NoSaint Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 You've been watching him play..........do you honestly feel he was on his way to 8 sacks this year? In a fraction of the playing time street free agent Eddie Yarborough has put more pressure on the QB. This is a pass rusher friendly scheme. Well, first rounders are the focus of "bust" talk.........so if they get rid of Dareus the only two original first rounders left to disappoint will be 3D and Shaq. By your formula: CHAMPIONSHIP! I don't think he's GREAT. Certainly not a guy you take injured and burn a season on. But when I see stats tossed out without reference I often get curious and peeked at last year just to gauge. Credit to the person that found last year as an anomaly though. I was just bored on my phone and figured it a decent reference. If someone wants to look at his pressures vs production I'd be glad to take in the data point. By eye test I'd venture he likely comes in behind that pace this year but as a (kind of) first season wouldn't be shocked if that's the type of player he bdcomes over long stretches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Why would we not? Our 19th pick wasn't contingent on drafting DL only. That makes about as much sense as anything else you post. Getting a starter with sack stats in the top quartile of his league-wide positional peers with the 19th pick in any draft is a solid choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 You must not understand football to make such a statement. When the edge isn't properly set it means outside contain is lost and that leads to the defense getting gashed for big gains by an opponent's run game. Yep. That is one of Bill Belichick's main thing on his defence. If people don't think setting the edge is important, maybe they should ask one of the greatest coaches of all time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I kind of think of him as a rookie. New with this system for sure. In that respect he has done a very good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 That makes about as much sense as anything else you post. Getting a starter with sack stats in the top quartile of his league-wide positional peers with the 19th pick in any draft is a solid choice... He doesn't have those stats. He's projected to possibly have those stats. Would getting a kicker in the top quartile of his position with the 19th pick be a solid choice? No, because positions have different values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Number 19 pick overall. I give him a pass last year because he was hurt. I get that. But through 5 games he has 2 sacks and 12 tackles. When I watch him he just seems really slow. Is it the system or is he just not that good? Really low output for such a high draft pick. Disappointed. Why don't you come back when you learn how to watch a DE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I kind of think of him as a rookie. New with this system for sure. In that respect he has done a very good job. ....you mean FIVE games under his career belt is NOT sufficient time for him to prove himself according to the TBD Doctrine of Player Evaluation?........blasphemy......cut him............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 He doesn't have those stats. He's projected to possibly have those stats. Would getting a kicker in the top quartile of his position with the 19th pick be a solid choice? No, because positions have different values. Come on. You know we're talking DL. And this is about projected performance based on the various posts above. Even if we expand the discussion to the starting 22, landing a young player in any of those positions with top quartile positional stats (be they tackles, blocks, YAC, TDs) with the 19th selection is a solid pick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 ....you mean FIVE games under his career belt is NOT sufficient time for him to prove himself according to the TBD Doctrine of Player Evaluation?........blasphemy......cut him............. 14 is the new 5. Come on. You know we're talking DL. And this is about projected performance based on the various posts above. Even if we expand the discussion to the starting 22, landing a young player in any of those positions with top quartile positional stats (be they tackles, blocks, YAC, TDs) with the 19th selection is a solid pick... Maybe and maybe not. If they do it for one season, then regress? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 regress Well, this discussion certainly has. Move along, nothing to see here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Well, this discussion certainly has. Move along, nothing to see here... Jeez some folks really can't agree to disagree ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Why is this still being debated about til death? I wasn't here when we drafted Shaq but I can assure you I never thought we were getting a 10+ sack guy. And I'm ok with that He is an elite edge setter and a force in the run game. A true strong side defensive end who should be one of the best run stuffing ends in the game. He will give you 6-8 sacks a year and always have a high motor He was the 19th pick lol not the 5th. I knew we weren't getting von miller . He is a violent Defensive End, not a pass rush specialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 14 is the new 5. Maybe and maybe not. If they do it for one season, then regress? No. ....so then 14 leaves 'em 5 lives beyond his allotted nine.....now what?