Controversial Calls from Week 6: NYJ TD and Rodgers Hit

[mannc]

 

Right. You read his mind and determined that Barr attempted to injure Rodgers. The referee didn't and that's the right call.

As for the play-through aspect, the distinction is that it must be an intentional act to unnecessarily drive the quarterback to the ground or land on him. Therefore, the referee will favor the defender if the contact is what is normally part of a conventional tackle by two players at full speed and absent any deliberate act to stuff the quarterback.

In addition, Rodgers is protected by the standard unnecessary roughness calls afforded to any runner. He is also considered in a defenseless posture upon releasing the pass, but that protection is only for forcible blows to the head or neck area, which do not apply here.

Let's be clear: You did not post the rule. You posted some guy's summary of the rule. Post the actual rule and then tell me why what Barr did was not "stuffing the passer" and hence illegal under subpart (2) of the rule.

[Livinginthepast]

Jets "fumble"= Typical NFL. Create a stupid rule which defies logic and then try desperately to back up your inept officials when they blow yet another call. Its just like the catch rule or the tuck rule. Just plain stupid. In this case though the officials had the call right initially.At the very least I would have expected the officials original call of a TD to stand unless the evidence of a fumble was irrefutable. Looking at the replay again it just reinforces the fact that the Jets player bobbles the ball but regains possession BEFORE hitting the pylon. Which should be an INSTANT TD. An absolutely bogus call that just reinforces the conspiracy theory that the Pats have the officials bought and paid for.

 

As for the Roger's hit. It was legal under the NFL rules. But once again the NFL drops the ball. If they seriously want to protect QBS then don't allow any hits after the ball is out. If momentum carries you into the QB and the ball is not there then = 15 yd penalty for late hit. No exceptions. The one step hit after the ball is out may have been an acceptable idea in the 70s and 80s when the average player was probably 50 to 100lbs lighter but not now when you have a 300lb behemoth bearing down on the QB who has incredible speed. No QB stands a chance when one of these guys pile drives him into the turf.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Jets "fumble"= Typical NFL. Create a stupid rule which defies logic and then try desperately to back up your inept officials when they blow yet another call. Its just like the catch rule or the tuck rule. Just plain stupid. In this case though the officials had the call right initially.At the very least I would have expected the officials original call of a TD to stand unless the evidence of a fumble was irrefutable. Looking at the replay again it just reinforces the fact that the Jets player bobbles the ball but regains possession BEFORE hitting the pylon. Which should be an INSTANT TD. An absolutely bogus call that just reinforces the conspiracy theory that the Pats have the officials bought and paid for.

 

As for the Roger's hit. It was legal under the NFL rules. But once again the NFL drops the ball. If they seriously want to protect QBS then don't allow any hits after the ball is out. If momentum carries you into the QB and the ball is not there then = 15 yd penalty for late hit. No exceptions. The one step hit after the ball is out may have been an acceptable idea in the 70s and 80s when the average player was probably 50 to 100lbs lighter but not now when you have a 300lb behemoth bearing down on the QB who has incredible speed. No QB stands a chance when one of these guys pile drives him into the turf.

I suspect the rule will change based on the Roger hit.

 

It was legal in every sense to my understanding. I believe it gets a flag if he was in the pocket, based on my interpretation of the rule as well.

 

Now maybe he could have let up more or dove over him, but those guys work their tails off to get hits on the QB. If the rules allow me to, I'm getting a hit on the QB... you're trying to win a football game

[Heavy Kevi]

Go watch the replay and show me where Barr lets up. He doesn't.

I did, and he does.

 

You say he "drove his shoulder... with all his body force". That is the statement of untruth here, perhaps you should rewatch. The "force" was nothing that resembles his full "body force".

 

Come on now, don't just stick to your guns for the sake of sticking to them. When confronted with real info, the best course of action is to concede.

[26CornerBlitz]

Jets "fumble"= Typical NFL. Create a stupid rule which defies logic and then try desperately to back up your inept officials when they blow yet another call. Its just like the catch rule or the tuck rule. Just plain stupid. In this case though the officials had the call right initially.At the very least I would have expected the officials original call of a TD to stand unless the evidence of a fumble was irrefutable. Looking at the replay again it just reinforces the fact that the Jets player bobbles the ball but regains possession BEFORE hitting the pylon. Which should be an INSTANT TD. An absolutely bogus call that just reinforces the conspiracy theory that the Pats have the officials bought and paid for.

