Tiberius Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Which all CAME FROM THE DOSSIER IN QUESTION. Horsecrap. Did we find out about the Trump Tower meeting from the dossier? Manafort was forced to leave way before anyone ever heard of it. Trump was buddying up Putin way before any of this dossier crap came to light. I suppose the dossier was responsible for Trump wanting to build a tower in Putin's Moscow? The dossier got Flynn fired? Was it the dossier or Jared Kushner who wanted the back channel to the Putin through the Russian embassy? Everything you just typed is speculative. You may be right but don't present it as fact. There's no evidence the FBI financed the Steele dossier. There's also no evidence that the Steele dossier prompted the Trump - Russia investigation. If there is, let me know. Page and Manafort were on the FBI's radar long before this dossier was conducted. Since some of what's on the dossier has been proven correct, I'm assuming Mueller interviewed Steele and judged for himself what was credible and what wasn't. You may turn out to be correct, but you're jumping the gun. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 COMPLAINT: HILLARY DOSSIER PAYMENTS BROKE LAW FBI On Hot Seat... Busted Media Downplay Revelations... ABC 'GMA' Gives Just Seconds of Airtime... Top Hillary lawyer lied for YEAR about dossier... MESS: Pressure builds on Mueller to recuse himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Yup, all this shows is how afraid Trump is of this investigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 If the shoe were on the foot this would be a major scandal getting wall to wall media coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 If the shoe were on the foot this would be a major scandal getting wall to wall media coverage. Hardly matters. By sometime Friday, Trump will tweet something so insipid that everyone will forget about this anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Hardly matters. By sometime Friday, Trump will tweet something so insipid that everyone will forget about this anyway. I'm actually looking forward to the JFK revelations tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Trying to find dirt on a opposing candidate is SOP in politics , is this a different case ? If it ends on Election Day, then yes it is SOP. But this was used after the election for nearly a year to crap on Trump. And it is still going on. Makes it look like a soft coup. Funny because Trump's opponents (losers) can't accept the outcome of the election. That hurts our democracy (where did I hear that before?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 That hurts our democracy (where did I hear that before?). Well...as the Democrats have been saying, Trump is the end of democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 1) Yeah but aren't you the one that told us that it would work, no matter what? You know you are. You said Hillary was inevitable because it was rigged. 2) I don't think you can hang this 100% on Obama-era flunkies, as attractive as that is. No. I think this goes all the way back to Reagan kicking ass/firing people at the failing institutions, all of them. Ever since that era, the institutions have done their level best to regain their autonomy, budget demands, and eventually got all the way back when they captured the Bush Administration(some of whom helped that along). Obama resisted capture by doing nothing, and eventually refused to even talk to them, which only allowed them more power. Obama was forced into a "red line in Syria" by the USIC, but then he just fecklessly ignored it. There is a time and a place for military responses. I agree that time is not everything/everywhere. But Trump destroying an airport to block chemical attacks is proportionate, low-risk, and relatively cheap. 3) I was never ignorant to what the word Neo-Con meant. If you recall, during the Bush years I repeatedly demanded that those using it as a pejorative define it, which they rarely could. Initially, I looked at Neo-Con views and methods with an open mind, largely because they had never been tried. Now? It's pretty clear that they suck. It's also pretty clear that the smart Neo-Cons, like Bill Krystal, knew from Day 1 that Trump was going to severely limit their influence. They try to make Trump into an "aberration", blah, blah, when he is merely the people's rejection of Neo-Conservatism...and socialism, environtology, 3rd wave feminism, identity politics, regulation as government jobs creator, 2nd amendment violators, cyclical Wall Street greed/malfeasance/bailouts, etc. 4) If you're speaking to Never Trumpers, you're exactly right. If however you're speaking to Trump supporters, you could not be more wrong. I don't know if you've noticed, but Trump has shown repeatedly that he is never going to put "side" over what he thinks is best for the country, unless he has to compromise to get something done, but if and only if he gets the better deal. His supporters heard that, liked it because they believed it, and now they are seeing it...which is exactly why Trump support through this time has gone up slightly, but never truly down. Put it this way: It is now a matter of fact that Trump has been screwed over, massively and repeatedly by the USIC. Do you really think he's gonna let that slide, when he doesn't even allow a single negative tweet to slide? Think critically upon that, and have a little patience. We