Reks Ryan Posted October 21, 2017 Posted October 21, 2017 Will Tyrod pass for over 228 yards and transplant start over 9 threads about him in October? Go in record with your bets now Can I bet on over 9 threads, but Tyrod passes for less than 200 yards?
grb Posted October 21, 2017 Posted October 21, 2017 Alas poor Tyrod I knew him well. Holding up Taylor's skull (I suspect) would give you an unseemly satisfaction.......
LA Grant Posted October 21, 2017 Posted October 21, 2017 Tyrod Taylor + Sammy Watkins and this team is undefeated this season. They could've still acquired Gaines and Matthews another way, they were both on the block. I'm optimistic about Tyrod's chances the next two weeks against the Bucs and Raiders. We'll see what happens. Besides Shady, his top targets will be Zay Jones (approaching a record number of drops already), Nick O'Leary, Logan Thomas, and Andre Holmes. If we're lucky, an injured Jordan Matthews will be out there, too. But damn, what could've been, if they'd kept Sammy and used a scheme that let Tyrod be Tyrod, basically Mike Vick Jr., and use more rollouts, bootlegs, options -- get Tyrod out of the pocket more with a threat to run, with Sammy deep and Shady with a short/mid route... that would be a tough attack to defend.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 21, 2017 Posted October 21, 2017 Holding up Taylor's skull (I suspect) would give you an unseemly satisfaction....... That would be a bit overboard. I was just rolling with the Shakespear theme.
Rochesterfan Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Let's be honest, the Bills have faced a muderer's row of defenses to start the season. Cincy, Denver, Carolina and Atlanta are all great to Elite defenses. All are in the top 10 and Cincy, Denver, and Carolina are in the top 4. They are also very good passing defenses sitting at #2, #6, #7 and #12. And before anyone just says "well they look great because Taylor's numbers skewed the raw data so they look better than they are..." Let me give you a list of the common QBs those 4 teams have played that most would say are better or head & shoulders better than Taylor:Joe Flacco Deshaun Watson Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Phillip Rivers Dak Prescott Derek Carr Tom Brady Matthew Stafford There were 11 of those common games. I looked it up and did the math and here's what those QBs averaged per game against those 4 defenses:22.6/35.3 (64%), 227 yards, 6.4 YPA, 1.8 passing TDs, 0.5 INTs, 93.3 Passer Rating, 2.7 sacks, 18.5 yards lost 4 wins 7 losses And I think we can all agree that Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are Elite QBs separate from the pack of pretty much every other QB in the NFL, right? Well, if you eliminate the games those guys played, those other 6 guys who most would consider better than Taylor looked like this on a per game basis:19.1/31.7 (60.3%), 187.4 yards, 5.9 YPA, 1.4 passing TDs, 0.3 INTs, 87.7 Passer Rating, 2.4 sacks, 16.3 yards lost, 2 wins 5 losses Now here's Taylor's stat line against those same teams:17.3/27 (64.1%), 172 yards, 6.4 YPA, 1 passing TD. 0.25 INTs, 90.5 Passer Rating, 4 sacks, 19.7 yards lost 2 wins 2 losses As hypercritical as people are with Taylor's play to start the season, is it really all that bad considering the defenses we've played? I wouldn't call it great, but he's looked really good against some great defenses, at times. Other great QBs have looked really bad against the same defenses, at times. Moving forward, the best defense we play are the 'Phins at #11, then the Chargers at #18. After that it's defenses that are currently 24th or worse. Plus, 6 home games vs 5 away games.Taylor passing at home: 211 YPG, 65% completions, 8.0 YPA, 25 TDs, 9 INTs, team is 11-6Taylor passing away: 199.5 YPG, 60.4% completions, 6.7 YPA, 18 TDs, 5 INTs, team is 7-10 I don't think anyone can reasonably expect to start passing for 300+ or probably even 250+ yards per game, but I think we should expect to see a significantly better Taylor than we saw in the first 5 weeks. And if we do and this defense keeps playing the way it has been, this is a playoff team Lot's of interesting stuff, but being honest do you really think it matters at all to TT's game? I can honestly say - I do not believe the strength of the defense matters one little bit to TT's game. He has had some of his best games against top flight elite level defenses and some of his worst games against teams in the very bottom of the league in terms of pass defense. Week to week he plays a very similar games - completes enough passes to move the ball, but not enough to be a difference maker. He keeps us in games by managing turnovers, but does not do enough to pull out games routinely at the end. The difference between winning and losing is can our defense keep us in the lead throughout - if that happens TT can help maintain the lead and win, but if the team falls behind - it is an uphill struggle to win the game. I appreciate all of the effort, but I think it amounts to absolutely nothing. TT is about as steady as you can get - it just is not good enough to be a viable winning franchise. I expect the next couple of weeks will play out like the first couple of weeks did - a few good games, a few sub par games and about 50 more threads from both cults that push their agendas with no room to see that he is what he is and what he has been. The line has little impact, the WRs, the TEs, the oppents defense - none of that has much impact on the game. Edited October 22, 2017 by Rochesterfan
