CommonCents Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 One thing the Rams are not doing is throwing a lot of screens and such. There are a lot of short passes but it seemed to me, and I didn't watch all their games, that the Skins with Cousins threw a lot of quick WR screens and two yard passes and short slants and outs because Cousins is very good at that. Goff is a much different quarterback. They are rarely throwing those balls to Sammy. I agree numbers don't tell the whole story but all you can do is piece together the puzzle and see what it looks like. If you are going into that kind of depth you would also have to consider the amount of targets that went towards Jordan Reed. That was Sean's claim to fame while in Washington.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Bill have an open roster spot ... Two things: One awesome gif. Two glad we're rid of that fat malcontent pothead
Scott7975 Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 McVay has a totally different kind of quarterback in LA than Cousins. It's not the same offense he is running. Plus he is relying on his great RB a lot more. It's same coach but not really comparable. Cousins does certain stuff very well and McVay took advantage of it. Fair enough. As I said to 26, Id rather take it to a Watkins thread another time. I just don't think a decoy is worth having. He is going to want a lot of money. I look at it like having a kickoff specialist.
Koufax Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 People are going in circles on this. Remember two things: 1) None of the other 31 teams thought this player with this contract was worth a fifth rounder or they would have offered and we would have accepted. Some cap considerations, but really no team thinks he is worth a fifth, so you get why maybe they aren't just all undervaluing him, but maybe those 31 GMs know something and he isn't as good as we wish he were. 2) Our D-focused HC seems to know the game, and while there has been some aggressive house cleaning, I don't see a McCoy for Kiko lopsided deal just for the sake of cleaning house. He thinks that while Marcel isn't bad enough to deactivate or cut, he isn't going to change the outcome of a game this year.
SaviorPeterman Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Never a dull day in Buffalo it seems. I give Beane a lot of credit for making this happen because I was pretty sure we were going to have to simply cut Dareus after the season. But make no mistake about it, this was a 'we have to get this guy of the team ASAP' move and I can understand why some fans are made about a mere 6th round pick in return. But at least we got something and are rid of Overdorf and Whaley's horrendous contract (speaking of Overdorf can anybody explain why this clown is still employed here?) Only problem I have is with all the injuries piling up this could come back to bite the Bills. Conversely this move probably makes the Jags a legit Superbowl contender and could transform an already great defense into 2000 Ravens caliber meaning they could in fact win with a mediorce QB like Bortles. Will be interesting to see how this defense plays this week because if we do lose the Raiders as most expect and the defense is horrible again some critics will no doubt point the finger and Beane and McD for their eagerness to unload a player like Dareus.
Big Turk Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Thats irrelevant IMO. The cost/benefit dictated that you had to keep him through next year. You basically let him walk for Tanner Vallejo and $2M in cap space. Thats not worth the risk. I agree...this makes no sense on literally ANY level unless he was such a bad locker room presence they wanted him gone at any cost...and if they wanted him gone that bad they would have cut him. To get a 6th for him was ridiculous.
Dboodrow Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Buffalo will have about 14mil in dead cap space in 2018 from dareus. But they still gain 2 million in cap space in 2018 after the trade. And he is off the books fully after 2018. Bills save 2019 - 16 mil 2020 - 14.5 mil 2021 - 12.25mil So all in all this trade frees up about 2018 - 2 mil 2019 - 16 mil 2020 - 14 mil 2021 - 12 mil
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 I see the usual mcbeane haters are out in force and I'm enjoying the angst
Big Turk Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) Never a dull day in Buffalo it seems. I give Beane a lot of credit for making this happen because I was pretty sure we were going to have to simply cut Dareus after the season. But make no mistake about it, this was a 'we have to get this guy of the team ASAP' move and I can understand why some fans are made about a mere 6th round pick in return. But at least we got something and are rid of Overdorf and Whaley's horrendous contract (speaking of Overdorf can anybody explain why this clown is still employed here?) Only problem I have is with all the injuries piling up this could come back to bite the Bills. Conversely this move probably makes the Jags a legit Superbowl contender and could transform an already great defense into 2000 Ravens caliber meaning they could in fact win with a mediorce QB like Bortles. Will be interesting to see how this defense plays this week because if we do lose the Raiders as most expect and the defense is horrible again some critics will no doubt point the finger and Beane and McD for their eagerness to unload a player like Dareus. At some point talent matters. You just can't keep trading or cutting good players because they aren't "Your type of guys" and replacing them with scrubs who work hard. This isn't Walmart or your local McDonalds. Eventually the scrubs lower talent level becomes too great to overcome and we are getting pretty close to that point now...say what you want about Dareus, the guy had a lot of talent. Cedric Thornton isn't going to be taking on double teams and holding up any time soon. Edited October 28, 2017 by matter2003
Nihilarian Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 @mikerodak With Marcell Dareus, the Bills achieved a Brock Osweiler-level salary dump without having to give up a draft pick https://t.co/tADqqIjsEL?amp=1 When I see a move like this, I see this team moving away from the Clevelandish-like issues and into a real NFL winning team realm. Going back to that recent Whaley thread it boggles the mind to think that there are still Bills fans who think the guy was a good GM. I really like what this new regime is doing.
