Foxx Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 Yep. Carr is far, far, far ahead of Taylor, due to TT's "limitations" Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth : Completion Percentage : Taylor - 63.8 Carr - 64.6 Yards per Attempt Taylor - 6.9 Carr - 6.9 Interception Percentage Taylor - 1.0 Carr - 2.5 Touchdown Percentage Taylor - 4.1 Carr - 5.0 Plus 20yd Pass Play % Taylor - 10.7 Carr - 8.3 Maybe a slight edge to Carr, though it's pretty close. And I'll grant Carr has more overall yards than Taylor : 158 total yards more this season, passing and rushing combined. Of course Carr has Crabtree, Cooper, Cook, and Cordarrelle - but I guess we're not supposed to mention that when talking about Taylor's "limitations". It's probably not the polite thing to do. Supposed we switched places and Taylor (with his "limitations") was throwing to Crabtree and Cooper - Carr was throwing to Holmes and Tate. I bet that would wipe away Carr's edge over Taylor (such that it is) in the blink of an eye. I'd bet the edge would swing clearly the other way. What do you think? (Oops : This is highly embarrassing, but I gave Carr credit for having 158 more total yards than Taylor before checking whether Oakland has had their bye. They haven't. Carr is averaging less yards per game than Taylor) thanks for the perspective.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) so, you think it no coincidence and that positions 29 through 36, at this link tells you absolutely nothing? i beg to differ. what is the common denominator with all but Taylor and Wilson in that grouping? i'll tell you, they are first or second year players. outside of Wilson, that tells me that those players are improvising because they are not yet adept at reading defenses and have other areas as well where they are deficient which causes them to hold the ball longer.It tells you that they improvise. Scheme and skill set are as important to that stat as OL play. It tells you absolutely nothing. With the exception of Mariota, every mobile QB is 19th or lower. The most mobile guys at the bottom. Edited October 30, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Actually Savior Peterman. awww hell Edited October 30, 2017 by DaBillsFanSince1973
Foxx Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 It tells you that they improvise. Scheme and skill set are as important to that stat as OL play. It tells you absolutely nothing. With the exception of Mariota, every mobile QB is 19th or lower. The most mobile guys at the bottom. if you say so.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 if you say so.Do you disagree? Wentz, Cam, Smith, Tyrod, Wilson, Watson
GunnerBill Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 I don't agree time to throw is a useless stat. Not at all. Do I agree that mobile guys are likelyto hold it longer because those plays where they extend with their legs before throwing drags the average up? Yes. But I can also tell you Tyrod's best game this year was the Denver game when he got it out the quickest he has all year and the numbers backed that up. Some of his high time to throw is indecision. Some is extending plays, sure... and we don't have the precise breakdown of how much is each without the raw data on each play which is not published anywhere yet. So it is an incomplete evidence base but it is not a useless stat. Just needs to be understood in context.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 awww hell There is that Kutulu dude and Yeezuz character too Any of the 3 works
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 There is that Kutulu dude and Yeezuz character too Any of the 3 works the monkey and hey soos
Wayne Arnold Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 I don't agree time to throw is a useless stat. Not at all. Do I agree that mobile guys are likelyto hold it longer because those plays where they extend with their legs before throwing drags the average up? Yes. But I can also tell you Tyrod's best game this year was the Denver game when he got it out the quickest he has all year and the numbers backed that up. Some of his high time to throw is indecision. Some is extending plays, sure... and we don't have the precise breakdown of how much is each without the raw data on each play which is not published anywhere yet. So it is an incomplete evidence base but it is not a useless stat. Just needs to be understood in context. Indeed. That would be nice to have. Should be "time before first pressure" in addition to "time to throw" numbers.
klos63 Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 It's a negative because his high sack number is a result of his slow progression speed and indecisiveness.. that might be why I said, ' as long as he has time to throw'
Kelly the Dog Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 I don't agree time to throw is a useless stat. Not at all. Do I agree that mobile guys are likelyto hold it longer because those plays where they extend with their legs before throwing drags the average up? Yes. But I can also tell you Tyrod's best game this year was the Denver game when he got it out the quickest he has all year and the numbers backed that up. Some of his high time to throw is indecision. Some is extending plays, sure... and we don't have the precise breakdown of how much is each without the raw data on each play which is not published anywhere yet. So it is an incomplete evidence base but it is not a useless stat. Just needs to be understood in context. If a team throws a lot of deep drops it throws it off. If a team throws a lot of WR screens it throws it off a lot. A scrambler who looks to throw is different than one that tries to run. A team often playing from behind is going to call a lot more longer developing plays which throws it off. A team often playing ahead is going to throw a lot of short safe quicker passes throwing it off. The worst is what you mentioned, and why it's a terrible stat, because a scrambler like Tyrod has more time to throw because he is scrambling is the direct opposite of his OL giving him more time to throw.