grb Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) That would be a bit overboard. I was just rolling with the Shakespear theme. Admittedly, I do go overboard at times. It's the whole Internet Thing. Lot's of interesting stuff, but being honest do you really think it matters at all to TT's game? I can honestly say - I do not believe the strength of the defense matters one little bit to TT's game. He has had some of his best games against top flight elite level defenses and some of his worst games against teams in the very bottom of the league in terms of pass defense. Week to week he plays a very similar games - completes enough passes to move the ball, but not enough to be a difference maker. He keeps us in games by managing turnovers, but does not do enough to pull out games routinely at the end. The difference between winning and losing is can our defense keep us in the lead throughout - if that happens TT can help maintain the lead and win, but if the team falls behind - it is an uphill struggle to win the game. I appreciate all of the effort, but I think it amounts to absolutely nothing. TT is about as steady as you can get - it just is not good enough to be a viable winning franchise. I expect the next couple of weeks will play out like the first couple of weeks did - a few good games, a few sub par games and about 50 more threads from both cults that push their agendas with no room to see that he is what he is and what he has been. The line has little impact, the WRs, the TEs, the oppents defense - none of that has much impact on the game. Apparently Taylor is unique in all of the NFL and it's history. It makes no difference what quality of defense he plays against. It makes no difference whether the offensive line he plays behind is excellent or terrible. Put him behind one of the the best pass blocking lines in the league (like Dallas) and what result? No difference at all. Of course, the same is true about his targets. He's playing with one of the worst set of receivers in the NFL, if not the worse. Does that hamper him? Not a bit....... It makes no difference. But back on Planet Earth, common sense still reigns. Yes, Taylor has good & bad days independent of a defense's ranking, but so do all quarterbacks. With only a sliver of a difference between Taylor and Dak Prescott in average Time to Throw, the former has been sacked 18 times, the latter 7 (on more attempts). Because the offensive line matters, as does the quality of receivers to throw to. In the past two years Taylor has had a legitimate number one and two receiver starting together only fifteen games. Taylor's play then : 63.6%. 8.25 ypa. 27 tds. 6 int. Whoda thunk it? Apparently it makes a difference after all...... Edited October 22, 2017 by grb
transplantbillsfan Posted October 22, 2017 Author Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Lot's of interesting stuff, but being honest do you really think it matters at all to TT's game? I can honestly say - I do not believe the strength of the defense matters one little bit to TT's game. He has had some of his best games against top flight elite level defenses and some of his worst games against teams in the very bottom of the league in terms of pass defense. Week to week he plays a very similar games - completes enough passes to move the ball, but not enough to be a difference maker. He keeps us in games by managing turnovers, but does not do enough to pull out games routinely at the end. The difference between winning and losing is can our defense keep us in the lead throughout - if that happens TT can help maintain the lead and win, but if the team falls behind - it is an uphill struggle to win the game. I appreciate all of the effort, but I think it amounts to absolutely nothing. TT is about as steady as you can get - it just is not good enough to be a viable winning franchise. I expect the next couple of weeks will play out like the first couple of weeks did - a few good games, a few sub par games and about 50 more threads from both cults that push their agendas with no room to see that he is what he is and what he has been. The line has little impact, the WRs, the TEs, the oppents defense - none of that has much impact on the game. Not a problem with the opinion here RF. But I think that what we've seen from Taylor particularly in the wins this year have been improvements noticeably on things people have been looking for him to improve upon. There are folks here who are obsessed with yards. Absolutely obsessed. There are also old folks who are going to dismiss any of the good or amplify any of the bad let Taylor does. I think Taylor is an average NFL quarterback. That's all. I don't think he is spectacular. But he also doesn't suck ass as some folks on here believe. You don't just throw away average NFL QBs without a clear upgrade in the immediate or near future. I guess the rest of the year finalizes what he is. But the 2nd half of the season should help his cause. And again, as obsessed with YARDS as some are, I'll say right here that I think his 213 yard performance was one of his 5 best as a Bill. Would you be happy if he were consistently the QB he was against Denver, a great NFL defense, despite "just" 213 passing yards and 2 TDs? I would. Edited October 22, 2017 by transplantbillsfan
GunnerBill Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 I think it's an indication we really need to pump the brakes on saying Taylor sucks, as some on this board have been proclaiming. Can we get an agreement that the breaks will stay pumped from you and your fellow TT disciples if he looks good against Tampa's terrible pass defense? Because I can dig out a whole host of quotes that are equally as nonsensical as the "Tyrod sucks" quotes from after each of our 3 wins.
