SaviorPeterman Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 It depends how gullible you are. Consider that Taylor is : 8th in QB rating (the NFL version, not ESPN's) 13th in Completion percentage 10th in yards per attempt So, he completes a high percentage of throws, for a very good average per attempt, and he rarely makes mistakes. He's a playmaker, regularly delivering big-time passes and critical third downs. He's had a sub-par running attack and a receiver group among the worse in the league. And yet some people are gullible enough to believe all of this is some kind of illusion. It turns out ANYONE can have a top-ten quarterback rating, as long as the coaches bother to engineer the accomplishment - thru their effort, not the player's. Kinda makes you wonder why more coaches don't perform this magical transubstantiation, doesn't it? Stats can be misleading especially when you are a running a very limited offense and not taking a lot of chances. Like I said, I give Taylor credit for not making killer mistakes and running an efficient, ball control type of offense. But let's see what the numbers look like when he has to throw the ball downfield for the Bills to come back and win a game. And if history has shown us anything the last 3 years he's not capable of doing that even with better WR talent around him compared to this year.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Taylor has the leadership qualities of a franchise QB. The players respond to him. Leadership is good.
GunnerBill Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Taylor has the leadership qualities of a franchise QB. The players respond to him. He does. That is beyond question.
SaviorPeterman Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Taylor has the leadership qualities of a franchise QB. The players respond to him. Fitzpatrick was a leader too but fell short in other areas similar to Taylor.
JM2009 Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Fitzpatrick was a leader too but fell short in other areas similar to Taylor. Fitz was a turnover machine.
Bangarang Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Cautiously optimistic but still keeping an eye out for upgrades through the draft.
grb Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Especially when the defense struggles or has an off day? What happens when we are down 14 points or more because it's going to happen sooner than later even if the defense is sustainable. Absolutely. Weird. OK. Let's do this again : (1) Take Taylor's record starting. (2) Go five games back. (3) What do you find? The defense was horrible The Bills were down 14pts three separate times in a single game It was a total shootout, with a thousand yards of total offense So what happened? Taylor played excellent and ran a two minute drive to throw a touchdown for the lead with just over a minute left. Will he do it the next time? We'll see. But its absolutely wacko how often people raise this scenario as something Taylor must fail at, all immediate evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.
SaviorPeterman Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Fitz was a turnover machine. Yes but at least he took chances and was capable of regular 300+ yard games. Taylor's numbers have always been misleading because he rarely throws the ball more than 10 yards, although last week in Atlanta certainly give him credit for finding Clay downfield a few times. Absolutely. Weird. OK. Let's do this again : (1) Take Taylor's record starting. (2) Go five games back. (3) What do you find? The defense was horrible The Bills were down 14pts three separate times in a single game It was a total shootout, with a thousand yards of total offense So what happened? Taylor played excellent and ran a two minute drive to throw a touchdown for the lead with just over a minute left. Will he do it the next time? We'll see. But its absolutely wacko how often people raise this scenario as something Taylor must fail at, all immediate evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. Most marginal NFL QB's can have success when your defense is playing at an elite level and allowing less than 13 points a game. Same reason why the Chiefs have won a lot of games in recent years with Alex Smith. Taylor is no better than he was the last few years, he's the same guy but his flaws haven't been an issue other than the Panthers game because we've been able to score enough points to win and hold other teams in check. But again, I maintain this is not sustainable over a 16 game season. At some point this defense will give up a lot of points and have a few bad games here and there and that's when Taylors glaring deficiences will once again be on full display.
grb Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) Taylor's numbers have always been misleading because he rarely throws the ball more than 10 yards, although last week in Atlanta certainly give him credit for finding Clay downfield a few times. So how's the weather there, in that parallel universe where Taylor "rarely throw the ball more than 10 yards"...... Hope you're having sunshine & warm temperatures !!! Edited October 6, 2017 by grb
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) I've been hearing about more passes downfield @ Atlanta lately. 12 / 20 passing IIRC. What % of the 20 were downfield? Edited October 6, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan
x-BillzeBubba Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 But again, does anybody truly believe he's going to be able to lead this team to wins in crucial games down the stretch? Especially when the defense struggles or has an off day? What happens when we are down 14 points or more because it's going to happen sooner than later even if the defense is sustainable. Over and over again you post that strawman hypothetical. You really think a QB's true worth is only measurable when he's down by 14 in the 4th? This is using the worst-case hypothetical scenario on which to base a QB, a low % likelyhood of success when up against even a middle-tier D... and against Carolina TT almost did exactly what you say he cant do, made great throws to march the O downfield, got hosed on a truly stupid penalty, overcame somewhat dodgy clock management, and sadly had only one attempt to a rookie WR to hit for a possible game-winner...when we should have had 1-2 more shots at the EZ imo The problem in the Carolina game wasn't the last minute QB performance it was the horrors of the first half. He can certainly take some blame for that.
grb Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) I've been hearing about more passes downfield @ Atlanta lately. 12 / 20 passing IIRC. What % of the 20 were downfield? Dang if I know. Two to Clay. Two or three more attempts to Jones. I'd say a minimum of 25% of total attempts, but that could be a low estimate. Edited October 6, 2017 by grb
SaviorPeterman Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 So how's the weather there, in that parallel universe where Taylor "rarely throw the ball more than 10 yards"...... Hope you're having sunshine & warm temperatures !!! Believe what you want but it's the facts. Again, I'm not trashing Taylor. He's been perfectly adequate for the most part this season. My main argument (which I know a lot of other fans, media, etc agree with) is he's not a franchise QB and not capable of leading a team with a poor to average defense. He proved that the last two years. So if the idea in the short term is we are trying to emulate what the Chiefs have done in recent years with Alex Smith and their defense so be it, might be good enough to get to the playoffs but not win games there.
