Nihilarian Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Fixed it for you. The 82 NY Giants had Ray Perkins as HC and Bill Parcells as DC. Bill B was linebackers / ST coach and Romeo Crennel was ST/defensive assistant coach. Perkins was fired and Parcells took over as HC. Bill B remained as linebackers coach and Crennel moved to special teams coach. In 1985 Belichick took over as the teams DC. Looking back at that history one could easily say that Parcells was instrumental in developing Belichick into the coach we see today.
klos63 Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 And that's one of the points I was trying to make. We didn't get tangable value. Because he doesn't have tangable value...to us at the least. His presence goes against the new philosophy. Removing him leaves us with a hungry and overachieving roster. A solid platform to build upon. Maybe hungry, but let's wait a few more weeks before declaring them overachieving. The schedule gets tougher and our depth will be tested. Also, not sure if Glenn is next to go. If so, the season is over.
The Dean Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Wrong. Parcells did a great job in NE before Bb got there and great jobs in Dallas (with quincy freaking carter) and miami. He did fine, but with talent. No SBs without Bill B. Was a worse coach in Dallas than Wade, IMO. But I always thought Wade was a pretty decent HC. Better DC, though. Then, the same guy who wanted to "shop for the groceries" went to Miami and started meddling in the groceries of their HC. Disaster. Lost a lot of respect for him, in those final few years. The 82 NY Giants had Ray Perkins as HC and Bill Parcells as DC. Bill B was linebackers / ST coach and Romeo Crennel was ST/defensive assistant coach. Perkins was fired and Parcells took over as HC. Bill B remained as linebackers coach and Crennel moved to special teams coach. In 1985 Belichick took over as the teams DC. Looking back at that history one could easily say that Parcells was instrumental in developing Belichick into the coach we see today. Like I said, Bill B was with Parcells whenever he had great success--but, OK, not always as DC. And you might be right about Parcells being instrumental in developing Belicheat. That's fair.
Domdab99 Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 LT was not 'lunch pail' whatever the heck that means. Hoestetler was hardly a scrub. Led the Raiders to the playoffs and nearly beat us again in Buffalo. This is such a horrible take. LT was one of the top 5 football players of all time. Once in a generation talent. He doesn't have to be a lunch pail type. Jesus. And Hoestetler was average at best.
Nihilarian Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) LT was not 'lunch pail' whatever the heck that means. Hoestetler was hardly a scrub. Led the Raiders to the playoffs and nearly beat us again in Buffalo. Ray Perkins drafted LT in 1981 and he made the pro bowl every year for the next ten years. Having LT at ROLB didn't stop the team from firing Perkins though. Hostetler was a 3rd round scrub that Parcells developed. The guy started for 7 seasons and had two winning seasons out of 7. In his 10-5 season and only playoff appearance with the LA Raiders, he threw 14 TDs and 10 ints that year. Edited October 28, 2017 by Nihilarian
HappyDays Posted October 28, 2017 Author Posted October 28, 2017 This was a salary dump and nothing more. I understand the logic, but I still think we are a better team with him than without , this season, while battling for a playoff spot. They will try to win today and win tomorrow. Always. In 2 years Dareus will not be wasting any space in our salary cap. He is an average player at a position that doesnt mattter as much anymore. Super Bowl defenses have stars that rush the passer or defend the pass. Whaley didnt understand this, worse still he made the Dareus contract virtually impossible to get out of. McBeane is counting their blessings they are able to get a draft pick and lower his cap hit for a couple years before shedding it entirely. It is more likely that Dareus gets suspended again than it is that he propels any team to a Super Bowl. This move shows McBeane has a 5 year minimum. That puts them at the end of all the rookie contracts they get next year. Lots of time to right the ship and were only in the beginning stages. 2017 is for shedding overrated players and stupidly large contracts, 2018 is for getting the pieces they need for the future, 2019 and beyond is when they hope to be yearly contenders. A 3 year plan with 2+ years of evaluation. Finally we are doing it right.
stevewin Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Dang - I just high-motored my way through this thread from page 1 in one sitting. Guess tomorrow morning I'll have to do the same with the next 40 pages
njbuff Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 I don't know how any Bills fan can complain about this trade. Dareus is a waste and a cancer. Good riddance and a MASSIVE contract off the books. Win-win, addition by subtraction. Great day to be a Bills fan. They will try to win today and win tomorrow. Always. In 2 years Dareus will not be wasting any space in our salary cap. He is an average player at a position that doesnt mattter as much anymore. Super Bowl defenses have stars that rush the passer or defend the pass. Whaley didnt understand this, worse still he made the Dareus contract virtually impossible to get out of. McBeane is counting their blessings they are able to get a draft pick and lower his cap hit for a couple years before shedding it entirely. It is more likely that Dareus gets suspended again than it is that he propels any team to a Super Bowl. This move shows McBeane has a 5 year minimum. That puts them at the end of all the rookie contracts they get next year. Lots of time to right the ship and were only in the beginning stages. 2017 is for shedding overrated players and stupidly large contracts, 2018 is for getting the pieces they need for the future, 2019 and beyond is when they hope to be yearly contenders. A 3 year plan with 2+ years of evaluation. Finally we are doing it right. And they have a chance at being successful now. I am not getting ahead of myself just yet. Just win a very winnable Raiders game.
