Fire Rico Now; be done with it.

[xRUSHx]

 

From what I've heard, Roman has some leadership/interpersonal shortcomings that tend to get him into trouble.

 

But maybe you bring him back as the run-game coordinator. He clearly has a genius for run schemes and the Shady-Taylor-MG running machine last season was magical.

Last season Roman was fired trying to make Tyrod into a QB. Again I see no reason why he would want to work with Tyrod again.

 

So we've got an old O line. And old RB. A schitty QB. And a WR corps that would be on most teams' practice squads.

 

And we want to fire the OC.

 

Brilliant.

 

!@#$ing brilliant.

Right on man,

 

OC#4 how many will Tyrod have before he's done in Buffalo, place your bets.

.

Edited October 10, 2017 by xRUSHx

[BillsFan130]

 

Based on an obviously premeditated organizational decision to develop Taylor into a pocket passing NFL quarterback as opposed to a running back who takes snaps from center.

 

The elimination of the read-option and any designed QB running plays combined with Taylor making multiple progressions as opposed to one-or-two-reads-then-run has made it much more difficult to run the ball. This is bad for the short-term but long-term it's going to show whether or not Taylor is worth investing in as the franchise starting QB for longer than a season or two.

 

Your original point was that if McDermott kept lynn, the run game would have been the same.

 

I am not talking about the future and seeing if Tyrod is the franchise guy, that is a completely different topic.

 

I am talking about Rico coming in and ruining the run game with his stupid stretch and sweep plays.

 

It is a fact that the bills went from 1st last year and I think 2nd the year before, to mediocre SINCE rico got hired. You can't even dispute that

Edited October 10, 2017 by billsfan11

[CookieG]

 

It's not fitting square pegs into round holes. It's for the long-term benefit of the organization. The Whaley/Marrone/Rex days of sacrificing the future in order to win now now now are over.

 

Stop what? Rational and logical thinking? This front office didn't sign Shady. They don't want a running back at Quarterback. They want a quarterback who can pass the ball.

 

Do you still think Rex is head coach? This is an odd post.

It is a long term benefit to build the offense through....Rick Dennison?

 

Denver created a long term AND short term benefit to their franchise by not retaining him.

 

If you're sacrificing short term success for some nebulous long term benefit...you do it with someone with a proven track record OR in some cases, take a chance on a young mind with new ideas.

 

For the life of me, I don't see how it is of any benefit, short or long term, to build a Dick Jauron offense.

 

Only a Buffalo fan, or maybe a hardcore Browns fan, would think that going from 10th in scoring to 25th in scoring...or a running game that averaged 5.6 ypc to one that averages 3.4 ypc as a good thing.

[BillsFan130]

It is a long term benefit to build the offense through....Rick Dennison?

 

Denver created a long term AND short term benefit to their franchise by not retaining him.

 

If you're sacrificing short term success for some nebulous long term benefit...you do it with someone with a proven track record OR in some cases, take a chance on a young mind with new ideas.

 

For the life of me, I don't see how it is of any benefit, short or long term, to build a Dick Jauron offense.

 

Only a Buffalo fan, or maybe a hardcore Browns fan, would think that going from 10th in scoring to 25th in scoring...or a running game that averaged 5.6 ypc to one that averages 3.4 ypc as a good thing.

Very good points. Dennison is a joke. We all know he really doesn't have much to work with, but it is pretty much a fact based on stats that he turned this run game/entire offence into trash with his predictable and vanilla schemes

[xRUSHx]

It is a long term benefit to build the offense through....Rick Dennison?

 

Denver created a long term AND short term benefit to their franchise by not retaining him.

 

If you're sacrificing short term success for some nebulous long term benefit...you do it with someone with a proven track record OR in some cases, take a chance on a young mind with new ideas.

 

For the life of me, I don't see how it is of any benefit, short or long term, to build a Dick Jauron offense.

