The Frankish Reich Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 I don't know if this applies to Dareus, but I don't know how many people here are aware that many NFL players don't actually like playing football. It hurts - a lot. I'll never forget hearing an interview with Chargers D-lineman Burt Grossman on the Jim Rome show over two decades ago. In response to the question of how much he still loved the game (he was nearing the end of his very solid 6 year career, in which he had 43.5 sacks), he essentially said that he never liked playing in the NFL and only did it for the money. Rome then asked him if college was the last time he liked playing. He said he hated playing in college too (he went to Pitt and was drafted 8th overall in the first round). He closed by saying that the last time he liked playing football was in high school. He had stuck with it because of the money. Kris Jenkins' NYT piece from a few years back is quite revealing about the punishment DTs take: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/sports/football/kris-jenkinss-view-of-life-in-the-nfl-trenches.html . Consider all of this when thinking about Dareus, who is effectively set for life. The only financially stupid thing Dareus could do at this point is retire, because he'd forfeit millions of dollars. Even if he's unmotivated, he needs to stick it out to collect that cash. Again, I don't know if he hates playing football, but he might. We as fans are justified in not liking this, but this sort of situation is more common than you might think. It's why teams are terrified of guaranteed contracts. This ain't MLB w/regard to "love of the game." The Kris Jenkins article is great. Thanks for the link. I think you hit the nail on the head - fans can't stop criticizing guys like Dareus because we're so wedded to the cliches about giving 110% and leaving nothing in the locker room. From a purely rational economic perspective, Dareus will get the money whether he pushes himself to the limit and accepts additional pain and suffering (and possible long term physical consequences) or whether he just shows up and does the minimum. Call it lazy, call it rational, call it whatever you want.
Scott7975 Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Appearing in just 22 snaps, the fewest for any member of the Bills defense, Dareus did not record a solo tackle, did not record an assisted tackle, did not record a tackle of any sort in Buffalo’s big 23-17 win over the Falcons. Switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defense, the Bills (3-1) find themselves alone in first place in the AFC East. Without any productivity from “Mr. Big Stuff,” the Bills defense is currently the stingiest in the league, allowing 13.5 points per game, and the Bills rank third in interceptions (six), are eighth in sacks (11), and are 10th in total yards allowed per game (306.5). Dareus, the team’s highest-paid defensive player, has now logged a grand total of ONE assisted tackle, with no sacks and no quarterback hurries through the first quarter of the season. He is one of only three current Bills without a solo tackle along with Jerel Worthy, who just made his season debut in Atlanta (matching Dareus’ season total with one assisted tackle and managing a quarterback hit). Tanner Vallejo, Buffalo’s rookie linebacker, is the other Bill with one assisted tackle. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/10/2/16396586/buffalo-bills-curious-case-of-the-disappearing-marcell-dareus So could the Bills actually rid themselves of the Dareus contract? Some have speculated that Dareus is simply too expensive to trade. ESPN had this to say about it: Trading Dareus before this season would result in a cap savings of $9.75 million in 2017 -- Dareus' base salary -- but a $14.2 million dead-money charge in 2018 from the acceleration of his signing bonus proration. Given that the Bills could roll over the $9.75 million in 2017 savings into their 2018 cap, the dead money could be palatable. However, any team acquiring Dareus in a trade would be taking on risk by inheriting the 2017-21 seasons of his deal. In addition to Dareus' fully guaranteed $9.75 million salary in 2017, his new team would be on the hook for the fully guaranteed portion ($7.35 million) of his $9.925 million salary in 2018, as well as non-guaranteed salaries of $8.335 million (2019), $12.35 million (2020) and $12.4 million (2021). If any team was willing to take on that contract, the risk would cost the Bills in the trade compensation that team would receive. According to that breakdown, the Bills would save a little under $10 million this season but be on the hook for about $14 next season. In other words, the Bills would be out about $4.5 million which isn’t exactly an unreasonable amount. The new team would be on the hook for a shade under $20 million over the next two seasons before either cutting the cord or picking up about $33 million the next 3 seasons. While big numbers, they aren’t insurmountable. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/10/4/16406836/will-marcell-dareus-remain-with-buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-trust-the-process Edited October 5, 2017 by Scott7975
Magox Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/10/2/16396586/buffalo-bills-curious-case-of-the-disappearing-marcell-dareus https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/10/4/16406836/will-marcell-dareus-remain-with-buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-trust-the-process Interesting. It isn't completely outside the realm of possibility that some team could still believe in him and pay that salary. It's doubtful but not out of the question. If so, maybe you could get anywhere from a 3rd to a 5th for him.
