GunnerBill Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 If Taylor had missed so many throws so badly there would have been no limit to the rage and indignation. You definitely wouldn't see this milquetoast "some good; some bad". It would be screeching fury-style contempt. So, yes, a double standard.... Okay find me an example of when I have done that on Tyrod. Most of my comments on Tyrod have been exactly "some good; some bad". The fact is I am balanced on Tyrod and I am balanced on other Quarterbacks. I don't have different standards at all but sure, keep, telling yourself I do if it makes you feel better about the Bills. It's becoming increasingly difficult to have any rational conversation on the subject of any Quarterback in the league on this forum because there is a relentless agenda against anyone who is seen as being in some way disloyal to Taylor. I don't even know how my view differs from most of you. I don't think he is a franchise Quarterback, think he is absolutely our best option now, think the Bills should be focussed on getting better there when the draft opportunity arises.
Billsfansinceday1 Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 I have to say I expected the Bucs to be vastly improved this year. They haven't been and Winston seems to be regressing.
HappyDays Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Okay find me an example of when I have done that on Tyrod. Most of my comments on Tyrod have been exactly "some good; some bad". The fact is I am balanced on Tyrod and I am balanced on other Quarterbacks. I don't have different standards at all but sure, keep, telling yourself I do if it makes you feel better about the Bills. It's becoming increasingly difficult to have any rational conversation on the subject of any Quarterback in the league on this forum because there is a relentless agenda against anyone who is seen as being in some way disloyal to Taylor. I don't even know how my view differs from most of you. I don't think he is a franchise Quarterback, think he is absolutely our best option now, think the Bills should be focussed on getting better there when the draft opportunity arises. I mean you said yesterday in this thread that you feel 100% comfortable with Winston as your QB moving forward. Do you still feel that way? One game shouldn't be enough to change your mind, but Winston has a bunch of games like yesterday on his resume. I don't think most Bills fans watch other QBs very much or they'd have a different opinion on how far Tyrod can take us.
IDBillzFan Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 I think the Jets cover I had TB covering last night on the early line of +5.5. It closed at 4. Should have never been close.
GunnerBill Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 I mean you said yesterday in this thread that you feel 100% comfortable with Winston as your QB moving forward. Do you still feel that way? One game shouldn't be enough to change your mind, but Winston has a bunch of games like yesterday on his resume. I don't think most Bills fans watch other QBs very much or they'd have a different opinion on how far Tyrod can take us. I watch other Quarterbacks A LOT. Yes, for now, I would still be comfortable with Mariota or Winston as my Quarterback. Am I definite that either of them will be franchise Quarterbacks? No. Both are under contract for this year, next year and then an option year before I need to make a decision on them.
Coach Tuesday Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Wow what a joke of a game. The Pats once again get all the lucky breaks. Is it not enough that they won their last 2 SBs because of luck and poor coaching decisions by their opposition? But the luck just keeps on coming. Folk missing those FG's and then the bonehead TB coach thinking that somehow that Folk is in the right mindset for a good onside kick? Which of course was predictably terrible. All I could think of was that Folk was the kicker who BEAT US on Monday night with the Cowboys with a clutch FG and great onside kick. But NOOOOO the Pats get him at his cratering of his skill level because luck follows them everywhere. So sick of this of this crap. If Taylor had missed so many throws so badly there would have been no limit to the rage and indignation. You definitely wouldn't see this milquetoast "some good; some bad". It would be screeching fury-style contempt. So, yes, a double standard.... Also, newsflash : Winston "left some plays on the field". So did Brady. It's not the missed throws with Winston as much as it's the careless throws. If Tyrod was sailing balls into double-coverage off his back foot like Winston was last night, the calls to replace him would be at a fever pitch (he also wouldn't be winning us games, because his success is all about limiting stupid turnovers). As for Tyrod - let's just see how things play out. It's only Week 5, there is a lot of football left to be played and Ty is gonna have to carry this team to a couple of victories and/or win a couple of shootouts at some point. He really hasn't been too tested yet - he's been able to play within his skills and the D has kept the games close enough. Let's just see.
blacklabel Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Folk cost TB the game. Left 9 points out there.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Folk cost TB the game. Left 9 points out there. You can forgive a 56 yard miss and maybe a 49 yarder. The 31 yard FG miss is 100% inexcusable. Gotta let him go.