 

Only a Buffalo fan, or maybe a hardcore Browns fan, would think that going from 10th in scoring to 25th in scoring...or a running game that averaged 5.6 ypc to one that averages 3.4 ypc as a good thing.

So name a OC that has a decent track record that would want to come here and take his scheme apart just so Tyrod can have what Tyrod wants?

 

Very good points. Dennison is a joke. We all know he really doesn't have much to work with, but it is pretty much a fact based on stats that he turned this run game/entire offence into trash with his predictable and vanilla schemes

Roman was called trash when he got fired. OC#4 Edited October 10, 2017 by xRUSHx

[CookieG]

So name a OC that has a decent track record that would want to come here and take his scheme apart just so Tyrod can have what Tyrod wants?

 

Roman was called trash when he got fired. OC#4

No, it is a matter of running an offense that actually showed some success UNTIL you get your franchise QB.

[Wayne Arnold]

Your original point was that if McDermott kept lynn, the run game would have been the same.

 

I am not talking about the future and seeing if Tyrod is the franchise guy, that is a completely different topic.

 

I am talking about Rico coming in and ruining the run game with his stupid stretch and sweep plays.

 

It is a fact that the bills went from 1st last year and I think 2nd the year before, to mediocre SINCE rico got hired. You can't even dispute that

 

Actually calling the run game 'mediocre' right now is being very kind.

 

It's actually not a different topic at all. If Lynn had somehow stayed and Beane and McDermott told him in July that there can be no read-option and Taylor must read the whole field before scrambling, how do you think the run game would be faring right now? Considering Glenn's injuries and the injuries to Matthews and Clay. You don't think they would still be struggling?

It is a long term benefit to build the offense through....Rick Dennison?

 

Denver created a long term AND short term benefit to their franchise by not retaining him.

 

If you're sacrificing short term success for some nebulous long term benefit...you do it with someone with a proven track record OR in some cases, take a chance on a young mind with new ideas.

 

For the life of me, I don't see how it is of any benefit, short or long term, to build a Dick Jauron offense.

 

Only a Buffalo fan, or maybe a hardcore Browns fan, would think that going from 10th in scoring to 25th in scoring...or a running game that averaged 5.6 ypc to one that averages 3.4 ypc as a good thing.

 

What's your problem with this system? It has worked in this league for years.

 

No one is saying the drop is a good thing.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

This reminds me so much of the Jay Cutler fiasco in Chicago, I think Cutler went through 5 Coodinators. If you could learn anything from that as a fan it's that both have to go.

[xRUSHx]

This reminds me so much of the Jay Cutler fiasco in Chicago, I think Cutler went through 5 Coodinators. If you could learn anything from that as a fan it's that both have to go.

Wow Cutler had 5, I can see that happening here. This would be #4 so very close

[Simon Says]

FYI: "take a powder' actually means "run away from", so, yeah.

As to firing Rico, and Castillo? The bye week would be the time to do it, but can you promote from within to maintain some consistency?

While they may have a bad (and injured) group of receivers, the coaches are responsible for making it work. Apparently, they aren't magicians.

I dont expect them to trade draft choices, they have about $8 million cap available, and are constrained by the number of injured players on the active roster.

Two TE's (Thomas and Lee) haven' done anything, and Bills are thin at WR. Wonder if they would talk to Barnidge and a free agent WR. Promoting Reilly would be popular but what can he realistically do?

Edited October 10, 2017 by Pablocruise

[BillsFan130]

 

Actually calling the run game 'mediocre' right now is being very kind.

 

It's actually not a different topic at all. If Lynn had somehow stayed and Beane and McDermott told him in July that there can be no read-option and Taylor must read the whole field before scrambling, how do you think the run game would be faring right now? Considering Glenn's injuries and the injuries to Matthews and Clay. You don't think they would still be struggling?