Gunsgoodtime Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 He's great at ruining Ferraris. We don't know that yet. Jugaurs definitely
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 ....does anybody realistically think it would make a rat's azz bit of difference if Thornton started over Fat Albert II?.....guilt trip?...NOT.....longer paid vacation of doing nothing?....YUP.....
Gunsgoodtime Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 Interesting. It isn't completely outside the realm of possibility that some team could still believe in him and pay that salary. It's doubtful but not out of the question. If so, maybe you could get anywhere from a 3rd to a 5th for him. You meant to say we could give a 3rd or 5th for someone to take him and his massive contract right? That makes much more sense
BringBackOrton Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 The Kris Jenkins article is great. Thanks for the link. I think you hit the nail on the head - fans can't stop criticizing guys like Dareus because we're so wedded to the cliches about giving 110% and leaving nothing in the locker room. From a purely rational economic perspective, Dareus will get the money whether he pushes himself to the limit and accepts additional pain and suffering (and possible long term physical consequences) or whether he just shows up and does the minimum. Call it lazy, call it rational, call it whatever you want. I call it unethical to ink a contract for services and then screw the payer of said contract by not honoring it.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 ....does anybody realistically think it would make a rat's azz bit of difference if Thornton started over Fat Albert II?.....guilt trip?...NOT.....longer paid vacation of doing nothing?....YUP..... when are you going to get off his back? your name calling of the kid is beyond getting old. I used to think you were pretty cool but your obsession with him has me questioning it now. no, I'm really not trying to defend him, just an observation by the numerous posts you have against him. does it change anything? will he be gone any sooner? give it a rest man.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) I call it unethical to ink a contract for services and then screw the payer of said contract by not honoring it. ...sure is.... a contract is a mutually accepted agreement for services to be performed IF structured properly.....but the finite language that probably exists in sports contracts is probably hugely gray......unable to perform "duties" means what and determined by whom?....our docs say you can whereas your docs say no way...who wins?.....that is the blatant fallacy of guaranteed contracts, be it the horror or WHORE......and the Fat Alberts of the world are money whores IMO....."paging Mr Dareus, pick up the lobby phone"...... Edited October 5, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 ...sure is.... a contract is a mutually accepted agreement for services to be performed IF structured properly.....but the finite language that probably exists in sports contracts is probably hugely gray......unable to perform "duties" means what and determined by whom?....our docs say you can whereas your docs say no way...who wins?.....that is the blatant fallacy of guaranteed contracts, be it the horror or WHORE......and the Fat Alberts of the world are money whores IMO....."paging Mr Dareus, pick up the lobby phone"...... I bet you wish you had his contract. thank whaley and company for printing it out for him. pretty deep when one can be so obsessed with a football player and his money, deep.
Scott7975 Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) You all are nuts if you think Dareus can't still wreck sh** on the field. I don't know where people get this Dareus is lazy crap from. He's a huge asset on defense. He just needs to show professionalism and maturity when away from the field. He hasn't been an asset on the field at all this year. Our defense has been dominant without him. Nor has he been very effective this year. He has been completely invisible. Edited October 5, 2017 by Scott7975
BurpleBull Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 You all are nuts if you think Dareus can't still wreck sh** on the field. I don't know where people get this "Dareus is lazy" crap from. He's very effective and is a huge asset on defense. He just needs to show professionalism and maturity when away from the field. He hasn't been an asset on the field at all this year. Our defense has been dominant without him. What? He hasn't been healthy. The defense becomes that much more of a problem with him. You don't let him go just like that. The sack totals will only increase with a healthy Dareus in the lineup. You guys turn on talented players who run into a little trouble in a heartbeat even when they are contributors much like you'll lose faith in the team entirely after a loss until the next win.
