Bangarang Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Come on now, one look at NFL's QB statistics and we see that Tyrod is ranked 29th in yards, 30th in attempts (Deshaun Watson is ranked 29th in attempts and has 15 TDs and 5 picks to Taylor's 7 TD's an 2 picks), dead last in yards per game, and 22nd in QB rating, why? because it's easy to get a good passer rating throwing check-downs to your RB and TE, blame it on the offensive run first scheme all you want but running the ball is supposed to open up the passing game w/ play action. Thanks for the response. Youve certainly given us a lot to think about.
HappyDays Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Come on now, one look at NFL's QB statistics and we see that Tyrod is ranked 29th in yards, 30th in attempts (Deshaun Watson is ranked 29th in attempts and has 15 TDs and 5 picks to Taylor's 7 TD's an 2 picks), dead last in yards per game, and 22nd in QB rating, why? because it's easy to get a good passer rating throwing check-downs to your RB and TE, blame it on the offensive run first scheme all you want but running the ball is supposed to open up the passing game w/ play action. No, Tyrod is definitely the 4th best QB in the league. Think about it. Think about it.
Bangarang Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 No, Tyrod is definitely the 4th best QB in the league. Think about it. Think about it. Technically we can bump him up a spot since Rodgers is out injured.
HappyDays Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Technically we can bump him up a spot since Rodgers is out injured. I didnt want to say it but deep down we all know hes better than Rodgers, injured or not.
Bangarang Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) I didnt want to say it but deep down we all know hes better than Rodgers, injured or not. He may be better than Rodgers but hes no Peterman. Edited October 23, 2017 by Bangarang
Buftex Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 I am a Tryod supporter, and I think he has played very well, in all 4 of our victories this year. That said, you guys who think Winston is not good are nuts. He may not be Aaron Rodgers good, but he is kinda Brett Favre good, in my opinion.
dave mcbride Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Winston is much like Andrew Luck, flashy but he will lose you as many games as he wins you. ?? The Colts, who are a terrible franchise with terrible talent, are 43-27 when Luck starts for them.
Ramza86 Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Hes one of the middle of the pack QBs. Aggressive type.....will throw it into coverage for his guys.
GunnerBill Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Does he really have a "huge ceiling" any more? It seems unrealistic to think that Winston -- or any other QB -- is going to continue to improve significantly throughout their career. Generally, it takes about three years of starting for QBs to reach their best playing level, and from there on, the best ones will increase somewhat incrementally because they get smarter and wiser from experience, but most will stay about where they are, and their bad habits will tend to stay ingrained. This is Winston's third year as a full time starter, so it's unlikely that he's going to get significantly better in the future or lose the gunslinger mentality. There's not much more that TB can do to help him improve, either, since they already field a respectable OL, a nice contingent of receivers and decent RBs. Taylor, OTOH, who is also in his third year as a starter, could benefit greatly from the Bills providing him with a better WR corps, better OL play, and, this year at least, a better running game. Is it going to make him an elite QB? Highly unlikely, but it could probably put him on the same level as Dalton, Flacco, Tannehill, Bradford, etc.which wouldn't be bad. If you watch games around the league, the two common denominators for QB "success" is effective OL play and good receivers. Having a strong running game helps, too. Numerous big name QBs have had disastrous game or are having seasons this year because their teams are lacking in those areas. Winston is still improving. Both the eye test and the numbers support that. That said I have seen some improvements in Tyrod too... more than I expected at this stage of his career.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Technically we can bump him up a spot since Rodgers is out injured. Go one more Brady is in decline
SoTier Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Gotcha. One advantage TT has is he was able to sit and learn the NFL game for a few years without being thrown into the "fire" as a rookie. He sat for 4 years in Baltimore. He can sit back, take it all in and kinda have a feel for what he's getting into. Winston has the Bucs hopes riding on his shoulders and he's only 23. This is in no way a knock on TT. The OP asked if Winston is a real QB. He's still a puppy by league standards. He will get better, as opposed to what So Tier says. If we beat the Raiders and Carr has a similar game to Winston, is he now not a real QB? I didn't say he wouldn't get better. I said I didn't think he would get significantly better ... make more large improvements like he did between his rookie season and last season and over last season. That's because his issues don't seem to be related to things he can "fix" like getting better at reading defenses. He's probably not going to be able to curb his gunslinger mentality entirely, and that's his worst fault. He can exercise more self-discipline as he gains experience, but when the chips are down, he's not always going to be able to ignore the urge to try to force the ball where he shouldn't. Favre played for 20 years, and he never did quite master that either.
fansince88 Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 1. Brady 2. Rodgers 3. Brees 5. Tyrod 4. Peterman 32. Everyone else fixed.