 

As for the Roger's hit. It was legal under the NFL rules. But once again the NFL drops the ball. If they seriously want to protect QBS then don't allow any hits after the ball is out. If momentum carries you into the QB and the ball is not there then = 15 yd penalty for late hit. No exceptions. The one step hit after the ball is out may have been an acceptable idea in the 70s and 80s when the average player was probably 50 to 100lbs lighter but not now when you have a 300lb behemoth bearing down on the QB who has incredible speed. No QB stands a chance when one of these guys pile drives him into the turf.

 

If a defender can't hit a QB within one step, then it's time to make it touch football.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

The Jets call, I believe there was a still on ESPN that showed him clearly have the ball separated from him, and therefore I think he has to reestablish possession. I think he controls the ball again when crossing the pylon but lands out of bounds without getting his two feet back in bounds, so therefore he recovered it out of bounds. Now I am not 100% on the last part but I think that is what they are saying

 

Edit: Here is a link to the picture I was talking about, its the still image before the video plays

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21036046/new-york-jets-upset-baffled-apparent-touchdown-turned-fumble-replay-review

 

 

Yes - but you'll never make that call on the field because in actual game speed it doesn't look like he "lost control". It'll only ever get called if the ruling on the field is a TD - and then its a huge reversal.

[4_kidd_4]

Rodgers hit is just football. Clean all day.

 

Everything looks worse slowed down and under a microscope.

[hemma]

'Fumble' overrule left a real sour taste.

 

Variations on Rodgers hit happen every week. Football hurts, some more than others.

[cba fan]

The Jets call, I believe there was a still on ESPN that showed him clearly have the ball separated from him, and therefore I think he has to reestablish possession. I think he controls the ball again when crossing the pylon but lands out of bounds without getting his two feet back in bounds, so therefore he recovered it out of bounds. Now I am not 100% on the last part but I think that is what they are saying

 

Edit: Here is a link to the picture I was talking about, its the still image before the video plays

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21036046/new-york-jets-upset-baffled-apparent-touchdown-turned-fumble-replay-review

 

Can these refs see anything? This is not a clear fumble out of bounds. He clearly regained control and his left knee was down just before he hit he pylon and the ground(endzone) inside the pylon. This was a TD.

 

The refs said he lost control again when he hit the ground therefore it was a fumble out of end zone. This is BS.

I believe this was an improper judgement call on if he controlled the ball when he hit the ground to complete the play. (which by the way I have never heard of before except in cases of incomplete or complete passes)You can see him change the ball from his left hand to his right hand when he hits the ground. In my judgement that is not a fumble as the ball never came out and this is not a juggle. He clearly still controlled the ball throughout the process. Players change hands all the time and it is never considered out of his control or a fumble.

 

NFL screwed this up big time. At the very least it is inconclusive so original TD call stands. All day except when you play the Cheats.

 

Fact check for any fan and NFL........if this was ruled a TD there would be no one talking about any controversy at all. NO ONE.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Hated both calls, typical NFL. Now they are massaging what the intent of the rules are and pretending to be right. Jets got hosed and of course NE is the beneficiary. How they could reverse that call is absurd. The other is more debatable. I've seen that play called before and I think it reeks of inconsistency. And, I firmly believe the NFL doesn't want the QB to be hit that way and injured. The rule will be dealt with in the offseason, the refs will remain inconsistent because the rulebook is not great and the fans don't get to watch Aaron Rodgers all year.

Edited October 17, 2017 by horned dogs

[mannc]

 

If a defender can't hit a QB within one step, then it's time to make it touch football.

Yeah, it's obviously a game for sissies.

 

Here's an excerpt from the actual NFL roughing the passer rule (as opposed to what you posted earlier):

 

"Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against a player who is in a passing posture (i.e. before, during, or after a pass) which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles:

 

A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (a) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight.

 

...

 

When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (a) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (e) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (b, c, d, and f), as well as the regular unnecessary roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers.

 

Note 1: When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer."

 

(Emphasis added.)