Scott7975 Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 You all are nuts if you think Dareus can't still wreck sh** on the field. I don't know where people get this "Dareus is lazy" crap from. He's very effective and is a huge asset on defense. He just needs to show professionalism and maturity when away from the field. What? He hasn't been healthy. The defense becomes that much more of a problem with him. You don't let him go just like that. The sack totals will only increase with a healthy Dareus in the lineup. You guys turn on talented players who run into a little trouble in a heartbeat even when they are contributors much like you'll lose faith in the team entirely after a loss until the next win. He had a sore ankle in week two. Big deal. We are on to week 5 and the D hasn't missed a beat without him. I turn on high dollar players that don't perform. Yes getting suspended is part of it. Next suspension is 10 games minimum for him. Dareus has been a problem for every coaching staff this team has had. Isnt worth the cap space when you can spend the money on multiple players that play hard.
BringBackOrton Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 ...sure is.... a contract is a mutually accepted agreement for services to be performed IF structured properly.....but the finite language that probably exists in sports contracts is probably hugely gray......unable to perform "duties" means what and determined by whom?....our docs say you can whereas your docs say no way...who wins?.....that is the blatant fallacy of guaranteed contracts, be it the horror or WHORE......and the Fat Alberts of the world are money whores IMO....."paging Mr Dareus, pick up the lobby phone"...... Luckily, this doesn't appear to be a gray area. It's just Dareus not caring.
BurpleBull Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) He had a sore ankle in week two. Big deal. We are on to week 5 and the D hasn't missed a beat without him. I turn on high dollar players that don't perform. Yes getting suspended is part of it. Next suspension is 10 games minimum for him. Dareus has been a problem for every coaching staff this team has had. Isnt worth the cap space when you can spend the money on multiple players that play hard. Of course a sore ankle is no big deal to you because you're not standing on it. The defense hasn't missed a beat without him because he doesn't make the defense by himself. Did you even call for this great start at the beginning of the season? Did you even call the McDermott hiring like I did? If no, I don't think you have any room to be so dismissive of what Dareus has to offer to this team. I think the coaching staff understands the talent he is better than you do. Edited October 5, 2017 by BurpleBull
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 He had a sore ankle in week two. Big deal. We are on to week 5 and the D hasn't missed a beat without him. I turn on high dollar players that don't perform. Yes getting suspended is part of it. Next suspension is 10 games minimum for him. Dareus has been a problem for every coaching staff this team has had. Isnt worth the cap space when you can spend the money on multiple players that play hard. at least you're respectful with your views.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 when are you going to get off his back? your name calling of the kid is beyond getting old. I used to think you were pretty cool but your obsession with him has me questioning it now. no, I'm really not trying to defend him, just an observation by the numerous posts you have against him. does it change anything? will he be gone any sooner? give it a rest man. ...I'm not giving anything a rest.....IGNORE is a beautiful thing and I suggest you use it with me...no harm no foul here.....you emphasize with him and I despise him period........adios......
Scott7975 Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 Of course a sore ankle is no big deal to you because you're not standing on it. The defense hasn't missed a beat without him because he doesn't make the defense by himself. Did you even call for this great start at the beginning of the season? Did you even call the McDermott hiring like I did? If no, I don't think you have any room to be so dismissive of what Dareus has to offer to this team. I think the coaching staff understands the talent he is better than you do. Yup defense didn't miss a beat without him so why pay him 100 million dollars? No but I did feel it would be far better than Rex Ryan. What does that have to do with Dareus... needless to say the great start has pretty much happened without him so again why tie up the cap resources? Call the McD hiring? What does that have to do with Dareus. I have plenty of room to be dismissive of a guy eating up cap space that has no ambition to play football. I think they do to and all signs point to him not being on the team next season.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 But he wasnt playing like a dud UNTIL he got the top ranked money. Agreed
Scott7975 Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 at least you're respectful with your views. I try to be. I don't hate him or anything. I just don't think he is worth all that he eats up in cap space for the little value he actually provides.
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