are just now seeing the end of the USICs/Swamp politician's assault on Trump. The result? Trump is still standing and Corker and Flake are out, soon to by followed by more. Wait for Trump's counter-attack. It's coming, I assure you. Numbered for clarity: 1) I did say it would work. I was wrong, and admitted it many, many, many times. But I was not wrong about the fix being in. It just didn't work... because, and this is a good thing, the actual bad guys are on the run. 2) I have never subscribed to the definition of the "deep state" that's being passed around these days. I certainly do not pin this all on Obama era flunkies. This is the work of the shadow government/deep state that has never been acting in the interests of the American people. My entire thesis since the election has been that what is really happening is a civil war behind the scenes within the shadow government/deep state. It's unipolarism versus multipolarism and that remains the underlying ideological battle going on. This has never been about politics. It's not about protecting one political side over the other, but for me it's about protecting our democratic republic from becoming a full fledged oligarchical authoritarian state. 3) In this specific instance I'm referring to Frum and Krystol - both of whom are undoubtedly neocons and whom Gator/Tibs used to despise... but now that they're saying mean things about Trump they're trusted sources of information for Tibs and many liberals. Which makes my !@#$ing head explode. I've explained to GG many times in our rows that I do not believe the neocon establishment is the root of all evil or that every neocon is twisting their mustache and plotting to do dastardly deeds. But the central neocon foreign policy philosophy of regime change and unipolarism is the guiding philosophy of the shadow government/deep state who are the actual enemies of this country. THAT group, and their philosophy, are indeed enemies of our republic. 4) I was specifically talking to Tibs... but again, where we differ is in the belief that the ultimate power in this country rests in the Oval. I don't believe that for a moment. The ultimate power in this country still resides in the MiC, USIC and the deep state/shadow government - all of whom are currently openly at war with one another. Which gives us, the people, an opportunity if we're smart to take advantage of that infighting to learn the truth and reclaim our country. That sounds similar to the conspiracy theory that the CIA took out Kennedy to maintain tensions with the Soviet Union and Cuba as well as withdrawing troops from Vietnam. I need more information to come out before I come to that conclusion. It's accurate to say that the RNC and DNC worked extremely hard to prevent Trump (failed) and Sanders (succeeded) from getting the nomination. This is the question I have for you as this seems to be a passion of yours: Did Russia try to interfere in our election and if so is it to the degree being reported? The old tricks are the best tricks. That's one of the primary rules in espionage. Russia absolutely tried to interfere in our elections through propaganda and disinformation. Just like they did in every election we've ever had. Just like the United States does to allies and foes alike (Israel, France, Russia et al). I don't doubt that for a moment and have never denied it. But propaganda and disinformation are SOP and not at all worth the hysteria we've seen on this issue. They're not acts of war, nor are they something we need to protect against with state sponsored (or silicon valley sponsored) censorship. Restricting information from the people is never the answer in a democracy and shouldn't be accepted - especially by anyone who considers themselves a liberal or progressive... yet that's where the most push on this issue is coming from. So yes, Russia interfered but not at all to the levels that merit this kind of hysteria and neo-McCarthyism. Of course, propaganda and disinformation weren't the initial charges. That's not what got the people all riled up. The initial charges where that Russia hacked the election and the DNC. The evidence shows that both of these charges are entirely unfounded. No votes were changed or altered. No files were "hacked" by the FSB or GRU. What concerns me most of all about this is not that Russia used disinformation, but that our own IC used disinformation to try to sell a hyped up version of the events. This campaign didn't come out of nowhere. It didn't start in 2016 or even 2015. This was the last card in the deck these crooked elements within the USIC had left to play. Since at least 2011 this group has been actively trying to engineer a shooting war between Russian and American forces or proxies in both the Ukraine and Syria. There's a voluminous paper trail of official documentation that makes this quite clear to people who look into it. Russia, starting in 2011, was being positioned to be the next "big bad" because the war on terror was fading. If we're going to convince people that we need to live in a country that's surveilling you 24/7, violating your privacy and due process at will, and spending billions on defense projects per year on CREDIT CARDS - then there needs to be an enemy to justify that kind of expenditure. These people aren't acting in the interests of the American people, but in the interest of their true bosses - the defense contractors, financial institutions, and transnational