klos63 Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Yes we are but this was not the time to weaken your team. And to make a team you are in the playoff race against better in the process. For what a 6th round pick lol This is my concern as well. We seem to be a weaker team compared to yesterday. We are in the thick of a playoff race. It's concerning.
K-9 Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 What are you talking about? One of his former head coaches just traded for him!! Dareus was one of many players on that squad who didn't like Marrone; that defense played for Schwartz. That said and as I mentioned yesterday, if the Jax DC can become a Schwartz for Dareus, then there's a chance he can regain his form. I think every HC in the league, especially Marrone, can appreciate Dareus' talent of three years ago. But that Dareus has been gone since then and while I sincerely hope the kid can regain his form, I very much doubt it at this stage of his career given his track record.
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Intelligence hmm was Dareus traded from the team before they are playing for the division lead? Or was he HELPING that team up until this week? So now you remove a player the real only player that can stack Double teams and logged 40+ snaps last week and you think the team is better? Then you question my intelligence ha ha ha Do you understand subtracting a negative is a net positive? That's 4th grade math. They have other DTs that can take on blocks, and not pay a fortune to a guy that only shows up when he feels like it.
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 And when he was here had problems with the guy. Watch. He'll have the same issues there as he did here. And Saint Doug will LOVE it because with Saint Doug Marcel was a two time probowler and first team all pro
YoloinOhio Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Dareus laughed in everyones face after he was asked about the incident in Baltimore in preseason. It was disrespectful and embarrassing for the organization. He might be good person but he does not care about the Bills. When are trying to turn a culture around you cannot have that attitude around when hes the highest paid player on the team. They need to move forward and build for the long term. They will bring in talented players - they have cap space and draft picks to do it. Right now we just see the outgoing players and lament what might have been. Its going to take a couple off seasons but I have no doubt they have their eyes on talented guys who can also approach the game the way it needs to be done to be playoff caliber.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 This is my concern as well. We seem to be a weaker team compared to yesterday. We are in the thick of a playoff race. It's concerning.Exactly I could have gotten behind it if the value was there. A 3rd rounder and I would have said okay. The return had to justify the minimal cap savings.
YoloinOhio Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Do you understand subtracting a negative is a net positive? That's 4th grade math. They have other DTs that can take on blocks, and not pay a fortune to a guy that only shows up when he feels like it. they can bring back that deondre Coleman guy if they need a big space eater.
oldmanfan Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 And Saint Doug will LOVE it because with Saint Doug Marcel was a two time probowler and first team all pro And before he got paid so much and decided to become a pile of goo.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Do you understand subtracting a negative is a net positive? That's 4th grade math. They have other DTs that can take on blocks, and not pay a fortune to a guy that only shows up when he feels like it. No they don't.
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 it is your opinion that they could get more for him after the season. We do not know if they would get more or less. Theyve been trying to trade him for months reportedly back to last offseason. So now theyve tried in season and off season. Hes playing less this season than he did last... so not sure why the guarantee that next offseason his stock goes up. Assuming they break the drought this year is a bit of a stretch too imo. Yes it would be more value. Even if it was Only the 6th (would be more because all the guaranteed money paid out already by Bills. So no real backend risk of gaining team. But even if it was only the 6th it is still more value because much less Cap ramifications. Moving in 2018 offseason
Kirby Jackson Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Dareus was one of many players on that squad who didn't like Marrone; that defense played for Schwartz. That said and as I mentioned yesterday, if the Jax DC can become a Schwartz for Dareus, then there's a chance he can regain his form. I think every HC in the league, especially Marrone, can appreciate Dareus' talent of three years ago. But that Dareus has been gone since then and while I sincerely hope the kid can regain his form, I very much doubt it at this stage of his career given his track record. His talent didnt disappear though. If Marrone didnt believe that Dareus could be a major asset he wouldnt have added him. He knows the player, and person, well.
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) Do you understand subtracting a negative is a net positive? That's 4th grade math. They have other DTs that can take on blocks, and not pay a fortune to a guy that only shows up when he feels like it. You still are not getting it. What was the negative was he Hurting the defense? Do they who on this team now has proven they can stack double teams. And get off the contract because now you are still paying a fortune and NOT getting anything from him they can bring back that deondre Coleman guy if they need a big space eater. Yeah severe downgrade And before he got paid so much and decided to become a pile of goo. And when he helps the Jags knock the Bills out of the WC keep pushing the culture change BS Edited October 28, 2017 by MAJBobby
dubs Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 You still are not getting it. What was the negative was he Hurting the defense? Do they who on this team now has proven they can stack double teams. And get off the contract because now you are still paying a fortune and NOT getting anything from him Yeah severe downgrade And when he helps the Jags knock the Bills out of the WC keep pushing the culture change BS Seems to disagree with your position. https://overthecap.com/bills-jaguars-agree-trade-marcell-dareus
YoloinOhio Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Yes it would be more value. Even if it was Only the 6th (would be more because all the guaranteed money paid out already by Bills. So no real backend risk of gaining team. But even if it was only the 6th it is still more value because much less Cap ramifications. Moving in 2018 offseason again we can all agree or disagree with this but I think they wanted him out of the Locker room sooner rather than later. They wont sacrifice the long term for the short term. I know you and others disagree with that approach. We wont know if it works until down the line.
