row_33 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 All these years and the 10,000 involved havent said a thing.... GLad we have a person in here who sorted it all out with proof. Who could have guessed wed have this on the short side of a football board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) All these years and the 10,000 involved havent said a thing.... GLad we have a person in here who sorted it all out with proof. Who could have guessed wed have this on the short side of a football board? Why is it 10,000 people involved? The circle is much smaller. The evidence is there for all to see. Just got to look at it in context. What happened in 1962 was orchestrated, at least in part, by elements within the CIA. This isn't speculation, this is actual documented reality. Oswald was CIA. It's also actual documented reality that millions of dollars and countless man hours have been expended by various institutions within the federal government to mislead the public about the event. There is a money trail that shows CIA paid off witnesses in Garrison's case to perjure themselves. There's a paper trail within the FBI showing how obsessed Hoover was with "making the public believe" Oswald acted alone and was indeed the assassin. There have been countless disinformation campaigns and agents deployed by governmental sources, more than enough to obscure any real conversation on this topic. Hell, the term "conspiracy theorist" was coined by CIA in 1963 precisely to disparage anyone who questioned the official story on Kennedy's death. That's not my work or research alone that reaches that conclusion. That's the culmination of countless researchers logging countless hours and providing actual evidence and context to back it up. What is speculated, by me (and others) is the motive - particularly on the part of CIA. I'm admittedly speculating when expounding on my thesis, but doing so with passion. Don't mistake that for anything more than it is. And to recap, what I'm highlighting is simply the motive and opportunity of the crime: Allen Dulles was fired by Kennedy two months before the assassination specifically because Kennedy was outraged with how far off the chain CIA's paramilitary operations had become. The CIA (in tandem with the MiC) was waging war without Presidential knowledge or approval. This was warned by DDE on his way out the door and had metastasized by the time of the Bay of Pigs. Kennedy wanted to shut down the CIA's paramilitary capabilities and make it the Pentagon's purview exclusively (National Security memos make this clear) - in 1962 that meant shutting down Gehlen's Organization who specialized in assassinations and executing coups all over the globe. If CIA was involved in the assassination, which we now know they were just by Oswald's presence, the pool of assassins it would deploy would have more than likely come from Gehlen's Organization... whom Dulles not only created and funded but often unleashed upon his enemies with impunity while he served in Langley. With Kennedy dead, Gehlen's Organization immediately gets a funding increase, Dulles is restored to a position of honor, and the MiC gets a shiny new war in the jungle. That's motive and opportunity. Strong enough, in terms of legit documentation and testimony, that you could argue that case in a court of law and be rather successful... you know, if the CIA wasn't going to bribe witnesses while the DOJ put pressure on the judge... Edited October 29, 2017 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Keep reading. This is one document in a sea of them. Have to keep it all in context, and I'm posting on the fly as I'm reading myself: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32144493.pdf(notice the last paragraph - which is cut off - confirms at least two shooters) https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32113033.pdf(Oswald was CIA and it was known) Now go back through Allen Dulles's history and his role in paperclip and the bay of pigs. Ask yourself how the one guy with actual motive to kill a sitting president gets appointed to the commission to investigate the assassination. I'm sorry, based on these documents, your conclusions seem even more pathetic. The first one (32144493) is a report about a talk given by Oren Fenton Potito. The 2 shooter material is all said by Potito, who, based on some research, is a bit of a far-right conspiracy nut. It confirms nothing, just reports what Potito discussed. The second document (32113033) is a deposition of David Belin, who appears to deny CIA involvement in various matters. Helms is questioning whether Oswald is affiliated to the CIA in any way and I don't see an answer by Belin. It is neither a confirmation or denial. What am I missing? I know you are reading all this on the fly, but perhaps if you're going to select certain documents to state your case, you could actually make sure they definitively back up what you're trying to state as fact because, to me, they don't at all. You're losing legitimacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 I'm sorry, based on these documents, your conclusions seem even more pathetic. My conclusions are not based on just these documents. Which is why I said to keep reading. These documents are reinforcing long suspected theories. What am I missing? I know you are reading all this on the fly, but perhaps if you're going to select certain documents to state your case, you could actually make sure they definitively back up what you're trying to state as fact because, to me, they don't at all. You're losing legitimacy. You're missing a lot. Look into what I've said, do your own digging, and make the connections or dismiss them yourself. Don't take anyone but yourself as a source of authority. My legitimacy is irrelevant to the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 My conclusions are not based on just these documents. Which is why I said to keep reading. These documents are reinforcing long suspected theories. You're missing a lot. Look into what I've said, do your own digging, and make the connections or dismiss them yourself. Don't take anyone but yourself as a source of authority. My legitimacy is irrelevant to the