dezertbill Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 Skipped 22 pages to say - you guys need to trust the process. We got a good player in Tre White, and added 2 picks. We're playing Playoff Caliber football I am also skipping 22 pages to say this. I would take Matt Stafford over TT, but Stafford wasn't available for us to take. Neither was Cam Newton or Matt Ryan. My point is it's not about who is better, it's about how the draft would have shaken out to get him. In essence, the OP is proposing: Bills Trade: Tyrod Taylor TreDavious White KC's 1st round pick in 2018 KC's 3rd round pick in 2018 for Deshaun Watson OP feels this trade would be advantage Buffalo. I disagree. Granted, you know by now what you are getting with TT, who has averaged 18 TD's and 6 INT's over 2 1/2 seasons. On the flip side, you know what you are getting with TT, whose Bills team has scored 20 or more in 13 straight home games, doesn't have an INT or fumble problem, and is elusive and tough to sack which extends plays. He is also only 28. Watson looks good now. But so did Robert Griffin. So did Matt Cassel. I can't say 7 games is a true indicator of a career. With that being said, I would trade Watson for Taylor straight up due to a higher ceiling. He does look good and with the right coaching one would think he's arrow is pointing up. But when you add Tre White, who looks to be a Pro-Bowler for a decade in the making, the Chiefs 1st and 3rd round picks in 18 (coupled with the faith in Beane and Co. to find talent at those positions as they did last draft), I would have to say no thanks. I trust the process.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 Yes Watson is. And every GM who needed a QB and passed on him has to think about this- Watson played Alabama twice in the National Championship game. Nick Saban is a great college coach with the best talent. The fact Watson played as well as he did in the second game was all you needed to know. And Bill OBrien isnt the most impressive head coach. It is what it is. It does give me hope that the QB college game is improving.
BringBackOrton Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) I am also skipping 22 pages to say this. I would take Matt Stafford over TT, but Stafford wasn't available for us to take. Neither was Cam Newton or Matt Ryan. My point is it's not about who is better, it's about how the draft would have shaken out to get him. In essence, the OP is proposing: Bills Trade: Tyrod Taylor TreDavious White KC's 1st round pick in 2018 KC's 3rd round pick in 2018 for Deshaun Watson OP feels this trade would be advantage Buffalo. I disagree. Granted, you know by now what you are getting with TT, who has averaged 18 TD's and 6 INT's over 2 1/2 seasons. On the flip side, you know what you are getting with TT, whose Bills team has scored 20 or more in 13 straight home games, doesn't have an INT or fumble problem, and is elusive and tough to sack which extends plays. He is also only 28. Watson looks good now. But so did Robert Griffin. So did Matt Cassel. I can't say 7 games is a true indicator of a career. With that being said, I would trade Watson for Taylor straight up due to a higher ceiling. He does look good and with the right coaching one would think he's arrow is pointing up. But when you add Tre White, who looks to be a Pro-Bowler for a decade in the making, the Chiefs 1st and 3rd round picks in 18 (coupled with the faith in Beane and Co. to find talent at those positions as they did last draft), I would have to say no thanks. I trust the process. Watson has eclipsed TT's season averages in the first 7 games in his career. 7 games isnt an indicator for a career but White is a Pro Bowler for a decade? How many games has he played? Edited October 31, 2017 by jmc12290
8-8 Forever? Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) we're 5-2 . Houston is what, 3-4. That's what I look at. I'm bought in to "the process". They'll miss on some talent. But hey, they took Gilmore's Pats contract and 100% remade the entire secondary with one guys contract amount and made is better that what it was plus a top three pick to boot. McBeanes are doing just fine thank you. They'll draft another QB next year and all will be well. trust the process. they are legitimately building a culture and it looks 7 games in that they've already done it. forcing turnovers all over the place and mass celebrating when the 4th wideout makes a catch. I'm on board. Didn't think it could be done in today's NFL, but you can rip out all the bitchy, big contract bad eggs and then still win as a team of scrappy little nobodys. gotta love it. didn't think it was possible. we'll see what happens when the division games crank up, but wow pretty interesting so far Edited October 31, 2017 by 8-8 Forever?