SoTier Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 I dunno man. Granted I only watched the first half - but Winston was unwatchable in the first half. Every time I watch Winston play he's lofting college-type passes into double coverage off of his back foot. Sure he's streaky and he'll put up yards and points against bad defenses, but when you watch him do you ever think, There's a guy who can take over a game? There's a guy who can will his team to a Super Bowl title? I sure don't. I just don't get the hype. Half of his game is just garbage. ^^^ His first half last night was terrible I absolutely agree with that. I think he still needs to be more consistent within games and across a season. There is a bit of early Matt Stafford in him in that he has never seen a throw he doesn't like. At the moment does he look like a Superbowl winning Quarterback? No, I agree he doesn't. I still think Tampa are a flawed team though. The pieces around him look better on paper than in reality and the coaching is crap. Actually, if you compare Taylor's three years as a starter to Winston's three years as a starter, Taylor's completion % and QB rating are all higher than Winston's. Taylor's INT % is significantly lower than Winston's while his QBR for his two complete years is higher than Winston's as well. Winston has throw for more yards but he has 294 more passing attempts than Taylor has had in the last 3 years. Taylor's Y/A is only .1 lower than Winston's. For QBs playing on teams with very different offensive philosophies, their stats are very similar when you look at the percentages and averages for them both as starters rather than just the raw numbers. Many of the same fans who believe Winston is a "franchise QB" regularly hate on Taylor because he doesn't put up the big raw stats that Winston does, apparently forgetting that the Bills are not a passing team and that the goal of playing games is to win them, not pass for 300+ yards and garner FFB points. If the Bills continue to play well and win games with Taylor throwing for around +/-200 yards a game, taking care of the ball, and making key plays as he's done, how is he not a "franchise QB"? A franchise QB does what he needs to do with what he's got in order to win games ... and not only doesn't Taylor have the wide receivers to have success throwing the ball a lot downfield, but that's not the Bills' offensive philosophy.
HappyDays Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 I watch other Quarterbacks A LOT. Yes, for now, I would still be comfortable with Mariota or Winston as my Quarterback. Am I definite that either of them will be franchise Quarterbacks? No. Both are under contract for this year, next year and then an option year before I need to make a decision on them. Maybe my question wasn't clear then. I don't like the term "franchise QB" but that's basically what I was asking. Obviously I'm not saying they should cut Winston after the year. If you don't feel 100% comfortable with him as the franchise, shouldn't the Bucs pull out all the stops to get a top QB next year? Or should they use more picks to build around him? I think about half the teams in the league should be asking these questions. I don't think the Bills are in a different kind of situation than most teams out there. Tyrod isn't going to command a huge contract so I don't think that changes things much. If QB is the most important position should that even matter?
mannc Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 ^^^ Actually, if you compare Taylor's three years as a starter to Winston's three years as a starter, Taylor's completion % and QB rating are all higher than Winston's. Taylor's INT % is significantly lower than Winston's while his QBR for his two complete years is higher than Winston's as well. Winston has throw for more yards but he has 294 more passing attempts than Taylor has had in the last 3 years. Taylor's Y/A is only .1 lower than Winston's. For QBs playing on teams with very different offensive philosophies, their stats are very similar when you look at the percentages and averages for them both as starters rather than just the raw numbers. Many of the same fans who believe Winston is a "franchise QB" regularly hate on Taylor because he doesn't put up the big raw stats that Winston does, apparently forgetting that the Bills are not a passing team and that the goal of playing games is to win them, not pass for 300+ yards and garner FFB points. If the Bills continue to play well and win games with Taylor throwing for around +/-200 yards a game, taking care of the ball, and making key plays as he's done, how is he not a "franchise QB"? A franchise QB does what he needs to do with what he's got in order to win games ... and not only doesn't Taylor have the wide receivers to have success throwing the ball a lot downfield, but that's not the Bills' offensive philosophy. If I had to win a big game tomorrow, I would absolutely take Tyrod over Winston. Winston has all the measurables, but he just makes a lot of bad decisions and doesn't seem like a great leader. Reminds me of Cam Newton. The Pats gave him all day to throw and bet that he would not find the open man. It mostly worked.
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 You can forgive a 56 yard miss and maybe a 49 yarder. The 31 yard FG miss is 100% inexcusable. Gotta let him go. The way he missed the 56 yard FG was sort of inexcusable. Thing never had a chance.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 The way he missed the 56 yard FG was sort of inexcusable. Thing never had a chance. It was rather ugly. At any rate, the expected is happening: @RapSheet The #Bucs are arranging kicker workouts, sources say, which does not bode well for K Nick Folk. Likely to wait to see how kickers perform.
JM2009 Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 NE looks like they are beatable. We'll see. We know TB is.