 

Why would you want to take out the best thing that taylor does though? Read option is by no means a gimmick offence. Russell Wilson has won a superbowl because his o coordinator designed an offence best suited for him (Which was a lot of read option and roll outs).

 

Dak Prescott does a lot of read offence and they have one of the best offences in the NFL.

 

Cam Newton almost won a superbowl with a lot of read option.

 

I am not saying he has to have a college type offence like the last couple years, but at least add run plays like the read option that have worked well in the past.

 

Why would you want to get rid of something your QB/RB's/O Line does best?

Edited October 10, 2017 by billsfan11

[The Big Cat]

Firing coordinators every ~25 games has really paid dividends for this franchise that hasn't had a quarterback for 20 years.

[CookieG]

 

What's your problem with this system? It has worked in this league for years.

 

No one is saying the drop is a good thing.

 

The "for years" part is a clue. There's really nothing new or innovative any more.

 

But the answer is far more than that. It isn't just scheme..its who is running the scheme.

 

A quote earlier this year by CJ Anderson sums up my thoughts best...

 

"In the other scheme, it was, 'we're gonna run what we run,'" Anderson said of Kubiak's system. "This one is, 'we're gonna put our athletes in the best position to make plays.'"

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000847373/article/mike-mccoys-offensive-makeover-on-display-in-broncos-win

 

Read what the players are saying and why they like McCoy...not so much the McCoy system because he doesn't have a single "system"...but McCoy as an OC play caller.

 

He looks to attack.

He looks to exploit a weakness.

He looks to out scheme

He looks to keep a D off balance

He looks to put his players in a position to succeed

 

 

He DOESN'T look to "run what we run"

 

Denver had a few upgrades to their O line..but is basically the same offensive personnel as last year. But their offense is completely different. Because the attitude is completely different.

 

If you take a look at the Chiefs...you can see what a little imagination does for a team. This is a team that has a QB who was considered smart, with some running ability, but with a limited arm and a limited medium to deep game. They cut their best WR and lost their best RB in the preseason. They had one viable deep threat.

 

Yet they are blowing away the NFL with their offense. Their 3rd round rb..who has a 40 time north of 4.6, already has 7 runs of more than 20 yards and 3 of more than 40.

 

Why?

 

Because Andy Reid is sending in plays that are constantly keeping D's off balance and on their heels.

 

In a large way, the Bills running game of '15 and '16 did that. Off balance formations, misdirection, options, forcing a team to move in one direction while hitting them with a counter...it worked.

 

Its been replaced by "stretch play left" and with predictable results.

 

I don't see "running what we run" as much of a rallying cry, or short term benefit OR long term benefit.

 

I have 0 problems with implementing a pass game to exploit the talents of your franchise QB ...WHEN you have your franchise QB.

 

Until then...running your system because its what you do ...is basically throwing up a white flag.

 

And I wouldn't want a player, or a coach, that wants to throw up a white flag.

[26TrapDraw]

Firing coordinators every ~25 games has really paid dividends for this franchise that hasn't had a quarterback for 20 years.

Spot on old Chap

[Bakin]

Denver fans were happy to see him go

Bills fans were also happy to see Marrone go and he's quietly building an actual bully in JAX.

Bills fans are often a terrible judge of talent and far too hasty to make moves (even on a message board).

And so, I believe, this is way too short a time frame to pass judgement.

[scribo]

How is the world can he not get blood from a turnip?

[Augie]

The "for years" part is a clue. There's really nothing new or innovative any more.

 

But the answer is far more than that. It isn't just scheme..its who is running the scheme.

 

A quote earlier this year by CJ Anderson sums up my thoughts best...

 

"In the other scheme, it was, 'we're gonna run what we run,'" Anderson said of Kubiak's system. "This one is, 'we're gonna put our athletes in the best position to make plays.'"

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000847373/article/mike-mccoys-offensive-makeover-on-display-in-broncos-win

 

Read what the players are saying and why they like McCoy...not so much the McCoy system because he doesn't have a single "system"...but McCoy as an OC play caller.