Wayne Arnold Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 Yes Watson is. And every GM who needed a QB and passed on him has to think about this- Watson played Alabama twice in the National Championship game. Nick Saban is a great college coach with the best talent. The fact Watson played as well as he did in the second game was all you needed to know. And Bill OBrien isnt the most impressive head coach. It is what it is. It does give me hope that the QB college game is improving. Yep, this is now two quarterbacks in back-to-back seasons (Dak Prescott being the other one) who many considered to be a bad fit for the NFL but are now killing it at the highest level. Who's next? Baker Mayfield?
1billsfan Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 Yes Watson is. And every GM who needed a QB and passed on him has to think about this- Watson played Alabama twice in the National Championship game. Nick Saban is a great college coach with the best talent. The fact Watson played as well as he did in the second game was all you needed to know. And Bill OBrien isnt the most impressive head coach. It is what it is. It does give me hope that the QB college game is improving. I have to think that many passed on Watson because he has that slender lower body build. With RGIII and Bridgewater as recent examples of franchise QBs with slender builds which led to career ending injury, it had to be big reason why he was passed up by all those teams, including the Bills. If I were the Texans, I'd stop with having Watson play the role of "running QB". Won't be as crazy productive, but he will have a much longer career.
Alphadawg7 Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 They were only IN the game because Watson scores lots of points. Same reason why they were in the Pats game and KC game. They were only playing from behind and having to keep throwing because Watson turnovers too...so you can spin it all you want, but turnovers have hurt them and hence the losing record. So to sit back and say TD's matter more than the turnovers is not very accurate.
John from Riverside Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 Watson has eclipsed TT's season averages in the first 7 games in his career. 7 games isnt an indicator for a career but White is a Pro Bowler for a decade? How many games has he played? Whats with the hyperbowl trying to prove your point.....dont you realize that it just hurts your arguement? Did ANYONE say that White was a pro bowler for a decade? Anyone? Stop it Yep, this is now two quarterbacks in back-to-back seasons (Dak Prescott being the other one) who many considered to be a bad fit for the NFL but are now killing it at the highest level. Who's next? Baker Mayfield? For the record....I think we should def take a qb with one of our 2018 picks
Alphadawg7 Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 His deep ball accuracy is among the best in the league based on thr next gen stats. And if you check the week 8 thread you will see I did say I am very happy to give the 4th TD 99% to Hopkins. Some people are getting very salty and doubling down on their view from February and March. That's fine. And I will say it again.... I'd put every penny I own on him not being RGIII or Vince Young. There is no way he is. Kaepernick is a fairer argument but I don't think there is any fluke to what he is doing. Nor apparently do the Seattle defenders. GunnerBill...I dont see anyone, including myself, saying he will be the next VY, RG3, Kap, etc. All anyone has said is that its way too early to come to any absolute conclusion about him, Tre White, or any rookie. The NFL roads are littered with the bodies of young talent that fizzled, so some of us remain cautiously optimistic about him right now. 1. Turnovers and deep ball accuracy were a concern coming into the league. You say his metrics are strong this year on the deep ball, but hes also throwing to Elite talent who have made huge plays downfield on bad throws, that helps your downfield accuracy numbers quite a bit considering QB's aren't making high volume amount of throws downfield. So what we need to see from him is sustained success in that area, not just a handful of games where hes made some good throws and been bailed out on some coin flip throws his WR's made elite plays to complete. 2. Back to turnovers...again, this was a concern going into the draft and its been an issue so far as a pro. In fact, given all his offensive production, they still have a losing record mostly because he turns the ball over too much. And like I said before, he is a ROOKIE, so there is no immediate concern for alarm here as most young QB's struggle early with INT's. So plenty of time for him to cut those down, but what I said is his long term success in the NFL will be impacted by his ability to cut those down, and until he does the jury is still out on whether he will or wont. You say people are doubling down on the pre draft stuff, but what I see more of is you doubling down on your insistence to be right about him and demanding that he is for sure the next great QB. Most of the rest of us like what we see, but we prefer to see sustained success and improvements on some key areas like turnovers before we crown him king. I sure as hell enjoy watching him play like I did in college, and I think the kid is a world class person too, so I am rooting for him to succeed as a fan of football for sure. I am just not ready to declare he's the next great QB after less than half a season where turnovers are still an issue.