corporations who fund their post government retirement careers. Remember, in 2012 the NDAA made it legal for the USIC to run information warfare campaigns domestically. What we're seeing in 2016 and 2017 is exactly that. The left and MSM latched onto this disinfo about Russian hacking the election because it assuaged their own culpability in getting the election so wrong. Which is exactly what the USIC planned on happening. The bottom line is this, and again there is incontrovertible evidence of what I'm about to say, unlike every other charge in this Russian/Trump narrative: Two weeks before 45 was sworn in, the heads of the US Intel community - who themselves are proven liars and perjurers (CIA torture program/NSA spying) - pushed the DNI/ICA onto the American public which relied upon falsified evidence to reach its conclusions. We cannot prove that they knew this evidence was falsified when they compiled the report, but it is their job to know the difference. Even if Brennan and Clapper didn't know the evidence was altered, the DNI/ICA was written and published deliberately to undercut Trump's ability to set his own foreign policy agenda. Trump's agenda, whether sincere or not, was a direct threat to their (and their bosses') agenda of regime change and perma-war. If Trump is too busy fending off Russian collusion and hacking stories, and if the public gets scared enough about Russian hacking our democracies stories, it would literally tie Trump's hands and prevent him from implementing the foreign policy platform he ran on, thus preserving their gravy train. That's where it's starting to look like this all stems from - which, yes, is similar to Kennedy's assassination which itself was a coup. The group controlling the Deep State/Shadow Government took power in this country with Kennedy's assassination. The Russian hacking narrative is an attempt to extend their reign into the next decade. Good news is, they're now fighting for their lives. If people would drop the political lenses on this one, and look at the evidence dispassionately, we have a real opportunity in this country to take back control. Which all CAME FROM THE DOSSIER IN QUESTION. I'm actually looking forward to the JFK revelations tomorrow. The damage control is already being spun if you look around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 The Steele dossier was a Clinton/DNC-funded operation supported by the FBI and influenced heavily by Russian operatives in the Kremlin. T he country has spent the last year with Obama intelligence officials, the media, and Democratic leaders pushing a narrative of Trump collusion with Russia to steal an election that was supposed to be won by Hillary Clinton. A meeting between Trump officials and a Russian who falsely promised dirt on Hillary Clinton is the best evidence — by far — to support this narrative. Yet here we have the realization that the Clinton campaign, the DNC, and the FBI all worked wittingly or unwittingly with Russians to affect the results of the 2016 election. Far from just meeting with a Russian and not getting dirt on a political opponent, these groups wittingly or unwittingly paid Russian operatives for disinformation to harm Trump during the 2016 election and beyond. Worse, these efforts perverted our justice system by forcing the attorney general to recuse himself for the crime of having attended meetings with Russian diplomats and spawning a massive, sprawling, limitless probe over Russia. These things are so much more damaging to the republic than a couple thousand dollars in ads on Facebook paid for by Russian trolls about a pipeline protest. Sessions should un-recuse, fire Mueller, and start investigating everyone involved with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Numbered for clarity: 1) I did say it would work. I was wrong, and admitted it many, many, many times. But I was not wrong about the fix being in. It just didn't work... because, and this is a good thing, the actual bad guys are on the run. 2) I have never subscribed to the definition of the "deep state" that's being passed around these days. I certainly do not pin this all on Obama era flunkies. This is the work of the shadow government/deep state that has never been acting in the interests of the American people. My entire thesis since the election has been that what is really happening is a civil war behind the scenes within the shadow government/deep state. It's unipolarism versus multipolarism and that remains the underlying ideological battle going on. This has never been about politics. It's not about protecting one political side over the other, but for me it's about protecting our democratic republic from becoming a full fledged oligarchical authoritarian state. 3) In this specific instance I'm referring to Frum and Krystol - both of whom are undoubtedly neocons and whom Gator/Tibs used to despise... but now that they're saying mean things about Trump they're trusted sources of information for Tibs and many liberals. Which makes my !@#$ing head explode. I've explained to GG many times in our rows that I do not believe the neocon establishment is the root of all evil or that every neocon is twisting their mustache and plotting to do dastardly deeds. But the central neocon foreign policy philosophy of regime change and unipolarism is the guiding philosophy of the shadow government/deep state who are the actual enemies of this country. THAT group, and their philosophy, are indeed enemies of our republic. 