LABILLBACKER Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 People who say culture doesn't matter are clueless. Players play harder when they care more about the other people in the room and see them going all out. It is almost subconscious. If you have one or two of those personalities in the room you can deal with it. If you have a few or more it could be a cancer and the bigger the player, the more they make, the more they can affect the attitude of the club. McDermott and Beane are trying to build something here and believe or not, culture matters. I love this trade and the Bills will be better for it.
xRUSHx Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 @mikerodak The Bills will save $5.73 million off their 2017 salary cap and $2.375 million off their 2018 salary cap. 2019-21 years get wiped out. If this is right Im glad he's gone, tough to get a team to take on his issues and contract, hope he does well in Jax so we get a 5th. 2019-21 gets wiped out, better then paying it all with cutting him, plus we get a draft pick out of it even if it's just a 6th it's something.
BobbyC81 Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 I don't know how any Bills fan can complain about this trade. Dareus is a waste and a cancer. Good riddance and a MASSIVE contract off the books. Win-win, addition by subtraction. Great day to be a Bills fan. And they have a chance at being successful now. I am not getting ahead of myself just yet. Just win a very winnable Raiders game. It'll be really funny if they somehow get a bigger pick for Boldin.
klos63 Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) This is such a horrible take. LT was one of the top 5 football players of all time. Once in a generation talent. He doesn't have to be a lunch pail type. Jesus. And Hoestetler was average at best. I guess we have a different definition of lunch pail- I think LT was a superstar, lunch pail is used by buffalo fans to describe someone without much talent. Not sure you comprehended what I wrote. Edited October 28, 2017 by klos63
LABILLBACKER Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) We get his ridiculous contract off our books. He was nothing more than an unreliable disconnected player. We get a 6th which could be a 5th. And now we have cap room. Culture does matter. Character does matter. McD is building a team, not a handful of overpaid Haynesworths...and for what it's worth if St Doug thinks he's getting the pre-drag race Dareus he's in for a rude awakening. Edited October 28, 2017 by LABILLBACKER
IDBillzFan Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) Meanwhile the Rams and Eagles lead their respective divisions at 6-1 and 5-2. Surely you're not suggesting they have those records BECAUSE of Sammy and Darby, right? Edited October 28, 2017 by LABillzFan
HappyDays Posted October 28, 2017 Author Posted October 28, 2017 And they have a chance at being successful now. I am not getting ahead of myself just yet. Just win a very winnable Raiders game. Before the season I didnt expect us to do anything this year. Looked like 8-8 to me. I am almost angry at the Bills for giving me hope they can make the playoffs, although more because the AFC is weak than anything weve actually accomplished. If we lose this weekend and/or dont make the playoffs I wont it sweat it too much. They are more concerned with 2018 at this point, anything we do this year is just credit to McDermott for having his guys prepared and Beane for bringing in stopgaps every week.
DasNootz Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) Take away His 1st round draft pick status (sunk cost) - he has 8 tackles this year and one sack. What huge market was there going to be this offseason for a guy with 18 tackles, 2 sacks and $54 million remaining owed? Now throw in that he's been late to games(s), an off the field headache, and I'm surprised we got any picks in return. His production is easily replaceable in this defense as shown already this season, and we are no worse off this season without him. Edited October 28, 2017 by DasNootz
dave mcbride Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) He did fine, but with talent. No SBs without Bill B. Was a worse coach in Dallas than Wade, IMO. But I always thought Wade was a pretty decent HC. Better DC, though. Then, the same guy who wanted to "shop for the groceries" went to Miami and started meddling in the groceries of their HC. Disaster. Lost a lot of respect for him, in those final few years. He took over a 2-14 Pats team, a 1-15 Giants team, a 1-15 miami team, and a dallas team that went 5-11 3 years in a row. Like I said, Bill B was with Parcells whenever he had great success--but, OK, not always as DC. And you might be right about Parcells being instrumental in developing Belicheat. That's fair. My god, Dean: the most important skill of a head coach is identifying and hiring the right staff. Parcells hired and promoted Belichick and Coughlin. Case closed. As Ive said countless times, Parcells is Morgoth and Belichick is Sauron. Coughlin is either Gothmog or Lord of the Nazgul; take your pick. But Morgoth rules them all at the end of the day. Edited October 28, 2017 by dave mcbride
The Dean Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 My god, Dean: the most important skill of a head coach is identifying and hiring the right staff. Parcells hired and promoted Belichick and Coughlin case closed. As Ive said countless times, Parcells is Morgoth and Belichick is Sauron. Coughlin is either Gothmog or Lord of the Nazgultake your pick. But Morgoth rules them all at the end of the day. NERD!
mannc Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 This. Addition by subtraction. Hard to promote a culture of accountability when your highest-paid player is a morose, indifferent slob. Imagine a "normal" workplace in which the highest-paid worker earns a salary 30x that of the average worker and also is one of the least productive and most ineffective employees at that business. Good luck with morale in that scenario. I wish dareus the person luck and happiness as he moves forward, but I am beyond thrilled that dareus the football player is a former bill.This is the main reason why Dareus is gone. The cap savings and the draft pick are just gravy.
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