facts. That's my problem. They really are not. Obviously the same theories came up back then and they were addressed or simply monitored. There's really no credible confirmations there, can't say I want to waste time digging further at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) That's my problem. They really are not. Obviously the same theories came up back then and they were addressed or simply monitored. There's really no credible confirmations there, can't say I want to waste time digging further at this point. There were over 2,300 files released - which represents only 2% of the total withheld files btw. It seem premature to say there aren't any confirmations based on reading three documents I linked out of 2,300 (while also ignoring the voluminous documented paper trail that's been compiled in the 50 years since). There's a lot in these files despite being just a sliver of the number we were promised. But no one can/should force you to look into anything you're uncomfortable with. Let me ask you this merely for the sake of conversation: In your opinion, what are the possible national security reasons for suppressing information on a 50+ year old assassination? Remember, this information was gathered and compiled on our dime, we have the right to see these files. Yet both CIA and the FBI begged Trump - on the grounds of endangering national security and geopolitics in general - to withhold 98% of the files. If Oswald acted alone, unfunded or uncoordinated with any other organization/group/agency/nation state, what in your mind could be the possible reasons to withhold information that revolves around people who are mostly deceased and governments that no longer exist? Edited October 30, 2017 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Hitler was alive in Columbia? #JFKFiles I knew I wasn't wasting my time watching Hunting Hitler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Hitler was alive in Columbia? #JFKFiles I knew I wasn't wasting my time watching Hunting Hitler :sick: :sick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Yes, I did not mean to imply Hitler survived/had Kennedy offed. No aliens needed in this theory. But that scenario is the basis of a lot of fun "research" over the years. I was referring to the voluminous paper trail that leads back all the way to the pact the United States made with the devil in 1944-45. Operation Paperclip did more than recruit Nazi scientists into our burgeoning space programs, it also focused heavily on the anti-Soviet intelligence officers and assets within the Nazi regime. The number one get was General Gehlen and his network of spies and handlers which organized and ran the extermination campaigns along the eastern front during the war. Gehlen was recruited by the OSS by selling the Americans on the idea that he and his men were necessary tools to be used against the Soviet/Communist threat that everyone knew was going to grip Europe once the war was over. Gehlen's organization was populated with not just ardent Nazis, but some of the war's most wanted war criminals. These men were given clemency and protection by the US Government and would come to comprised the bulk of the CIA's intelligence arm in Western and Eastern Europe from 1945 well into the late 1970s. The paramilitary wing of the CIA in Europe was Gehlen's Organization. They not only were the only eyes on the ground for Langley, they were the ones charged with preventing the Communist party from winning elections in a rebuilding Europe. Operation GLADIO was one of the more infamous Gehlen led operations wherein the CIA worked with right wing Italian terrorist groups in an attempt to control the outcomes of local elections. Gehlen's group also provided over 90% of the intelligence about the Soviet military threat in Eastern Europe during the height of the cold war. It's now been proven, through official government records and correspondence, that Gehlen's organization routinely and dramatically over-estimated the threat of the Soviets to the point of absurdity. This over-reporting of the threat not only drove an unassailable wedge between the Soviets and the west almost immediately after the war ended, it also drove up Gehlen's budget and importance in the USIC. Gehlen's organization ran operations all over Europe, the middle east, and northern Africa - using the same tactics and techniques they did while wearing Nazi uniforms. Funny thing though, about the deal Gehlen cut with the OSS during his paperclip recruitment, he outright told his handler that he would never serve America's interest over that of Germany's if a conflict arose. In fact, Gehlen left CIA in 1979 to form and run the German BND. Of course driving a wedge between the two super powers, playing them off one another, had benefits for Germany as well, namely it allowed Germany (with Gehlen's help - and by extension the CIA's) to develop a turn-key nuclear program in South Africa in direct violation of the treaty. The list goes on... Back to Kennedy... In the year before his assassination, Kennedy was threatening to destroy the CIA's paramilitary wing and scatter it to the wind according to some. This was after the Bay of Pigs where he saw first hand how the USIC, specifically the CIA's paramilitary wing, was running loose off its chain. He fired Allen Dulles for this betrayal and set out to shutter the agencies ability to wage unsanctioned war. This, without question, was a direct and imminent threat to Gehlen's Organization. Gehlen's Organization was the CIA's paramilitary wing by 1962. Gehlen and his men were not just CIA assets, most were wanted war criminals by both Mossad and the Soviets. Losing the official cover the CIA would expose them to any number of unpleasantries. That's a mighty strong motive... Oddly one that is rarely, if ever, discussed when people throw around "Kennedy theories". You always hear about Cubans, the mob, the CIA, but never about the direct Nazi connection to the murder... including the fact that a German Mauser was originally found at the book depository by the Dallas PD (link at the bottom). It's almost like the Cubans, the Mob, the CIA are the distractions thrown out to blur the lines. Oh... and a second