BringBackOrton Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) If a team throws a lot of deep drops it throws it off. If a team throws a lot of WR screens it throws it off a lot. A scrambler who looks to throw is different than one that tries to run. A team often playing from behind is going to call a lot more longer developing plays which throws it off. A team often playing ahead is going to throw a lot of short safe quicker passes throwing it off. The worst is what you mentioned, and why it's a terrible stat, because a scrambler like Tyrod has more time to throw because he is scrambling is the direct opposite of his OL giving him more time to throw. I guess his point is that we don't know if Wilsons time to throw is shorter than TT's because he scrambles less, has a better OL, or is a better QB. It's a flawed stat. Just like all the rest. If there wasn't a flawed stat, there'd be no disagreement in QB rankings. Flawed stats aren't useless stats. They are just flawed. To my eyes TT has issues being decisive in the pocket with his throws, moreso than other QB's. The stat corroborates that. Edited October 31, 2017 by jmc12290
Scott7975 Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 The truth is that this team is winning games it would normally lose because the defense is playing out of their minds great football and the injuries that are seemingly inevitable at some point haven't hit yet... And I am as happy as anybody for what some have called winning boring football games - for a change! Right now Micah Hyde is having a Pro Bowl - Defensive MVP - All Pro(?) season and the rest of the secondary have jelled unusually quickly. More quickly than most would have banked on, before the season began. I always liked Leslie Frazier as a Defensive Coordinator and kudos to Gil Byrd the Defensive Secondary Coach... Since this part of my original post hasn't seemingly been mentioned i thought I'd mention it a second time... Would we be winning these games with much less than the stellar performance of the defense we've seen thus far? Injuries haven't hit yet? Humbar, Gaines, Poyer, Clay, Mathews(but he plays), Glenn was out a while. We've had our share. Indeed. That would be nice to have. Should be "time before first pressure" in addition to "time to throw" numbers. This I agree on.
transplantbillsfan Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 I guess his point is that we don't know if Wilsons time to throw is shorter than TT's because he scrambles less, has a better OL, or is a better QB. It's a flawed stat. Just like all the rest. If there wasn't a flawed stat, there'd be no disagreement in QB rankings. Flawed stats aren't useless stats. They are just flawed. To my eyes TT has issues being decisive in the pocket with his throws, moreso than other QB's. The stat corroborates that. But the real question is would you still take Siemian over Tyrod?
Scott7975 Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 But the real question is would you still take Siemian over Tyrod? floors, ceilings, Joe Montana, stuff.
Dr.Sack Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 If you win everyone loves you. I said this before the season began, under Rex Ryan Tyrod was a .500 QB. If McDermott is a good coach & continues to coach the team why cant TT be a winning QB? Rex Ryan was holding TT back IMO. TT is only scratching the surface of his abilities.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 If a team throws a lot of deep drops it throws it off. If a team throws a lot of WR screens it throws it off a lot. A scrambler who looks to throw is different than one that tries to run. A team often playing from behind is going to call a lot more longer developing plays which throws it off. A team often playing ahead is going to throw a lot of short safe quicker passes throwing it off. The worst is what you mentioned, and why it's a terrible stat, because a scrambler like Tyrod has more time to throw because he is scrambling is the direct opposite of his OL giving him more time to throw. Exactly, its totaly useless. There are a zillion factors that make up the stat which is why its so flawed. You mentioned a bunch of them. It isnt possible to compare 2 guys let alone 32. They would have to be running the exact same play, with the exact same talent, against the exact same defense, with the exact same progressions to have any sense.
Scott7975 Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 Exactly, its totaly useless. There are a zillion factors that make up the stat which is why its so flawed. You mentioned a bunch of them. It isnt possible to compare 2 guys let alone 32. They would have to be running the exact same play, with the exact same talent, against the exact same defense, with the exact same progressions to have any sense. I was doing some quick look through passing charts. They don't have this weeks out yet. In the previous weeks Carr had 191 passes. 91 of those passes were within 5 yards of the LOS. That's almost half his passes. That does not include ones the eeked on the 5 or 6 yardline. I wonder if that has anything to do with his ToT stat?
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 Tyrod Taylor is the best there is. No one is better. Yards don't matter. (do you like my Halloween costume?)
GunnerBill Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 Exactly, its totaly useless. There are a zillion factors that make up the stat which is why its so flawed. You mentioned a bunch of them. It isnt possible to compare 2 guys let alone 32. They would have to be running the exact same play, with the exact same talent, against the exact same defense, with the exact same progressions to have any sense. It's flawed. Not useless.
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