Fan in Chicago Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Exactly I could have gotten behind it if the value was there. A 3rd rounder and I would have said okay. The return had to justify the minimal cap savings. I hated the Watkins trade and still do but this is one move I am totally emotionless about. Several months back, I had wondered what it will take to trade MD and the counter argument I heard was that he was untradable due to his contract. At the time, I felt MD had crossed the patience like with coaches. He needed way too much baby sitting and attention with continued half hearted efforts on the field. As things progressed, he did little to justify the coaches faith in him. He continued to be a distraction and likely taking away reps and attention from a 'lesser' but more motivated player like Worthy. This trade was a long time coming. Imho, this does NOT make the Bills worse this season. The more interesting question of course is, if he can perform close to his potential under Marrone, who knows him very well as you and NoSaint pointed out. If he does well under Marrone, it would be very very telling about McD as coach and the McBeane ego versus ability graph
K-9 Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 His talent didnt disappear though. If Marrone didnt believe that Dareus could be a major asset he wouldnt have added him. He knows the player, and person, well. He knows the player and person Dareus was three years ago. This idea that he is the same player just waiting to come forth again defies the reality we've seen recently. He's been a shadow of his former self on the field and he made it clear that he didn't like the new staff. How was that dynamic going to play out for the Bills? I understand coaches need to find ways to make it work, but like I said, it takes two and Dareus didn't want to dance.
JaCrispy Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Dareus laughed in everyones face after he was asked about the incident in Baltimore in preseason. It was disrespectful and embarrassing for the organization. He might be good person but he does not care about the Bills. When are trying to turn a culture around you cannot have that attitude around when hes the highest paid player on the team. They need to move forward and build for the long term. They will bring in talented players - they have cap space and draft picks to do it. Right now we just see the outgoing players and lament what might have been. Its going to take a couple off seasons but I have no doubt they have their eyes on talented guys who can also approach the game the way it needs to be done to be playoff caliber. Sounds good to me
The Dean Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 As most expect? The Bills are a 3 point favorite Man, I hate to take the side of SP, but in this case.... It's always been my understanding the spread is set to attract a roughly equal amount of $$$ bet on each side, not what the majority of people think will happen. I suspect (but do not know) if you took a poll of football "fans" most would pick the Raiders in this game. The Patriots won the AFC with Aaron Hernandez. Im not buying the one bad apple theory. The only way it holds true is if that player is a leader of the team. Bryant isnt ruining the Steelers either. They will just send him to the bench and move along. Hes a way worse character guy than Dareus. They are going to try to reel him back in and maximize his talent. They are doing that because the value that the Steelers will get at this point isnt enough to rid themselves of the talented headache. As Kelly also posted, can you even think of a successful team that didn't have at least ONE questionable character on the team? Good managers know how to get to use the talent, and minimize the fallout, from these guys. They buy low too. Look at Moss and Dillon, etc... Honestly, I think "buying low" is what Belicheat does best. How are you defining character? If it includes seeking those players with the traits of a choir boy, you couldn't be more far off. It's about "football character" and the personality characteristics that lend themselves to that trait. Dareus is sorely lacking in that department. See, I'm not sure if I agree with this. Dareus is immature, off the field. And, yes, he shows up late sometimes. But ON the field I see a guy playing pretty hard. I hear of him "taking a play off" sometimes. Maybe that's true and I just don't notice. But I can't remember the last time I thought, after a big play, "They would have stopped that play, had Dareus not been lounging around." Ill be that guy. I dont think the Bills are going to the playoffs this year. I dont think they were going with Dareus either. I also dont think the Jags are going. Me neither, Yolo. Never have, this year. But I'll be very excited if things keep going the way they have been going. I'm not completely sure I believe it is because of the QB, in the Bills' case. There are several things going on. I actually think Tyrod is good enough to take you to (and even win) the SB, given the right team. I don't think Tyrod can put the team on his back, and lead the team to victory by the force of his will and performance, when the rest of the team is playing poorly. At least, not yet.
HappyDays Posted October 28, 2017 Author Posted October 28, 2017 I like you happydays, but you speak dumber than Dumb and Dumber. I dont think theres a DT in the league responsible for their teams success. Just look at recent Super Bowls. In the last 6 Super Bowls (12 teams) I would say only 2 DTs - Kawanna Short in 2015 and Haloti Ngata in 2012 - were one of the best at their position. I believe those are the only 2 DTs who played in one of the last 6 Super Bowls and also made 1st team All-Pro. And realistically they were not the reason for their teams making the Super Bowl. And to be clear Dareus is NOT even one of the best at his position. Its hard to rank him exactly because of all his injuries and suspensions, but all things considered I think you have to put him somewhere outside the top 10. McBeane know what positions win Super Bowls. Not DTs or WRs with elite salaries, especially when the players in question are known to be selfish. You win with the best QB you can find, the best CBs you can find, the best LT you can find (I will not support a Glenn trade for anything less than a 1st round pick), the best pass rushers you can find, the best cover LBs you can find. Every other position you can fill in with JAGs that are coached up, maybe you get a really good player at one of the other positions but that wasnt Dareus anyways. I would not pay any DT a $100 million contract, and a DT like Dareus I wouldnt devote any cap space towards.
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