My beef with Teflon Tom

[jahnyc]

I don't understand why TD's supporters get so defensive about his performance to date. I am not calling for him to be fired, but his tenure has, at best, yielded mixed results. No playoffs and only one winning season (barely).

[ajzepp]

I don't understand why TD's supporters get so defensive about his performance to date.  I am not calling for him to be fired, but his tenure has, at best, yielded mixed results.  No playoffs and only one winning season (barely).

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I admit that I am a TD supporter who gets defensive. The reason I do so is because I question whether those of you who say he's either not been successful or 'the jury is still out' or whatever are not looking at the whole picture. In short, I feel that if some of you had the power to oust TD, you'd be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Nobody is saying that we should be happy as fans with the lack of playoff games since TD's been here. Nobody is saying that TD is perfect, either. The simple fact is that TD has been able to continually bring us talent, either to upgrade a particular position or to fill in a hole created by someone who went elsewhere. Two out of the three aspects of our team are at or near the top of the NFL. TD is a prudent GM who makes good, solid decisions in addition to taking calculated risks. All of his moves do not work out, obviously. I just think that those of you who just look at our record and use that as your only determinant as to whether TD should stay or go are just missing the boat.

 

As I've said in prior posts, TD may not have given us the winner we all want as of yet, but he has given me confidence that he's not going to stop trying until he gets it right. And yes, I very strongly believe he is more than capable of accomplishing that.

[Typical TBD Guy]

In short, I feel that if some of you had the power to oust TD, you'd be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

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Well I shouldn't speak for every TD dissenter, but as for me - like I stated earlier - I'm giving TD a full 6 years (though quite reluctantly) to get us into the playoffs before calling for his head.

 

The purpose of my post wasn't even a call for TD's firing; it was to counter all the pro-TD propaganda that I've read on this board. When anyone has a differing opinion about TD's job or when they question his decisions, they get pounced upon by all the board loyalists (you know who you are) and accused of being retarded.

 

I would like a Bills message board where people aren't afraid to ask, "hey, do you think this is a good move on TD's part?" That's supposed to be the whole point of TSW. But right now, the common response to that type of question is, "who are you to question TD? That's his job, and you're just a moronic fan. So what do you know?"

[ajzepp]

Well I shouldn't speak for every TD dissenter, but as for me - like I stated earlier - I'm giving TD a full 6 years (though quite reluctantly) to get us into the playoffs before calling for his head.

 

The purpose of my post wasn't even a call for TD's firing; it was to counter all the pro-TD propaganda that I've read on this board. When anyone has a differing opinion about TD's job or when they question his decisions, they get pounced upon by all the board loyalists (you know who you are) and accused of being retarded.

 

I would like a Bills message board where people aren't afraid to ask, "hey, do you think this is a good move on TD's part?" That's supposed to be the whole point of TSW. But right now, the common response to that type of question is, "who are you to question TD? That's his job, and you're just a moronic fan. So what do you know?"

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Well if you explain it in those terms, I completely agree with you. Hell, if we couldn't debate and question TD, MM, or any other aspect of the team this would be a pretty damn boring place to spend time. I know that even though your post was meant to point out what you felt were his failings, that you also recongize where he's done the right thing, too. I think what gets on my nerves (not that I'm anything special.....this is just my opinion) is when people are so fickle and close-minded that if they had things their way we'd be the Redskins of the AFC. I also think it's ridiculous that some people seem to think hindsight is really an available tool at the time a decision is made. People don't think before they post, and that honestly drives me nuts. How easy is it to just sit here and criticize TD or anyone else for decisions that were made two years ago? That's bullsh*t, man. At the same time, even if you USE hindsight to forumlate a criticism of TD, ol' whitey still comes out looking pretty damn good, in my opinion.

[Sound_n_Fury]

I agree with points 1 and 5, but that’s it.

 

The draft is always a crap shoot and I’m not ready to write off MW or RD yet. The Pats, Jets and Fins also had unproductive 2002 drafts, along with many other teams.

 

Funny, but not many folks were wondering why DB was still on the team last season between weeks 6-16.