 

He looks to attack.

He looks to exploit a weakness.

He looks to out scheme

He looks to keep a D off balance

He looks to put his players in a position to succeed

 

 

He DOESN'T look to "run what we run"

 

Denver had a few upgrades to their O line..but is basically the same offensive personnel as last year. But their offense is completely different. Because the attitude is completely different.

 

If you take a look at the Chiefs...you can see what a little imagination does for a team. This is a team that has a QB who was considered smart, with some running ability, but with a limited arm and a limited medium to deep game. They cut their best WR and lost their best RB in the preseason. They had one viable deep threat.

 

Yet they are blowing away the NFL with their offense. Their 3rd round rb..who has a 40 time north of 4.6, already has 7 runs of more than 20 yards and 3 of more than 40.

 

Why?

 

Because Andy Reid is sending in plays that are constantly keeping D's off balance and on their heels.

 

In a large way, the Bills running game of '15 and '16 did that. Off balance formations, misdirection, options, forcing a team to move in one direction while hitting them with a counter...it worked.

 

Its been replaced by "stretch play left" and with predictable results.

 

I don't see "running what we run" as much of a rallying cry, or short term benefit OR long term benefit.

 

I have 0 problems with implementing a pass game to exploit the talents of your franchise QB ...WHEN you have your franchise QB.

 

Until then...running your system because its what you do ...is basically throwing up a white flag.

 

And I wouldn't want a player, or a coach, that wants to throw up a white flag.

There's a lot to like in here.

[Wayne Arnold]

Why would you want to take out the best thing that taylor does though? Read option is by no means a gimmick offence. Russell Wilson has won a superbowl because his o coordinator designed an offence best suited for him (Which was a lot of read option and roll outs).

 

Dak Prescott does a lot of read offence and they have one of the best offences in the NFL.

 

Cam Newton almost won a superbowl with a lot of read option.

 

I am not saying he has to have a college type offence like the last couple years, but at least add run plays like the read option that have worked well in the past.

 

Why would you want to get rid of something your QB/RB's/O Line does best?

 

That's a legitimate question. And in my opinion the answer is because the current coaching staff and front office collectively do not believe that an NFL team cannot sustain a productive offense year after year with a college-style QB-mobile offense.

 

If you can't sustain it for the long-term, then why would you implement it in Year 1?

 

The "for years" part is a clue. There's really nothing new or innovative any more.

 

But the answer is far more than that. It isn't just scheme..its who is running the scheme.

 

A quote earlier this year by CJ Anderson sums up my thoughts best...

 

"In the other scheme, it was, 'we're gonna run what we run,'" Anderson said of Kubiak's system. "This one is, 'we're gonna put our athletes in the best position to make plays.'"

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000847373/article/mike-mccoys-offensive-makeover-on-display-in-broncos-win

 

Read what the players are saying and why they like McCoy...not so much the McCoy system because he doesn't have a single "system"...but McCoy as an OC play caller.

 

He looks to attack.

He looks to exploit a weakness.

He looks to out scheme

He looks to keep a D off balance

He looks to put his players in a position to succeed

 

 

He DOESN'T look to "run what we run"

 

Denver had a few upgrades to their O line..but is basically the same offensive personnel as last year. But their offense is completely different. Because the attitude is completely different.

 

If you take a look at the Chiefs...you can see what a little imagination does for a team. This is a team that has a QB who was considered smart, with some running ability, but with a limited arm and a limited medium to deep game. They cut their best WR and lost their best RB in the preseason. They had one viable deep threat.

 

Yet they are blowing away the NFL with their offense. Their 3rd round rb..who has a 40 time north of 4.6, already has 7 runs of more than 20 yards and 3 of more than 40.

 

Why?

 

Because Andy Reid is sending in plays that are constantly keeping D's off balance and on their heels.