 

What the above illustrates is: (1) it is a judgment call on the part of the official, who may penalize any contact that isn't "warranted under the circumstances", (2) after the QB throws the ball, the defender does not get to drive him into the ground and land on him (like Barr did to Rodgers), and (3) when in doubt, the referee "should always call roughing the passer". Based on these principals, you're bald assertion that Barr's hit on Rodgers was definitely a legal hit under the existing NFL rules is completely unfounded. In fact, under these principals, especially the last one, it definitely should have been called roughing the passer. Whether Barr gets fined/suspended is another matter, but I believe he should be. What he did appears to have been a calculated attempt to injure another player, whose injury (not coincidentally) significantly increases the Vikings chances of making the playoffs.

Edited October 17, 2017 by mannc

[26CornerBlitz]

Yeah, it's obviously a game for sissies.

 

Here's an excerpt from the actual NFL roughing the passer rule (as opposed to what you posted earlier):

 

"Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against a player who is in a passing posture (i.e. before, during, or after a pass) which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles:

 

A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (a) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight.

 

...

 

When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (a) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (e) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (b, c, d, and f), as well as the regular unnecessary roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers.

 

Note 1: When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer."

 

(Emphasis added.)

 

What the above illustrates is: (1) it is a judgment call on the part of the official, who may penalize any contact that isn't "warranted under the circumstances", (2) after the QB throws the ball, the defender does not get to drive him into the ground and land on him (like Barr did to Rodgers), and (3) when in doubt, the referee "should always call roughing the passer". Based on these principals, you're bald assertion that Barr's hit on Rodgers was definitely a legal hit under the existing NFL rules is completely unfounded. In fact, under these principals, especially the last one, it definitely should have been called roughing the passer. Whether Barr gets fined/suspended is another matter, but I believe he should be. What he did appears to have been a calculated attempt to injure another player, whose injury (not coincidentally) significantly increases the Vikings chances of making the playoffs.

 

Unfounded? The referee agreed with me because no flag was thrown nor should there have been. Barr did not drive him into the ground as you claim or attempt to injure him. It's pure conjecture from you and there will be neither a fine nor a suspension. Still wrong!

[GoBills808]

 

There was no flag on the play and there shouldn't have been per NFL rules. Those are the facts. Despite your vociferous objection, you remain incorrect.

***UNNECESSARY ACTS AGAINST PASSER (2) A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (1) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up or cradle the passer with the defensive player’s arms. ***

 

...is this the rule you're referring to? Because by this language it's clearly a roughing the passer foul.

[26CornerBlitz]

***UNNECESSARY ACTS AGAINST PASSER (2) A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (1) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up or cradle the passer with the defensive player’s arms. ***

 

...is this the rule you're referring to? Because by this language it's clearly a roughing the passer foul.

 

One step rule does not apply outside of the pocket.

[mannc]

 

One step rule does not apply outside of the pocket.

It has nothing to do with the one-step rule.

[26CornerBlitz]

It has nothing to do with the one-step rule.

 

It has to do with your false assertion that he drove him into the ground in addition to the one step rule not being applicable outside of the pocket..

Edited October 17, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[mannc]

 

It has to do with your false assertion that he drove him into the ground in addition to the one step rule not being applicable outside of the pocket..

Read the rule: although the one-step rule does not apply outside the pocket, the QB retains all other protections afforded a passer, including the "stuffing the passer" rule, which I quoted above and which GoBills808 referred to.

 

If Barr didn't drive Rodgers into the ground or "land on him with all or most of his body weight" then how did Rodgers break his collar bone?

[GoBills808]

 

One step rule does not apply outside of the pocket.

OK, for those interested, if already posted sorry:

 

-This is the entire (I believe) section on roughing the passer. It contains 8 subsections, and #8 deals with QBs outside the pocket:

 

ROUGHING THE PASSER Article 13 Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against passers during or just after a pass which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles:

 

PASS LEAVING PASSER’S HAND; ONE-STEP RULE (1) Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant.

 

UNNECESSARY ACTS AGAINST PASSER (2) A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (1) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up or cradle the passer with the defensive player’s arms.

 

HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK (3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 75 prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

 

CLUBBING PASSER’S ARM (4) A defensive player is prohibited from clubbing the arm of a passer during a pass or just after a pass has been thrown; however, a defensive player may grasp, pull, or otherwise make normal contact with a passer’s arm in attempting to tackle him;

 

HITTING PASSER’S KNEE (5) A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him; Note 1: A defender cannot initiate a roll or lunge and forcibly hit the passer in the knee area or below, even if he is being contacted by another player. Note 2: It is not a foul if the defender swipes, wraps, or grabs a passer in the knee area or below in an attempt to tackle him.