HappyDays Posted October 28, 2017 Author Posted October 28, 2017 Good, we finally off loaded Haynesworth. Better be a 2nd! Did anyone tell him yet?
klos63 Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 A few things: Those complaining that we traded an 'asset' for too little. Assets are determined by the market value, not the original purchase price. If I buy a stock at 150.00 per share and the next day it drops to 10.00 per share, its valuation is 10.00, not 150.00. Dareus was an overall #3 pick. While he flashed ability that warranted that valuation, his later actions; drug use resulting in suspensions as well as a seemingly casual attitude towards his role on defense has significantly reduced his value. We bought a stock high and it plummeted. We are simply selling off to end the ordeal. This leads me into my next point. Addition by subtraction. McD and Beane made a point to airlock anyone who didn't fit their profile of the right type of player for their team....except Dareus. Why? The contract. Cutting him would have hurt more than trading him. Until today, they didn't have any offers for him. So, with this new culture, the new Bills. Few penalties, giving 100% every play the entire game, we have a 100MM player with a half assed dedication playing about 33% of snaps. He needed to go. We are being celebrated as a team doing well with a lot of young/unknown players. Having a large price tag player, not fully contributing and with only part of his heart in the game on the team hurts us. In my opinion, he was gone the moment McD and Beane came on, they just needed to figure out how. Today, they did. Even if we didn't get a 6th rd pick for him, I support this move. New team, new philosophy and if you dont fit, you need to leave the locker room. The players we have are playing their asses off...all the way to 4th quarter 0:00. Thats a team I support. /rant Addition by subtraction is the only optimistic way of looking at this deal because we didn't receive any thing of any real value for Dareus.
YoloinOhio Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) I agree...this makes no sense on literally ANY level unless he was such a bad locker room presence they wanted him gone at any cost...and if they wanted him gone that bad they would have cut him. To get a 6th for him was ridiculous. Cutting him really wasnt an option until 2019https://www.buffalosportspage.com/spotrac-financial-look-marcell-dareus-trade/ The problem however, was the structure. Not only was Dareus awarded a massive $25M signing bonus, but another $7M option bonus kicked in the following season. Add on to that the scenario where his next year salary became guaranteed in the year prior, and the Bills had absolutely no way to release Dareus in a feasible manner until at LEAST 2019, 4 years into the deal. Edited October 28, 2017 by YoloinOhio
Big Turk Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 When I see a move like this, I see this team moving away from the Clevelandish-like issues and into a real NFL winning team realm. Going back to that recent Whaley thread it boggles the mind to think that there are still Bills fans who think the guy was a good GM. I really like what this new regime is doing. Except Osweiler was a never has been while Dareus was one of the best DT's in the NFL...but lets not let facts get in the way
Kelly the Dog Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 I agree numbers don't tell the whole story but all you can do is piece together the puzzle and see what it looks like. If you are going into that kind of depth you would also have to consider the amount of targets that went towards Jordan Reed. That was Sean's claim to fame while in Washington. Agreed. And other weapons, too. My point was that Cousins is a different kind of QB. I just looked at his game logs of last year and he had games of 38-56, 41-53, 30-43, 30-39, 32-47 alongside some Tyrod numbers. Guys make a lot of catches in those games. Goff isn't that guy and McVay isn't running that offense.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Except Osweiler was a never has been while Dareus was one of the best DT's in the NFL...but lets not let facts get in the way WAS being the key word there. He got paid and immediately blew sheep
JaCrispy Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Im actually shocked we were able to even get anything for him. His contract was full blown AIDS that you realistically couldnt have expected to get much for him. I wonder how much dead cap we will have now. My thoughts exactly...actually thought we might have to throw in a pick ala Brock Osweiler
BADOLBILZ Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 Garçon was the number one and I already went over his reception numbers. IIRC only three times in two years did he have less than 3 catches. In 32 games he never had less than 2 catches. Matchup league. Watkins and Goff aren't on the same page yet but if Josh Norman, Richard Sherman and Jalen Ramsey or AJ Buoye and Patrick Peterson are on Watkins........they aren't on Woods and Kupp. Been pitch and catch underneath all day for the Rams and those intermediate routes are what Goff throws best...........deep ball clearly his worst and that is Sammy's role in their offense..........but if you actually watch the games you still find safety help on Watkins on Goff's woeful deep throws even off of play action.