 

In a large way, the Bills running game of '15 and '16 did that. Off balance formations, misdirection, options, forcing a team to move in one direction while hitting them with a counter...it worked.

 

Its been replaced by "stretch play left" and with predictable results.

 

I don't see "running what we run" as much of a rallying cry, or short term benefit OR long term benefit.

 

I have 0 problems with implementing a pass game to exploit the talents of your franchise QB ...WHEN you have your franchise QB.

 

Until then...running your system because its what you do ...is basically throwing up a white flag.

 

And I wouldn't want a player, or a coach, that wants to throw up a white flag.

 

Players say that every year about the previous scheme. 49ers players and fans said it about Greg Roman. Every coach gets fired. It doesn't mean much to me. I didn't hear Flacco complaining about the system when he had his best season in it in 2014.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

C'mon man. Look what Rico did what the run game. Has absolutely nothing to do with the WRS. He took the number 1 rush offence to trash. How do you explain that with the same running back and virtually same o line minus cordy glenn missing a few games?

1. We have no WRs. So it's easy to stack the box. Also we. Run a Tight End heavy offense and our TEs are fringe NFLers behind Clay.

 

2. Our backup RB is Tolbert, a 260 pound Fullback. Nobody else gets any carries.

 

3. Fire RICO and replace him with someone else on McDermott's staff who is equally as conservative and ultimately has to share McDermotts simple approach.

 

4. IMO fans overrate scheme and underrate talent and depth.

 

5. In today's NFL the Bills are still trying to line up and run over people. McCoy is not imposing and Tolbert is too slow.

 

6. The lack of speed jumps off the screen.

Keyword Cookie G. You actually have to have athletes.

[BillsFan130]

 

That's a legitimate question. And in my opinion the answer is because the current coaching staff and front office collectively do not believe that an NFL team cannot sustain a productive offense year after year with a college-style QB-mobile offense.

 

If you can't sustain it for the long-term, then why would you implement it in Year 1?

 

It does not have to be a college offence though as I stated in my previous post. Just pick a few things that Tyrod does best and use it more. If it isn't broke don't fix it.

 

You implement it because this is the hand dennison has been given. He has a mobile QB who is very dangerous in a zone read offence and out of the pocket.

 

But yet he tries to make him a pocket passer and completely ignores the bills run scheme from previous years.

 

It is just beyond stupid to me.

 

Seattle does not ask Russell Wilson to be something he is not. Cowboys don't ask Dak. Houston is not asking Deshaun Watson. Because those offensive coordinators and coaches are playing towards the strength of their QBS.

 

Out of curiosity what do you like about Dennison's offence, even if we did have a top 10 passing QB?

 

 

 

 

To

1. We have no WRs. So it's easy to stack the box. Also we. Run a Tight End heavy offense and our TEs are fringe NFLers behind Clay.

 

2. Our backup RB is Tolbert, a 260 pound Fullback. Nobody else gets any carries.

 

3. Fire RICO and replace him with someone else on McDermott's staff who is equally as conservative and ultimately has to share McDermotts simple approach.

 

4. IMO fans overrate scheme and underrate talent and depth.

 

5. In today's NFL the Bills are still trying to line up and run over people. McCoy is not imposing and Tolbert is too slow.

 

6. The lack of speed jumps off the screen.

Keyword Cookie G. You actually have to have athletes.

 

Last year team's stacked 8 in the box a lot as well but the Bills could basically ran it at will.

 

It is inexcusable to go from #2 rush offence in 2015 and #1 in 2016 to terrible. How do you believe it is not scheme based on what you have seen so far?

 

Team's had to account for tyrods legs last year, but they don't even have to anymore. They don't ever use him as a running threat option which is why I believe there are barely any holes for Shady. All of a sudden incognito and wood can't run block?.. Nope, it is our idiot vanilla o coordinator

Edited October 10, 2017 by billsfan11