 

GRASP AND CONTROL (6) The Referee must blow the play dead as soon as the passer is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler behind the line, and the passer’s safety is in jeopardy;

 

PASSER OUT OF THE PLAY (7) A passer who is standing still or fading backwards after the ball has left his hand is obviously out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the defense through the end of the play or until the passer becomes a blocker, or until he becomes a runner upon taking a lateral from a teammate or picking up a loose ball, or, in the event of a change of possession on the play, until the passer assumes a distinctly defensive position. However, at any time after the change of possession, it is a foul if (a) an opponent forcibly hits the quarterback’s head or neck area with his helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, or (b) if an opponent lowers his head and makes forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of his helmet against any part of the quarterback’s body. This provision (b) does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or the helmet in the course of a conventional block.

 

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET (8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers. Penalty: For Roughing the Passer: Loss of 15 yards from the previous spot; disqualification if flagrant. Note 1: If in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic on the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer. Note 2: See 8-6-2 for personal fouls prior to completion or interception. A.R. 12.21 Passer A1 is run into or tackled by defensive B1 after a pass. B1 had started his action prior to pass. Ruling: A legal action, unless the official rules that B1 had a reasonable chance to avoid or minimize the contact and made no attempt to do so.

 

***

I read this as saying section 2 still applies in Rodgers case, saying the defender cannot drive the QB into the ground even if he makes contact with the passer within the one step limitation described in section 1. It was a clear case of roughing IMO.

[26CornerBlitz]

OK, for those interested, if already posted sorry:

 

-This is the entire (I believe) section on roughing the passer. It contains 8 subsections, and #8 deals with QBs outside the pocket:

 

ROUGHING THE PASSER Article 13 Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against passers during or just after a pass which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles:

 

PASS LEAVING PASSER’S HAND; ONE-STEP RULE (1) Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant.

 

UNNECESSARY ACTS AGAINST PASSER (2) A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided for in (1) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up or cradle the passer with the defensive player’s arms.

 

HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK (3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 75 prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

 

CLUBBING PASSER’S ARM (4) A defensive player is prohibited from clubbing the arm of a passer during a pass or just after a pass has been thrown; however, a defensive player may grasp, pull, or otherwise make normal contact with a passer’s arm in attempting to tackle him;

 

HITTING PASSER’S KNEE (5) A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him; Note 1: A defender cannot initiate a roll or lunge and forcibly hit the passer in the knee area or below, even if he is being contacted by another player. Note 2: It is not a foul if the defender swipes, wraps, or grabs a passer in the knee area or below in an attempt to tackle him.

 

GRASP AND CONTROL (6) The Referee must blow the play dead as soon as the passer is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler behind the line, and the passer’s safety is in jeopardy;

 

PASSER OUT OF THE PLAY (7) A passer who is standing still or fading backwards after the ball has left his hand is obviously out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the defense through the end of the play or until the passer becomes a blocker, or until he becomes a runner upon taking a lateral from a teammate or picking up a loose ball, or, in the event of a change of possession on the play, until the passer assumes a distinctly defensive position. However, at any time after the change of possession, it is a foul if (a) an opponent forcibly hits the quarterback’s head or neck area with his helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, or (b) if an opponent lowers his head and makes forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of his helmet against any part of the quarterback’s body. This provision (b) does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or the helmet in the course of a conventional block.

 

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET (8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers. Penalty: For Roughing the Passer: Loss of 15 yards from the previous spot; disqualification if flagrant. Note 1: If in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic on the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer. Note 2: See 8-6-2 for personal fouls prior to completion or interception. A.R. 12.21 Passer A1 is run into or tackled by defensive B1 after a pass. B1 had started his action prior to pass. Ruling: A legal action, unless the official rules that B1 had a reasonable chance to avoid or minimize the contact and made no attempt to do so.

 

***

I read this as saying section 2 still applies in Rodgers case, saying the defender cannot drive the QB into the ground even if he makes contact with the passer within the one step limitation described in section 1. It was a clear case of roughing IMO.

 

Expert opinion:

 

@MikePereira

That hit on Rodgers was legal. He was out of the pocket on the run.

[GoBills808]

 

 

Expert opinion:

 

@MikePereira

That hit on Rodgers was legal. He was out of the pocket on the run.

 

I don't agree with him. I just explained why.