SoTier Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Winston is still improving. Both the eye test and the numbers support that. That said I have seen some improvements in Tyrod too... more than I expected at this stage of his career. I think Jameis is a very good QB now, but I think his future improvement is probably limited by his temperament ... his gunslinger mentalitiy is part of who he is, and that's not something he can really change. Most QBs, even the best ones, tend to not make huge improvements after about their third years as full time starters. Most of their improvements after they've been starters for three years or so tend to come from more experience or from improved situations. Russell Wilson played really well as a rookie, but he was great as a sophomore and even better as a third year QB. He's probably even better now because of his experience, but the difference between his play between now and when he was a third year player is probably no where near the difference between his first and second year or his second and third years. I don't think Tyrod's improvement this year is all that surprising in that this is his third year as a full time starter. I had hoped to see more improvement from him last season but maybe Dennison's system actually fits him better. I think he'd do even better if the Bills had better WRs but Clay and O'Reilly seem to have taken up some of the slack. Perhaps Deonte Thomas will, too.
GunnerBill Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 So you think Tyrod will improve in year 3 but Jameis won't? Or won't as much? That seems the wrong way round to me but each to their own. I think Jameis will be a top 10 QB by year's end.
SoTier Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 So you think Tyrod will improve in year 3 but Jameis won't? Or won't as much? That seems the wrong way round to me but each to their own. I think Jameis will be a top 10 QB by year's end. The way things are going in the NFL this season, both Jameis and Tyrod might be Top Ten QBs by year's end simply by attrition. I think both can and will improve some this year but probably not all that much in the future. The original post I responded to suggested that Winston's future improvement was almost unlimited. I think Jameis is limited by his temperament. I think that Tyrod is limited also but he might improve simply because the situation on the team improved (ie, OL and WRs). Too many fans think QBs exist in a vacuum, that they aren't affected by their team's situation. When a QB is a real bust, he's probably a bust anywhere, but sometimes decent QBs can look better or worse depending what resources the team provides for them. Would either Jameis or Tyrod look decent playing for Indy this season? I doubt that Andrew Luck looks decent playing for Indy ...
Dopey Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 I didn't say he wouldn't get better. I said I didn't think he would get significantly better ... make more large improvements like he did between his rookie season and last season and over last season. That's because his issues don't seem to be related to things he can "fix" like getting better at reading defenses. He's probably not going to be able to curb his gunslinger mentality entirely, and that's his worst fault. He can exercise more self-discipline as he gains experience, but when the chips are down, he's not always going to be able to ignore the urge to try to force the ball where he shouldn't. Favre played for 20 years, and he never did quite master that either. My bad, hope it didn't sound like I was calling you out. Not my intention.
Scott7975 Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Go one more Brady is in decline Honestly Brees is probably going to retire soon so we might as well move Tyrod to the top now.
grb Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) Come on now, one look at NFL's QB statistics and we see that Tyrod is ranked 29th in yards, 30th in attempts (Deshaun Watson is ranked 29th in attempts and has 15 TDs and 5 picks to Taylor's 7 TD's an 2 picks), dead last in yards per game, and 22nd in QB rating, why? because it's easy to get a good passer rating throwing check-downs to your RB and TE, blame it on the offensive run first scheme all you want but running the ball is supposed to open up the passing game w/ play action. "It's easy to get a good passer rating throwing check-downs...." ?!? Taylor may have less attempts than typical, but he makes big plays at a higher rate than average. How can this be tested? Simple : The NFL tracks +20yd pass plays, so it's easy to divide that number by attempts for a ratio. Currently leading in this big-play rate is Goff, Brady, Brees and Cousins. Then come Watson, slightly ahead of Taylor, who is sixth in the league. He pushes the ball downfield at a higher rate than : Carson Palmer Ben Roethlisberger Cam Newton Alex Smith Russell Wilson Carson Wentz Derek Carr Aaron Rodgers Dak Prescott Matthew Stafford Jameis Winston That doesn't sound like checkdown-charlie, does it? Edited October 23, 2017 by grb
John from Riverside Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 that works both ways....we dont have to slam Tyrod to appreciate the talent of other qbs TT has trouble with accuracy, read “ball placement.” It would be great to have his receiver corps but that won’t fix his throwing issues. Actually....it would a little bit If players that have "large catch radius" like Zay Jones not dropping balls that him him right in the hands it would go a LONG way
Nuncha Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 1. Brady 2. Rodgers 3. Brees 4. Tyrod 32. Everyone else LOL^^^ Now that's funny.
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