Scott7975 Posted October 31, 2017 Posted October 31, 2017 This is just his first season. Half way through. He could do better in the turnover dept as he gets experience. He could also totally flop next year. So far he looks good for a rookie.
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 He has also been pressured on 43% of his dropbacks. By far the highest number in the league. And he is still on pace to not just break the rookie season TD record for QBs.... but to smash right through it. 2. Back to turnovers...again, this was a concern going into the draft and its been an issue so far as a pro. In fact, given all his offensive production, they still have a losing record mostly because he turns the ball over too much. No it really isn't. The main reason they have a losing record is that they are 29th in scoring defense. He has given his team the lead on the road inside 3 minutes against arguably the two best teams of the last 5 years - New England and Seattle and his defense has blown it both times. Their other loss in a game Watson started he threw 5 TDs and 0 INTs. To say they have a losing record "mostly because" of Watson's interceptions is absolutely ludicrous at this point.
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Whats with the hyperbowl trying to prove your point.....dont you realize that it just hurts your arguement? Did ANYONE say that White was a pro bowler for a decade? Anyone? Stop it For the record....I think we should def take a qb with one of our 2018 picks Yes, the person I responded to did John. Start following the conversation please. They were only playing from behind and having to keep throwing because Watson turnovers too...so you can spin it all you want, but turnovers have hurt them and hence the losing record. So to sit back and say TD's matter more than the turnovers is not very accurate. They have the third worst defense in the NFL. So no. Edited November 1, 2017 by jmc12290
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 GunnerBill...I dont see anyone, including myself, saying he will be the next VY, RG3, Kap, etc. In which case which ROTY QBs who soon lost their jobs and dropped out of the league were you referring to not one page back in this thread? Because aside from RGIII and Vince Young the only QBs to win OROTY since Dennis Shaw of the Bills in 1970 are: Big Ben; Matt Ryan; Sam Bradford; Cam Newton; and Dak Prescott All of whom as far as I am aware are still starting Quarterbacks in the NFL. Two of them are top 6 QBs in this league.
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 In which case which ROTY QBs who soon lost their jobs and dropped out of the league were you referring to not one page back in this thread? Because aside from RGIII and Vince Young the only QBs to win OROTY since Dennis Shaw of the Bills in 1970 are: Big Ben; Matt Ryan; Sam Bradford; Cam Newton; and Dak Prescott All of whom as far as I am aware are still starting Quarterbacks in the NFL. Two of them are top 6 QBs in this league. Don't let him off the mat!
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 You say people are doubling down on the pre draft stuff, but what I see more of is you doubling down on your insistence to be right about him and demanding that he is for sure the next great QB. Let me be clear I never did that. I had a mid 1st round grade on him but thought he was clearly the best Quarterback in the class and on par with other Quarterbacks who went in the top 10 in previous years (Goff and Wentz particularly). If I am being totally honest he has played better than I expected him to thus far. And I was probably his biggest, though not only, advocate on this board.
Scott7975 Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 Ok, I admit it. We whiffed on this one. Did we? Maybe we did. He is having himself a really good year. That's all it is at this point though. A really good year. RG3 had a really good year. Colin Kaepernick had a really good year. Nick Foles had a really good year. Matt Cassel had a really good year. Schaub had a really good year. I cant tell you how many times I have heard we missed on a QB only for that QB to fizzle out a year or two later. Deshawn Watson is the next great Could be. Could also be the next guy to have a great season and go on to bust status.
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