transplantbillsfan Posted October 22, 2017 Author Posted October 22, 2017 Can we get an agreement that the breaks will stay pumped from you and your fellow TT disciples if he looks good against Tampa's terrible pass defense? Because I can dig out a whole host of quotes that are equally as nonsensical as the "Tyrod sucks" quotes from after each of our 3 wins. From me? Dig them out. Please. I'm eagerly waiting
GunnerBill Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 From me? Dig them out. Please. I'm eagerly waiting Not just from you. From the Cult more generally. And I am in the gym now but I will dig them out later. Try the "Where are all the haters now" thread after the Falcons game or the "Tyrod has clearly improved" thread after the Jets. They are both treasure troves of hot takes from the Cult.
Scott7975 Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 Not just from you. From the Cult more generally. And I am in the gym now but I will dig them out later. Try the "Where are all the haters now" thread after the Falcons game or the "Tyrod has clearly improved" thread after the Jets. They are both treasure troves of hot takes from the Cult. The cult of Bills fans? The cult of peoples with different opinions? I thought we were over this cult bs. Almost everyone here are Bills fans. People have different opinions on the players/coaches/front office/team/stadium location/dome or not/politics/etc. None of them belong to any cult other than being a fan of this team. Labeling people as a cult because they are fans of Tyrod is childish and ignorant.
GunnerBill Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 The cult of Bills fans? The cult of peoples with different opinions? I thought we were over this cult bs. Almost everyone here are Bills fans. People have different opinions on the players/coaches/front office/team/stadium location/dome or not/politics/etc. None of them belong to any cult other than being a fan of this team. Labeling people as a cult because they are fans of Tyrod is childish and ignorant. The Cult is real. It is those fans who not only need to be uber positive about Tyrod (which is fine I get that you always want to see your own QB in the best light) but to also denegrate any other young Quarterback for the purpose of pushing an agenda.
billsfan714 Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 Remember the key TT's success it the less of impact he has in the passing game....the better for the Bills. That's say's it all in my book.
Scott7975 Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) The Cult is real. It is those fans who not only need to be uber positive about Tyrod (which is fine I get that you always want to see your own QB in the best light) but to also denegrate any other young Quarterback for the purpose of pushing an agenda. 1 or 2 Tyrod fanatics does not a cult make. Maybe you should look up a history of cults in the world. There are just as many if not more anti-Tyrod fanatics. I guess those guys are ok and not a cult because its a shared opinion. Edited October 22, 2017 by Scott7975
Rochesterfan Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 Admittedly, I do go overboard at times. It's the whole Internet Thing. Apparently Taylor is unique in all of the NFL and it's history. It makes no difference what quality of defense he plays against. It makes no difference whether the offensive line he plays behind is excellent or terrible. Put him behind one of the the best pass blocking lines in the league (like Dallas) and what result? No difference at all. Of course, the same is true about his targets. He's playing with one of the worst set of receivers in the NFL, if not the worse. Does that hamper him? Not a bit....... It makes no difference. But back on Planet Earth, common sense still reigns. Yes, Taylor has good & bad days independent of a defense's ranking, but so do all quarterbacks. With only a sliver of a difference between Taylor and Dak Prescott in average Time to Throw, the former has been sacked 18 times, the latter 7 (on more attempts). Because the offensive line matters, as does the quality of receivers to throw to. In the past two years Taylor has had a legitimate number one and two receiver starting together only fifteen games. Taylor's play then : 63.6%. 8.25 ypa. 27 tds. 6 int. Whoda thunk it? Apparently it makes a difference after all...... Great - yet his best games are against Seattle and Denver teams that top Elite level defenses and are games he he had no Sammy Watkins at all. Games against Oakland (one of the worst pass defenses and having Sammy Watkins) was some of his worst play. We had well over 200 yards rushing and got very little from the passing game. The defense let us down in the game, but we also needed more out of the QB position. i think TT does better against some Man defense where he can tell his guy is open and several top defenses run mostly man. He really struggles against good zone and combo defenses where you need to throw into specific windows to be good. Denver and Seattle- he could see if his guys were open and delivered the ball. Carolina this year ran combo covers and typically plays a lot of zone and they switched it up and TT and the offense never adjusted. Would he be better with all kinds of weapons against a bottom tier defense? Probably, but history has shown us that his best games are against better defenses and his top couple of games are without Sammy.