 

The Bills were a handful of plays away from making the playoffs in 2004 (I still can’t get over how Pittsburgh was able to run on us in that last game). Maybe TD should have played DT against the Steelers and stopped a few of those running plays.

 

Villarial signed a 4-year, $12 million deal which is not bad given what Guards are getting this year. TT’s deal is probably below average given the escalation in interior OL salaries over the past two years. $1.5 million salaries for CW and PP are high for reserves/special teamers, but they’re probably not far off the NFL per-player average.

 

While everything starts up front, what winning team would you point to that’s been built by focusing their budgets on the OL and DL? The Pats certainly don’t have a high-price OL and Seymour’s probably the only DL getting big bucks. LBs and “skill” players have always commanded the biggest share of the salary pool will probably continue to do so in the future.

 

I’m comfortable with the way TD manages the cap. He doesn’t do stupid things like the ‘Skins or Cowboys ($30 million in signing bonuses this year!) that’ll guarantee a rebuilding purge down the road. I still think he has one more FA deal up his sleeve, so let’s see how things play out before we mount our next “run ‘em out of town” crusade.

 

Lastly, your comment that “…31 other GM's in the league could have done a better job in the past 4 years for Mr. Wilson” is pretty silly. TD has made his share of mistakes, but his batting average is probably in the top one-third of the league, with more hits than misses.

 

Do you really think the Bills are worse off today than back in Wade Philips’ last year?

[Fezmid]

$1.5 million salaries for CW and PP are high

 

And let me tell you, I can't WAIT to start collecting that $1.5 million salary!!!

 

CW

[Typical TBD Guy]

Lastly, your comment that “…31 other GM's in the league could have done a better job in the past 4 years for Mr. Wilson” is pretty silly.   TD has made his share of mistakes, but his batting average is probably in the top one-third of the league, with more hits than misses.

 

Do you really think the Bills are worse off today than back in Wade Philips’ last year?

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Here was my actual comment: "So isn't it possible that TD is not making the best decisions for our Bills, with respect to the other 31 GM's in the league that could have been doing a better job in the past 4 years for Mr. Wilson?"

 

Here's a better wording of what I meant to say: "So isn't it possible that TD is not making the best decisions for our Bills, and that there might be other GM's in the league that could have done a better job in the past 4 years for Mr. Wilson?"

 

And no, I don't think the Bills are worse off than in the year 2000. I actually prefer TD's method of spending restraint to the late Butler's. But TD can and does make mistakes, and he should be held equally accountable for them as he is when making some of his great moves like drafting McGahee and Clements and so forth...

 

The latest complaint I have with the "TD Apologists" if I can call them that, is with regards to fixing the OL. A lot of them will point to any OL decision made and say, "Don't question McNally/TD. They are geniuses. They know what they are doing." No doubt, McNally and TD are great at what they do. Now way in hell am I calling for McNally's head in the next two years! But sometimes he and TD will make personnel evaluation mistakes. For example, replacing the starting LG last year with Tucker and Lawrence Smith. That was a mistake in evaluating Tucker and Smith. And people around this board should feel comfortable in saying something along the lines of "hey, I don't think Tucker and/or Smith is good enough. I think TD should go out and squeeze 'so and so' under the cap," without being tarred and feathered.

[ajzepp]

The latest complaint I have with the "TD Apologists"  if I can call them that, is with regards to fixing the OL. A lot of them will point to any OL decision made and say, "Don't question McNally/TD. They are geniuses. They know what they are doing." No doubt, McNally and TD are great at what they do. Now way in hell am I calling for McNally's head in the next two years! But sometimes he and TD will make personnel evaluation mistakes. For example, replacing the starting LG last year with Tucker and Lawrence Smith. That was a mistake in evaluating Tucker and Smith. And people around this board should feel comfortable in saying something along the lines of "hey, I don't think Tucker and/or Smith is good enough. I think TD should go out and squeeze 'so and so' under the cap," without being tarred and feathered.

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I'd like to respond to this if you don't mind......

 

Admittedly, there is always room for debate and discussion.....even second-guessing. But Kelso, don't you also think that people on here often post something so ridiculous that it gives the impression that TD and McNally are completely clueless? Do you know what I mean? Question their decisions, sure.....but my gosh, to imply that TD and McNally are asleep at the wheel is just ludicrous. And yes, I do recognize that sometimes people are being facetious and/or sarcastic. But there are also plenty of examples that fit the description above.