bobobonators Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Some experts believe Taylor's success is overblown and merely the product of the Bills defense being so stingy and keeping them in games. And quite frankly, it's hard to argue this so far: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/10/6/16433928/buffalo-bills-qb-tyrod-taylor-rick-dennison-sean-mcdermott-interceptions-limitations-problems This is nothing new from Andy. He will keep writing the same article over and over and over and over again until Tyrod is no longer starting. Unfortunately for Andy, he's going to have to keep doubling down on his Tyrod rhetoric longer than he ever anticipated. Maybe the one who really cant "anticipate" plays here is Andy. He wrote the same crap in sept of last year..as the Bills offense went on to be top 8 in scoring in the NFL deep into the season. For an offense that is so "crippled" by Tyrod, one wonders how they ever manage to score. Maybe its Julio Jones on our team that is responsible for all of the offense. Oh wait we dont have him. Surely its Zeek Elliott who is responsible for the offense. Oh wait we dont have him. Maybe its Travis Kelce?? Wait we dont have him either. Shady? We have him and his single 100yd rushing game through 4 games. It must be our Oline thats just bursting with All Pro talents like Mills, Dawkings, Wood, and Miller. All-pro indeed. Benoit needs to go away and stop recycling the saaaaame garbage every season. Its not a good look.
Scott7975 Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) Taylor has done everything the OC has asked him to do and did it well. Don't understand the mindset of him not being able to do more if it was asked of him. The offense has been completely on his back with not much of a running game and he is getting it done. It is not his fault the coaches go into a shell with a 1 score lead. No he isn't going to win a shoot out with Brady but almost no one does. The only time the ball has moved is when the offense opens up. So why all of a sudden would it not move if they opened it up more often? I also don't understand people changing the goal posts every season. Last year it was he only throws down the sidelines. The year before he didn't use the TE enough. This year he throws over the middle more often and uses TEs more than receivers. When are people going to understand that he is doing what is being asked of him? If you take all 3 seasons and combine them he has done everything that people complain he hasn't done. People are just complaining about what he in the moment isn't doing but he has done it all. Yes they should still draft someone but Tyrod is largely unappreciated and way under rated by a lot of people because he isn't Tom Brady. Edited October 6, 2017 by Scott7975
transplantbillsfan Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Benoit has always disliked Taylor. This just sounds like he's doubling down. He doesn't help his own credibility with the way he talks about the secondary or our pass rushers in that article, though. He glazed over Gaines and Poyer like they were just low level journeymen when Poyer has arguably been our most dominant defensive player throughout our first 4 games.
Mat68 Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Believe what you want but it's the facts. Again, I'm not trashing Taylor. He's been perfectly adequate for the most part this season. My main argument (which I know a lot of other fans, media, etc agree with) is he's not a franchise QB and not capable of leading a team with a poor to average defense. He proved that the last two years. So if the idea in the short term is we are trying to emulate what the Chiefs have done in recent years with Alex Smith and their defense so be it, might be good enough to get to the playoffs but not win games there. Mcdermott's largest mentor is Reid, so of course he was going to model his team and style after Reid. That is not a bad thing. I would argue that Ried is the best coach to never win a Superbowl. Turned around 2 franchises in short order and made both into perennial contenders. There are only 3 franchise QBs. Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are the only guys who are done 14 in the 4th who are still right in it.
Gugny Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 As one who has been criticizing Taylor since, literally, his first drive as the Bills' starter (sorry, Levi and Levi's dad), I will say this: Many QBs are successful due, in large part, to a solid defense. Tyrod has played better, and smarter, this season than he did in the previous two. And he's doing it with less talent around him. Tyrod's ability to protect the ball cannot be undervalued. His teammates seem to like him a lot. He's a very hard worker and is dedicated to his profession. However ... I am still not sold on him as the long-term solution to the Bills' QB needs. He's had a couple very good games against two very good teams. But his entire body of work cannot be ignored. Am I happy with what he's done so far this year? Abso friggin lutely. I am just not ready to say I believe in him and I can't see myself being there unless he plays like this for a solid 80% of this year's starts.
grb Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) Believe what you want but it's the facts. All too easy : Let's look at plus-twenty yard plays, shall we? Taylor has 11 in 99 attempts, so we can do the math for a percentage to compare with his peers : Taylor : .111 Brady : .123 Brees : .105 Rodgers : .094 Ryan : .089 Winston : .078 Prescott : .077 I'm sure this can be explained away because "stats are so misleading", right? http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2017&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH Edited October 6, 2017 by grb
BillsfanAZ Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Everyone focuses on the QB. Taylor makes some great throws and some bad ones but lets focus on the offense as a whole. When a QB has a good pocket and time to throw, his WR's have time to run their routes and the QB can go through his reads. The Pats should have lost against Tampa Bay if it wasnt for their kicker missing field goals. Brady was taking a lot of hits. The Bills WR's are mediocre at best so they get less balls than Clay and McCoy. Taylor's pass protection is inconsistent to the point that even when it holds up it seems he is waiting for it to break down. The Bills Oline needs to do a better job of opening holes for McCoy. The play calls have also been conservative in playing for field goals with the lead instead of touchdowns. So far this stragedy has worked but it will not work all the time. Taylor should be allowed to play for touchdowns while being smart with the ball.
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