funny thing about that deal Gehlen cut back in 1944-1945 with the OSS, the guy who recruited him and brought him in? Allen Dulles. The same guy who would rise to be the head of CIA, the same guy JFK fired just a few months before his assassination, the same guy who - for inexplicable reasons - was also placed on the Warren Commission. I'm sure it's all a big coincidence though. That's my job! The UFO connection is real if you believe Steven Greer. He claims Kennedy told Monroe about the government working on advanced tech from off planet (according to her "diary"). This is what got them both killed ultimately. Howard Hunt too once said that the real reason Kennedy was killed was because he wanted to tell the world about both the US and Soviets working with ETs... but it's Hunt so... That dude deserves his own thread here. I have actually watched a lot of interviews/videos with this guy on Youtube, because I find him fascinating and highly entertaining. He is 100% bat **** crazy, but still a smart person and his stories are at least as interesting as the more traditional sort of fiction people read in novels. The fact that he intermingles his fiction with some truth and reality, and sells the whole thing as "fact" makes it work even more as a fictional entertainment product in my opinion. He suffers from some weird sort of disorder. Dude runs a small industry funded by conspiracy nuts and the UFO/Alien visitation crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 That dude deserves his own thread here. I have actually watched a lot of interviews/videos with this guy on Youtube, because I find him fascinating and highly entertaining. He is 100% bat **** crazy, but still a smart person and his stories are at least as interesting as the more traditional sort of fiction people read in novels. The fact that he intermingles his fiction with some truth and reality, and sells the whole thing as "fact" makes it work even more as a fictional entertainment product in my opinion. He suffers from some weird sort of disorder. Dude runs a small industry funded by conspiracy nuts and the UFO/Alien visitation crowd. The UFO thread on Off The Wall has a few different bits about Greer. I've spent a bit of time with the man, was supposed to write something for him a couple years ago but it wasn't for me. I wouldn't describe him as crazy, he legitimately believes the stuff he says and (most of) his research is top notch - though he has had two embarrassing misses. He was a quite successful surgeon, and is a savvy businessman in how he's marketed his brand in the past decade, but I've always gotten the feeling he's withholding a great deal about where the money is actually coming from. You say he gets funded by the UFO crowd, and that's somewhat true, but none of those guys make any real money doing conferences or even writing books - there's just no money there. Yet Greer is almost comically well funded. Where we personally part ways is his belief that there are only positive ETs out there. I'm not even sure he believes that, but it's a narrative he's been selling for the past four years and to me is probably tied where he's getting his funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 54 years ago today. Had I been around I would have stopped it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: 54 years ago today. Had I been around I would have stopped it. And yet every day you laud the organization that killed him. Funny how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: And yet every day you laud the organization that killed him. Funny how that works. The Mafia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The Mafia? On 11/17/2017 at 11:37 AM, Tiberius said: Well, Let's Go Langley!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: It is a nice base, better than any old Russian crap base. Why did the CIA want Johnson? Same reason Russia wants Trump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Your ignorance continues to astound. Do better. What's the single biggest piece of evidence CIA did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 37 minutes ago, Tiberius said: 54 years ago today. Had I been around I would have stopped it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tiberius said: What's the single biggest piece of evidence CIA did it? Within the new releases are dozens of documents (which are incomplete and remain redacted) which discuss Oswald's CIA background, including the head of CIA asking whether or not Oswald was one of Langley's. For someone who wishes he were there to have saved Kennedy, you don't seem to care enough to do your own research. Then there's the question of motive: What was Kennedy trying to do before he died? Who did he fire two months before he was murdered? What did that person do during the war and immediately after? What project was he directly involved in? It's all there for you to see. Buried under an avalanche of files and documents. They just know you're too lazy to connect the dots for yourself because you outsourced your own discernment and free-thinking to talking heads and pundits long ago. Edited November 23, 2017 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Just now, /dev/null said: Hitler survived and killed JFK! The Russians found a half dead Hitler and they fixed him up, got to talking with him and decided they liked him. And he liked them. And they all like Oswald and Trump. Yes Trump! So Hitler went to the Philippines and lived with a Japanese soldier in a cave--yes, liked each other and Oswald and Trump, who sent their love from Russia. But they did not like Kennedy, too darn liberal! So they all took jobs working on a Hong Kong freighter that docked in San Francisco on November 11th--a touchy day for Hitler!--and preceded to plan the assassination. Who is the Japanese soldier you ask? Well read the files!! He might be Sarah Huckabee Sanders...ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 45 minutes ago, Tiberius said: 54 years ago today. Had I been around I would have stopped it. Quoting so others can read it, as this is some of your finest work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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