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

I don't understand why TD's supporters get so defensive about his performance to date.  I am not calling for him to be fired, but his tenure has, at best, yielded mixed results.  No playoffs and only one winning season (barely).

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Maybe they compare ol Whitey to what Giambra and Masiello are doing and see huge successes.

 

 

Otherwise.....???

 

 

[bleedinblue]

Carmen Policy was a genius....until everyone realized that he'd mortgaged the niners for the next 10 years. Our own John Butler was the king of overspend, especially on favorite vetrans and continued on in SD. Bill Polian is the most pompus, arrogant SOB you'll ever meet. Point is, TD is no better nor any worse than the majority of GM's in this league, in fact he probably better than most. Like artists, GM's are tough to judge till they're gone from the scene. I, for one, will wait and see, IMHO this team is in good shape and headed in the right direction.

[Kelly the Dog]

Kelso, would you trade the Bills entire roster, coaches and salary cap and all, for The NY Jets total roster?

 

No way I would. Or the Chargers for that matter. Or the Broncos. Or the Falcons. Or the Rams. Or the Seahawks.

 

See a trend?

[ajzepp]

Kelso, would you trade the Bills entire roster, coaches and salary cap and all, for The NY Jets total roster?

 

No way I would. Or the Chargers for that matter. Or the Broncos. Or the Falcons. Or the Rams. Or the Seahawks.

 

See a trend?

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Exactly, doggie. Take a step back (not you personally.....) and think about it......TD turned Bledsoe/Henry/PP into Losman/McGahee/Evans in the course of two years. We already know that two of the three 'new guys' has shown flashes of not just being good, but VERY good......if Losman can follow suit, we've got our three main skill positions set for the next ten years. And this is on top of everything else TD has done with the D and ST.

 

Speaking of the Seahawks, how long have they been milking the 'on the verge' label now? How many years has Holmgren had to produce? That fan base has GOT to be frustrated. And what about the Rams? Well, okay, they won it all not long ago. But we beat them so bad that Martz looked like Vermeil with all the crying he was doing after the game. We have a very good roster here......we just have to put it all together more consistently game in and game out.

[IndyMark]

I can tell you probably work in the "research industry" (i.e., academia?) as you say, because of the obvious tone of arrogance in your response. Do you address all other lessers in your life in this manner, as well?

 

To complain that my post wasn't backed well enough in research is ridiculous, given that this was written on a Friday night and on a football message board where people are generally allowed to give their honest opinions about their favorite team.

 

Yes, it is true. I gave a complete list of TD's negatives without providing a complete list of his positives OR without providing the circumstances surrounding each of his negatives.

 

But I did so intentionally. Why give a complete list of TD's positives? I had already stated that this wasn't even the purpose of my thread, since accolades thrown to TD can be found in virtually every other thread around here.

 

And why should I give the circumstances surrounding each of TD's bad moves? You can do that for any bad GM; there's almost always a reason to be provided that can justify why any of those GM's did anything. But at some point the excuses need to stop, and you have to look at the cold hard results - otherwise there would never be a changing of the guard for any NFL GM position.

 

Speaking of the cold hard results, here's the record of the Bills in the 21st century:

 

2000: 8-8

2001: 3-13

2002: 8-8

2003: 6-10

2004: 9-7

 

That, my friends, is as I said, "Bengals-esque." Oh right, I forgot the 9-7 record. Nevermind that we went 5-7 outside the pathetic NFC West...   I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Only 5 other NFL teams have had a playoff drought as long or longer than we have. Since 1999, there have been plenty of teams who have recovered more quickly from salary cap jail and who have made the playoffs with a payroll much less than the cap limit.

 

But go ahead. Keep bringing the excuses. In 2005, it will be that we had a rookie QB, and yes, technically you can't disagree with that, right? That's an understandable excuse, right?

 

And in 2006, a bulk of our defensive stars will be eligible for free agency, and we probably won't have the money to resign or replace them... so our defense in 2006 will be bad. So there's the potential explanation for 2006!

