don't misquote me as I said if we do not go 4-2 with the remaining 6 games there is zero reason to win another game as it's hurts the Bills further. With the way we are playing now I see maybe 2 more wins this year. What will those 2 wins do for us other than hurt the us like 7-9 records have done in the past? Sure you can pull in 2 of the greatest QB's of all time on winning Super bowls as it only strengthens my point that you needs to have a franchise QB to win one. In order to get there or win one we have to draft one very early. a 7-9 record lands you JP Losman over Eli, Ben or Rivers. Your idea of 7-9 or 8-8 is flawed and history has proven it for almost 20 years now.
vincec Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Don't misquote me as I said if we do not go 4-2 with the remaining 6 games there is zero reason to win another game as it's hurts the Bills further. With the way we are playing now I see maybe 2 more wins this year. What will those 2 wins do for us other than hurt the us like 7-9 records have done in the past? Sure you can pull in 2 of the greatest QB's of all time on winning Super bowls as it only strengthens my point that you needs to have a franchise QB to win one. In order to get there or win one we have to draft one very early. a 7-9 record lands you JP Losman over Eli, Ben or Rivers. Your idea of 7-9 or 8-8 is flawed and history has proven it for almost 20 years now. I didn't misquote you. You are saying that the Bills should lose out if they can't win enough games to make the playoffs. I think that's a bad way to build a winning culture, which is really how you build a championship team. If you think that saying the exact opposite of what you said strengthens your argument then I don't know what to say, but carry on.
Real McClappy Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, vincec said: I didn't misquote you. You are saying that the Bills should lose out if they can't win enough games to make the playoffs. I think that's a bad way to build a winning culture, which is really how you build a championship team. If you think that saying the exact opposite of what you said strengthens your argument then I don't know what to say, but carry on. Tomorrow will tell all with this club. If we get our asses handed to us, do you think we can possibly go 4-1? If the answer is no like I think it is, what is the point of winning another game? You say "building a winning culture and how you build a championship team? We will disagree here until the end of time. Do you know what 12/3/03 was? It was the day the Bills lost drafting Big Ben due to a pointless win against the Jets to bring us a 6-10 record. Instead of drafting at pick #8 we landed 13th and Pitts had 11th due to tie breaker crap. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows the Bills tried desperately to jump ahead of Pitts and simply could not. Instead we took Lee Evans with that 13th pick and traded back into the first for friggin Losman. So yeah, that extra win against the Jets sure built a "winning culture" back in 2003 and beyond. Edited November 26, 2017 by Real McCoy 1
BringBackOrton Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 5 hours ago, vincec said: There's no one way to build. The Seahawks built their team and then got Russell Wilson. Same with the Patriots when they inserted Brady or the Broncos when they grabbed Manning. There are numerous other examples. The Sabres and Browns are cautionary tales to anyone who thinks that there is "zero reason to win another game" (as you posted) if they can't make the playoffs because it lowers their draft pick. Winning is a culture and a habit. You don't built it by tanking. Losing is easy and accepting losing turns you into the Browns or Sabres. The Jags were perennial basement dwellers and now look at them. The Seahawks built their core talent like every other good team. Hit on some later picks who turn out to be franchise-tier players. Sherman, Antonio Brown, Leveon Bell, Brady etc etc.
dulles Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 On 11/23/2017 at 1:41 PM, Real McCoy said: Spot on, boom or bust! If the Bills can't go 4-2 from here out there is zero reason to win another game as it just hurts us like it has so many years prior. Some people forget but the way the late 80's and 90's team were built came from from these poor records 1982 4-5 (NFL strike year) = 83 draft - Jim Kelly and Daryl Talley 1983 8-8 = 84 draft - BLAH! - Greg Bell 1984 2-14 = 85 draft - Bruce and Reed 1985 2-14 = 86 draft - Will Wolford 1986 4-12 = 87 draft - Colan, Odoms, House 1987 7-8 (NFL strike year) = 88 draft - Thurman Thomas 6 year span 27-61 record 1988 up - Magic began to happen The most startling thing about those seasons is not the Bills record, but the TWO strikes! Maybe Roger has earned a raise from the owners. Keeping the gravy train rollin' appears to be pretty important!
vincec Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 11 hours ago, jmc12290 said: The Jags were perennial basement dwellers and now look at them. The Seahawks built their core talent like every other good team. Hit on some later picks who turn out to be franchise-tier players. Sherman, Antonio Brown, Leveon Bell, Brady etc etc. Exactly. The Jags don't even have a good QB and they are 7-3 and playoff bound. There is no one way.
cba fan Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 On 11/23/2017 at 8:44 PM, The Frankish Reich said: That sounds like the 7-year plan post a couple weeks ago. Actually, the USFL folding didn't have much to do with it; without drafting Kelly the Bills wouldn't have had his rights, so I'm not sure why that matters. And several years of high draft picks were pivotal in building a very strong core of young players, something that we don't have now unless T. White all by himself counts as a "core." Maybe we should nickname him "Core" You make an excellent point. By Kelly going to USFL he developed better and was not subject to the pounding he would have received with the bad Bills teams at the time. Bills also bottomed out record wise and so had high draft picks to get the Super Bowl players. Luck man. You can't generate your own like that.
BringBackOrton Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 48 minutes ago, vincec said: Exactly. The Jags don't even have a good QB and they are 7-3 and playoff bound. There is no one way. That's because they lost a lot and built one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. A franchise QB on that team would go undefeated. They wouldn't be where they are without tanking
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