GunnerBill Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Maybe my question wasn't clear then. I don't like the term "franchise QB" but that's basically what I was asking. Obviously I'm not saying they should cut Winston after the year. If you don't feel 100% comfortable with him as the franchise, shouldn't the Bucs pull out all the stops to get a top QB next year? Or should they use more picks to build around him? I think about half the teams in the league should be asking these questions. I don't think the Bills are in a different kind of situation than most teams out there. Tyrod isn't going to command a huge contract so I don't think that changes things much. If QB is the most important position should that even matter? And what I am saying is the contract and the timing plays into that evaluation. When you draft a rookie you get 4 pretty cheap years and a 5th option year so if you get decent standard QB play for that contract you roll with it and use the money to build a team around them. At the end of that contract comes your decision point (unless they suck sufficiently that you have to pull the chord sooner). My view is, and remains, that you don't pay the Quarterback big money at that stage unless you are pretty sure what you have. I'd rather find a bridge and dip into the draft again.
SaviorPeterman Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Unless last night's game is a mirage, the Pats defense looked much better which puts even more pressure on the Bills to keep pace this week and beat the Bengals. With that said, it's amazing how teams seem to crumble when playing the Pats and if the Bucs had a decent kicker they might have still won the game.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Hopefully they keep Folk through our game. Doubt it. @RapSheet Ian Rapoport Retweeted Ian Rapoport Names who will be present thus far: Andrew Franks, Mike Nugent. 2-3 others will be as well.
grb Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 ^^^ Actually, if you compare Taylor's three years as a starter to Winston's three years as a starter, Taylor's completion % and QB rating are all higher than Winston's. Taylor's INT % is significantly lower than Winston's while his QBR for his two complete years is higher than Winston's as well. Winston has throw for more yards but he has 294 more passing attempts than Taylor has had in the last 3 years. Taylor's Y/A is only .1 lower than Winston's. For QBs playing on teams with very different offensive philosophies, their stats are very similar when you look at the percentages and averages for them both as starters rather than just the raw numbers. Many of the same fans who believe Winston is a "franchise QB" regularly hate on Taylor because he doesn't put up the big raw stats that Winston does, apparently forgetting that the Bills are not a passing team and that the goal of playing games is to win them, not pass for 300+ yards and garner FFB points. If the Bills continue to play well and win games with Taylor throwing for around +/-200 yards a game, taking care of the ball, and making key plays as he's done, how is he not a "franchise QB"? A franchise QB does what he needs to do with what he's got in order to win games ... and not only doesn't Taylor have the wide receivers to have success throwing the ball a lot downfield, but that's not the Bills' offensive philosophy. ESPN recently did a “who’s a contender; who’s a pretender” thing looking at multiple teams, including the Bucs & Bills. With Tampa, they listed Winston as a plus with this logic : Why they'll stay in contention: Winning five straight so late in the season last year means you can't ever count them out. They also have a quarterback in Jameis Winston who has shown he can bounce back very quickly from poor performances. He went from throwing three interceptions against the Minnesota Vikings in Week 3 to having a three-touchdown, no-interception performance against the Giants. That struck me as kinda weird. The ability to have back-to-back three td & three interception games isn’t that notable and is hardly a virtue. Then it struck me : The sportswriter made such a lame case for JW because he didn’t have to do better. Why even bother to put in an effort? Winston’s awesomeness is already hard-wired into the narrative. Major college program, national championship, first overall pick, etc. It’s possible he can play his way out of awesomeness, but only by a long concerted effort. It’s possible he can make enough bad throws in a game people won’t gush over the good ones, but it’s going to have to be a pretty unbalanced ratio. Of course some quarterbacks aren’t on so long a leash……
mannc Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 ESPN recently did a whos a contender; whos a pretender thing looking at multiple teams, including the Bucs & Bills. With Tampa, they listed Winston as a plus with this logic : Why they'll stay in contention: Winning five straight so late in the season last year means you can't ever count them out. They also have a quarterback in Jameis Winston who has shown he can bounce back very quickly from poor performances. He went from throwing three interceptions against the Minnesota Vikings in Week 3 to having a three-touchdown, no-interception performance against the Giants. That struck me as kinda weird. The ability to have back-to-back three td & three interception games isnt that notable and is hardly a virtue. Then it struck me : The sportswriter made such a lame case for JW because he didnt have to do better. Why even bother to put in an effort? Winstons awesomeness is already hard-wired into the narrative. Major college program, national championship, first overall pick, etc. Its possible he can play his way out of awesomeness, but only by a long concerted effort. Its possible he can make enough bad throws in a game people wont gush over the good ones, but its going to have to be a pretty unbalanced ratio. Of course some quarterbacks arent on so long a leash Guys who are 6'5", former number 1 overall picks are given the benefit of every doubt. Guys like Kirk Cousins and Tyrod will have to prove themselves over and over.
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