 

Well, enough of this "rant." I apologize for not writing a well-backed 10 page academic essay analyzing TD's reign as Bills GM. In the meantime, I promise to post less about my GM concerns and post more about how delicious this Teflon Tom Kool-Aid tastes. Nothing controversial from me anymore. No more arguments. I only want to make friends from now on. We just signed QB Kelly Holcomb? Outstanding! Never mind LT! Mike Gandy was once a third round draft pick?! Superb! Put him in at LG immediately!

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Always remember, when you go fishing you might catch something. If you need help translating here it is, if you are going to make some truly bizzare off the shelf shoot from the hip comment on the Bengal-esque nature of our Bills you better nut up and be ready for an equal reply.

 

I love the logic of the instigators when they get a reply they do not like. "This is a football board and I have the right to blah blah blah". Well guess what, I also have the right to post an equally moronic post. What is the problem?

 

Of course I knew I sounded pompous, jesus did you think I am genuinely like that? The thing is, there is no GM in the league that could do a better job than what TD is doing given our circumstances. The only GM that did a better job than TD this year is the one who one a superbowl. That is it.

 

Living in Colt country, I can say Polian is about on his last leg from a fan supportive perspective for several reasons. First, he is genuinely pompous (as opposed to my staged version - though thanks for the compliment). Second knowing full well there defensive need he drafts Reggie Wayne and Dallas xxxxx (cant remember his last name) with their preliminary picks in 2 of the last 3 drafts or something similar.

 

Do you think those moves are iditoic? I do. Sure his Colts are in the playoffs, but I believe everyone feels they have underperformed for the third straight year. In addition, with arguably the best QB to ever play the game, a phenomonal WR, and a super RB he still drafted offense. Sure this year he went defense a bit earlier in the draft, but not at the positions that were targeted.

 

Again the point being, you can pick on and critique anyone in any profession at any time and have "a point", that is not difficult. As such, you have that right and I have the right to respond accordingly...or any way I want to.

 

It is a two-way street.

[Typical TBD Guy]

The thing is, there is no GM in the league that could do a better job than what TD is doing given our circumstances.  The only GM that did a better job than TD this year is the one who one a superbowl. That is it.

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I completely disagree with this statement. So you're saying that TD is the second-best GM in the NFL? Or that no other GM could have done a better job for the Bills in the past 4 years?

[Max Fischer]

I'll just reply by making the same post over and over until someone can provide a well reasoned reply.

 

Besides our "cap hell" year (when Bills had no money), all I know is we haven't signed many terrible FA lately. It's amazing to me how many people freakout but can't name a single player TD/Bills have "missed."

 

How many can name a single player TD/Bills have really scewed up and should have signed? Winfield? Wiley? Peerless Price? Sam Cowart? How about ANY FA on any team?

 

Hard to even make the argument the Bills "overpaid" for Bledsoe -- hell the ticket sales alone (and keeping Bills in Buffalo) were more than worth the investment.

You can even say Bledsoe's presence helped make Peerless a 1st Round Pick, Moulds decided to stay, induced Spikes/Adams/Milloy to sign and we indirectly got the "future" in Losman and McGahee.

 

The biggest bunch of wusses. I thought Bills fans were knowledgable about off-season football strategy and won't go bezerk before the first day of FA is over, let alone the first day of camp or the first quarter of the season.

 

-- Last year the Bills had one of the BEST defenses and Special teams. The OL gelled and we were a few boneheaded plays away from the playoffs. I like our chances next year. Holcomb and Grandy are a good start . . . can someone provide a single example of what they would have done differently this offseason and why?

[Dawgg]

Nonsense.

 

TD's first moves in Buffalo were the hiring of Gregg Williams (a mistake he himself admits) and keeping Rob Johnson at the helm. Both moves set the franchise back considerably. Perhaps it is understandable that he made a mistake in hiring his first head coach -- but to keep him around after 2 years when it was clear he wasn't capable of doing the job... I don't think other GMs would have done that.

 

Not to say TD has done a horrible job here -- I don't believe that. To claim that he has done the best job possible is a stretch.

 

The thing is, there is no GM in the league that could do a better job than what TD is doing given our circumstances.  The only GM that did a better job than TD this year is the one who one a superbowl. That is it.