Rochesterfan Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 Not a problem with the opinion here RF. But I think that what we've seen from Taylor particularly in the wins this year have been improvements noticeably on things people have been looking for him to improve upon. There are folks here who are obsessed with yards. Absolutely obsessed. There are also old folks who are going to dismiss any of the good or amplify any of the bad let Taylor does. I think Taylor is an average NFL quarterback. That's all. I don't think he is spectacular. But he also doesn't suck ass as some folks on here believe. You don't just throw away average NFL QBs without a clear upgrade in the immediate or near future. I guess the rest of the year finalizes what he is. But the 2nd half of the season should help his cause. And again, as obsessed with YARDS as some are, I'll say right here that I think his 213 yard performance was one of his 5 best as a Bill. Would you be happy if he were consistently the QB he was against Denver, a great NFL defense, despite "just" 213 passing yards and 2 TDs? I would. There are things that he has done this year - the throw to Tate for a TD is a good example - where did that throw come from and why does he make it there, but misses other opportunities. Yes - I know all QBs miss opportunities, but if you are going to make very limited throws - you need to reduce the missed opportunities- just like the turnovers. Just as I did not think the end of last year defined him - I do not think anything you see the rest of this year will define him - his definition is already out there. He is defined. He is exactly what you said an average QB. He does not suck, but he also does not deserve a starting job - he deserves to compete for a starting job and a smart team would be looking for ways to move on - which is what the Bills are doing. I wanted to see what EJ could do last year (in a meaningful game not that joke of a game against NY) because what we need to know is TT holding back the offense or is he making the offense and the team around him sucks. I feel the same way this year - I would love to see what Peterman could do with a full week of prep work in a meaningful game to know if what we are seeing is design flaws or QB flaws. We saw it under Marrone when he benched EJ for Orton- the entire offense changed. The team became a passing offense and although Orton was Orton and had a ton of warts - you suddenly saw what the offense could do and that the OC was hampered by QB play under EJ. Currently as we are on TT's 3rd OC - I would love to know if the limitations that they all seem to impose on TT are QB flaw driven or have we had 3 really bad OC's? EJ was never the answer to show us anything, but you did see 2 years ago when TT was out - a lot of throws by EJ into areas that TT would not throw consistently- you also saw why EJ was a back-up with the turnovers. I want to see if a guy willing to throw on time makes the offense move better or does it lead to more mistakes and we need that steady play at the position.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) The Cult is real. It is those fans who not only need to be uber positive about Tyrod (which is fine I get that you always want to see your own QB in the best light) but to also denegrate any other young Quarterback for the purpose of pushing an agenda. you don't say, a cult. that's !@#$ing stupid. 1 or 2 Tyrod fanatics does not a cult make. Maybe you should look up a history of cults in the world. There are just as many if not more anti-Tyrod fanatics. I guess those guys are ok and not a cult because its a shared opinion. this Edited October 22, 2017 by DaBillsFanSince1973
Game Manager Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 Grb, Transplant, scott7978, alphadawg, jm2009, John from Hemet, happy days. There's at least 7 in the cult. I'm probably forgetting some.
Thurman#1 Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 It started 2.5 years ago. To give up on him now would be far from early. This is it, precisely. Taylor looked terrific for his first seven games. Then teams figured him out. Since then he's been the same guy who was forced to take a $10 million pay cut to stay with the team.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 22, 2017 Posted October 22, 2017 Grb, Transplant, scott7978, alphadawg, jm2009, John from Hemet, happy days. There's at least 7 in the cult. I'm probably forgetting some. what is a so called fan like you called then? just curious, should be interesting what you come up with.
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