4) I was specifically talking to Tibs... but again, where we differ is in the belief that the ultimate power in this country rests in the Oval. I don't believe that for a moment. The ultimate power in this country still resides in the MiC, USIC and the deep state/shadow government - all of whom are currently openly at war with one another. Which gives us, the people, an opportunity if we're smart to take advantage of that infighting to learn the truth and reclaim our country. That sounds similar to the conspiracy theory that the CIA took out Kennedy to maintain tensions with the Soviet Union and Cuba as well as withdrawing troops from Vietnam. I need more information to come out before I come to that conclusion. It's accurate to say that the RNC and DNC worked extremely hard to prevent Trump (failed) and Sanders (succeeded) from getting the nomination. This is the question I have for you as this seems to be a passion of yours: Did Russia try to interfere in our election and if so is it to the degree being reported? The old tricks are the best tricks. That's one of the primary rules in espionage. Russia absolutely tried to interfere in our elections through propaganda and disinformation. Just like they did in every election we've ever had. Just like the United States does to allies and foes alike (Israel, France, Russia et al). I don't doubt that for a moment and have never denied it. But propaganda and disinformation are SOP and not at allconclusions. We cannot prove that they knew this evidence was falsified when they compiled the report, but it is their job to know the difference. Even if Brennan and Clapper didn't know the evidence was altered, the DNI/ICA was written and published deliberately to undercut Trump's ability to set his own foreign policy agenda. Trump's agenda, whether sincere or not, was a direct threat to their (and their bosses') agenda of regime change and perma-war. If Trump is too busy fending off Russian collusion and hacking stories, and if the public gets scared enough about Russian hacking our democracies stories, it would literally tie Trump's hands and prevent him from implementing the foreign policy platform he ran on, thus preserving their gravy train. That's where it's starting to look like this all stems from - which, yes, is similar to Kennedy's assassination which itself was a coup. The group controlling the Deep State/Shadow Government took power in this country with Kennedy's assassination. The Russian hacking narrative is an attempt to extend their reign into the next decade. What a bunch of bunk. "Don't believe your lying eyes" argument. Trump is so obviously connected to Russia and all his lies, all the corrupt officials of his, all the money laundering and shady business deals are just suppose to be ignored. Let's not forget that Putin's government is a criminal gang and they have their hooks in our bigoted president Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Tibs entering tertiary stages of Trump Derangement Syndrome, about the same as tertiary syphilis without the fun in obtaining it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Tibs entering tertiary stages of Trump Derangement Syndrome, about the same as tertiary syphilis without the fun in obtaining it Not true. Trump's presidency would be in the toilet whether or not he was compromised by the Russians. You could care less he is in bed with a criminal regime. That's really pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Tibs will have to work triple overtime to try to cover up the latest criminal activity of the Dems. Juggle it between asking if they want fries with that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Tibs will have to work triple overtime to try to cover up the latest criminal activity of the Dems. Juggle it between asking if they want fries with that.... I have considered working at fast food when I retire. Can't sit around and do nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Liberals finding out that they aren't exempt from harassment charges just because they donate $$ to abortion causes. The only reason they support it is if they knock up their friend's wife or some woman they don't care about, so they can get away scot-free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Liberals finding out that they aren't exempt from harassment charges just because they donate $$ to abortion causes. The only reason they support it is if they knock up their friend's wife or some woman they don't care about, so they can get away scot-free. Oh, is that way! Then why did that "Pro-Life" Congressman urge his bi tch to get vacuum sucked? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/03/gop-rep-repeatedly-promoted-pro-life-stance-a-week-after-reportedly-telling-mistress-to-get-abortion/?utm_term=.ffbb83863a04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 I have considered working at fast food when I retire. Can't sit around and do nothing Why not just stay with the laundromat job? Fast food might just be too challenging for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Why not just stay with the laundromat job? Fast food might just be too challenging for you. Dirty underwear? No thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Hillary recovering on her own terms at Chappaqua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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