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[ajzepp]

I'll just reply by making the same post over and over until someone can provide a well reasoned reply.

 

Besides our "cap hell" year (when Bills had no money), all I know is we haven't signed many terrible FA lately. It's amazing to me how many people freakout but can't name a single player TD/Bills have "missed."

 

How many can name a single player TD/Bills have really scewed up and should have signed? Winfield? Wiley? Peerless Price? Sam Cowart? How about ANY FA on any team?

 

Hard to even make the argument the Bills "overpaid" for Bledsoe -- hell the ticket sales alone (and keeping Bills in Buffalo) were more than worth the investment.

You can even say Bledsoe's presence helped make Peerless a 1st Round Pick, Moulds decided to stay, induced Spikes/Adams/Milloy to sign and we indirectly got the "future" in Losman and McGahee.

 

The biggest bunch of wusses. I thought Bills fans were knowledgable about off-season football strategy and won't go bezerk before the first day of FA is over, let alone the first day of camp or the first quarter of the season.

 

-- Last year the Bills had one of the BEST defenses and Special teams.  The OL gelled and we were a few boneheaded plays away from the playoffs.  I like our chances next year.  Holcomb and Grandy are a good start . . . can someone provide a single example of what they would have done differently this offseason and why?

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Nice job, bro

[Typical TBD Guy]

Holcomb and Grandy are a good start . . . can someone provide a single example of what they would have done differently this offseason and why?

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So glad you asked, Max! Here's what I 'd do. Given the current cap constraints - about 5 million under? - I would:

 

A. Sign Keydrick Vincent of the Steelers as our starting LG.

B. Sign Fred Miller of the Titans as our starting RT.

C. Sign Rich Braham of the Bengals as our starting C.

D. Move MW to LT, leave Villarial at RG, and keep Tucker, Gandy, McFarland, and Sobieski as our standard #6-#9 OL backups.

E. Cut Teague and Prioleau.

F. Trade Henry for some draft picks, probably during the day of the draft since that is when we'd find optimal trade value.

G. Sign a backup RB if Henry gets shipped off to wherever. Anthony Thomas of the Bears would be ideal, but I'm not sure how expensive he'll end up being.

 

That's pretty much all I'd do until June 1. By the early summer and mini-camp season, we'll have a better idea as to what our TE health status is, as well as how capable the Losman-Reed or Losman-Aiken connection may be. I like Edwards, Kelsay, and McGee as our starters on D, and I think LB and CB depth can be addressed strictly through the draft.

 

And as for kicker, I'm going to get even more sh-- for this I know, but I'd stick with Lindell. The reason being that I'm not sure there are any better F.A. kickers out there who could do better in their first year dealing with the RWS winds. Of course, 1-2 UDFA kicker prospects in pre-season is expected, and maybe we'll strike gold and one of them can unseat Lindell.

 

By the way, I do agree with the rest of you that Holcomb to replace Drew/Shane and Gandy to replace Price were both excellent pickups. However, more needs to be done...

[wwovince]

1. Hiring Gregg Williams.

I agree

2. 2002 draft, day 1.

3. Not outright releasing Drew Bledsoe after the 2003 season.

I agree

4. Not making the playoffs in 2003 or 2004.

Not his fault we had talent on the field bad coaching in 03

5. Not respecting the kicker position in football.

totally agree

6. Overpaying for guys at certain positions - Troy Vincent at FS(we shall see this year), Teague at C(Paid as T moved by coaching to C), MW at RT(coming into his own now in my opinion), Villarial at RG(YOUR NUTS! One of our more solid OLs), Prioleau and Wire at backup SS(Agree), etc...

7. Building a team with the stars focused at the LB and offensive "skill" positions rather than upfront on the OL and DL.(I agree to an extent)

8. Already being at the salary cap limit for 2005, only 2 years following the period where we were unofficially out of "salary cap jail."

(Hes doing awesome with the cap. would you rather be in cap hell again? your crazy

[Dawgg]

Umm who hired that coach?

 

4. Not making the playoffs in 2003 or 2004.

Not his fault we had talent on the field bad coaching in 03

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