The Dean Posted October 28, 2017 Posted October 28, 2017 @mikerodak The Bills will save $5.73 million off their 2017 salary cap and $2.375 million off their 2018 salary cap. 2019-21 years get wiped out. So, even with the dead-cap expense, there is a net savings of $2+ million, next year? Correct? A drop in the bucket, but still good to know we didn't do into negative cap $$ for this. What does the cap savings for 2017 do for the Bills? (Other than line Pegula's pockets.) this board is craaazy, majority wanted 99 gone and now he is and y'all complain about it. New here? I see both sides. If he doesnt fit the culture, hes barely playing, take the hit when the season is halfway done, eat the 14 mil next year (which isnt actually paid) and get out of it rather than have the cancer grow. On the other side, this guy was a 3rd round pick. It motivated, hes a major contributor and was a bit piece of the franchise. A coach is supposed to gain buy in and it seems we are just sink or swim. He is worth more than a 6th, but it also another suspension away from 10 games. Either way, we know what hes capable of and we arent saving much this year or next to get rid of him. But if we are about long term, then it was good to happen like this. Virgil, you've been here long enough to know this is no place to be reasonable. I just thought you should know that I didnt read your post. OK, I'm worn out and couldn't get to the end. I have a few comments, not that anyone will probably care: Marcel has definately shown he has "maturity issues", and is one strike away from a season-long suspension, I think. His contract is huge. And, perhaps, he isn't a perfect fit for this defense. But the guy has HUGE talent (which was totally being wasted, this year). I'm not sure I understand him being called "a cancer" in the locker room. When a guy is really a cancer, you hear of other players actively complaining about him. Maybe I missed all the complaints, this year. The defense certainly isn't falling apart from the inside, which can be another indicator of a locker room cancer. He was a thorn in management's side, but that isn't the same as a "locker room cancer", IMO. I also read where some say he "stopped caring' after he got the big contract. Since I'm not a psychic, or someone who's pompous enough to know what's in someone else's mind, I can't speak to that. To me, this makes sense if, and only if, McBeane (we still using that?) believe the Bills are a better team without Dareus, than with him, THIS YEAR. Obviously they are not a more talented team without him, but perhaps they actually believe the Bills will perform better with him gone. Even if they believe they are better off long-term with him gone, do they think they had to make this move NOW to accomplish that? Perhaps they did. If so, OK. But that's the case, I would consider Dareus a failure of this regime, as much as it was a failure of the last one. If they tried everything they can to get Marcel to "buy in" (BTW, why are we sure he did not?) and failed---that is one big failure. If they didn't try everything, that's a failure of a bigger, and more important, kind, IMO. That's a "Chip Kelly" kind of failure. If he performs at a high level in Jacksonville, it's evidence (not proof) that this management team can't adapt well enough to get the most out of every player---even the troublesome kind. If he fails in Jacksonville, then this management team should be praised for ripping the bandaid off, and just moving on. Unless, of course, the Bills run D falls totally apart. With all that said, if they weren't going to use Marcel, then I guess getting anything for him was OK. I just can't understand why they didn't use him more. I thought the TB game might be the start of a turnaround for him, here.
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