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) Why is this still being debated about til death? I wasn't here when we drafted Shaq but I can assure you I never thought we were getting a 10+ sack guy. And I'm ok with that He is an elite edge setter and a force in the run game. A true strong side defensive end who should be one of the best run stuffing ends in the game. He will give you 6-8 sacks a year and always have a high motor He was the 19th pick lol not the 5th. I knew we weren't getting von miller . He is a violent Defensive End, not a pass rush specialist When he was drafted, a very vocal number of fans thought Shaq was a top 5-10 talent who was drafted late because of his shoulder. His surgery and setback were regarded as the "price" for getting a top 5-10 talent at #19. And that once his shoulder healed, he would be a different player. That's why it's still debated. Edited October 13, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 When he was drafted, a very vocal number of fans thought Shaq was a top 5-10 talent who was drafted late because of his shoulder. His surgery and setback were regarded as the "price" for getting a top 5-10 talent at #19. And that once his shoulder healed, he would be a different player. That's why it's still debated. If you drafted the best 43 run stuffing defensive end in the NFL he very well may be a top 10 player from his draft. He doesn't need 12 sacks a year to be great IF you can't run to his side... he can make teams running games 1 dimensional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 When he was drafted, a very vocal number of fans thought Shaq was a top 5-10 talent who was drafted late because of his shoulder. His surgery and setback were regarded as the "price" for getting a top 5-10 talent at #19. And that once his shoulder healed, he would be a different player. That's why it's still debated. Shaq was not a pass rusher in college and is not primary a pass rusher today. He is a very, very good edge setter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 If you drafted the best 43 run stuffing defensive end in the NFL he very well may be a top 10 player from his draft. He doesn't need 12 sacks a year to be great IF you can't run to his side... he can make teams running games 1 dimensional Maybe, but maybe not. And he may not be worth the second contract he gets. Shaq was not a pass rusher in college and is not primary a pass rusher today. He is a very, very good edge setter. Agreed, but that was not argued last year. There were a ton of posts about his sack numbers in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) When he was drafted, a very vocal number of fans thought Shaq was a top 5-10 talent who was drafted late because of his shoulder. His surgery and setback were regarded as the "price" for getting a top 5-10 talent at #19. And that once his shoulder healed, he would be a different player. That's why it's still debated. Shaq wasn't drafted to be a terror of QB's. Here's his scouting report. DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1 SOURCES TELL US "I see Shaq as an outside linebacker in a 3-4. He's not the guy you want to turn loose against the quarterback, but he is the guy that will make it hard for tight ends to block him in the run game. We knew we couldnt run at him and it changed how we called plays." -- ACC offensive coach NFL COMPARISON Courtney Upshaw BOTTOM LINE Productive backup for two years before putting together an All-American season in his first year as a full- time starter. Lawson is built like a full-grown man and combines his instincts, toughness and power to fill up a stat sheet and set an early tone. Lawson's frame and game are easily translatable to the NFL, but his average athleticism and pass rush skills will likely have teams viewing him as a 3-4 edge setter or a 4-3 base end. Lawson may also have value as 3-4 defensive tackle in an upfield scheme. Edited October 13, 2017 by Royale with Cheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 He's good right now with lots of upside. Hasnt even had a full season's worth of games yet, be patient with the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Shaq wasn't drafted to be a terror of QB's. Here's his scouting report. DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1 SOURCES TELL US "I see Shaq as an outside linebacker in a 3-4. He's not the guy you want to turn loose against the quarterback, but he is the guy that will make it hard for tight ends to block him in the run game. We knew we couldnt run at him and it changed how we called plays." -- ACC offensive coach NFL COMPARISON Courtney Upshaw BOTTOM LINE Productive backup for two years before putting together an All-American season in his first year as a full- time starter. Lawson is built like a full-grown man and combines his instincts, toughness and power to fill up a stat sheet and set an early tone. Lawson's frame and game are easily translatable to the NFL, but his average athleticism and pass rush skills will likely have teams viewing him as a 3-4 edge setter or a 4-3 base end. Lawson may also have value as 3-4 defensive tackle in an upfield scheme. That is a key position on ANY DLine that wants to be dominant...Mario Williams when he was actually playing was vastly underrated at how good he was at setting the edge... You can have all the great pass rushers you want. If nobody can set the edge, teams will simply stop throwing and start running the ball to the outside and you will get gashed...like what happened under Pettine and Ryan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts