mannc Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Almost as underrated as points-off-turnover. Such a critical stat, and you never really hear/read many people pressing it. Are points-off-turnovers worth more than other points? Please explain.
Gugny Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 But do you credit Taylor for being a starting quarterback? You're on record as saying he's worse than +36 other qbs currently in the league. It would be nice to get this issue successfully resolved, rather than have to revisit it again after Atlanta....... Oh, shut up. I gave him credit where it's due. He's still not even close to showing that he could be a legitimate starter in this league. He had a good game and I said he had a good game. Leave it at that and get off my jock. Not trying to pick on you, but what do you think about Cam Newton as an elite QB right now? Still elite and just injured or is there a bigger problem going on? I don't see this as picking on me, no worries! I think something is wrong with Cam. Some of the horrible passes he's throwing are simply inexplicable. I still do consider him (overall) an elite QB; but right now, he just looks like absolute crap.
Magox Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 I think the key to this offense aside from getting the ground game going is being able to provide TT enough blocking up front and time to throw the ball for those 20-30 yard passes. Defenses are keying in on all the short stuff and our offensive line typically hasn't been good enough to consistently give TT enough time to throw the ball for passes a little further down the field. The play action, opening up down the field and throwing on first downs I believe is something we will need to do more.
JM2009 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Oh, shut up. I gave him credit where it's due. He's still not even close to showing that he could be a legitimate starter in this league. He had a good game and I said he had a good game. Leave it at that and get off my jock. I don't see this as picking on me, no worries! I think something is wrong with Cam. Some of the horrible passes he's throwing are simply inexplicable. I still do consider him (overall) an elite QB; but right now, he just looks like absolute crap. Wrong on both counts.
Gugny Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Wrong on both counts. They're opinions, Einstein.
JM2009 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 But do you credit Taylor for being a starting quarterback? You're on record as saying he's worse than +36 other qbs currently in the league. It would be nice to get this issue successfully resolved, rather than have to revisit it again after Atlanta....... Most teams would lose in Atlanta. But that won't stop certain posters coming back next week.
IDBillzFan Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Are points-off-turnovers worth more than other points? Please explain. They're worth more than the points the other team woulda/coulda scored before you flipped the table, yes.
mannc Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) They're worth more than the points the other team woulda/coulda scored before you flipped the table, yes. So it's the turnovers that are what really matters, right? If the Bills score a TD on their opening drive, then get an interception on the opponent's first series, but have to punt, are they worse off than if they punt on their first series, but then get the interception and score a TD on the series immediately following the interception? That's what you're saying, right? Seems to me they're up 7 points either way. Edited September 26, 2017 by mannc
Gugny Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 So it's the turnovers that are what really matters, right? If the Bills score a TD on their opening drive, then get an interception on the opponent's first series, but have to punt, are they worse off than if they punt on their first series, but then get the interception and score a TD on the series immediately following the interception? That's what you're saying, right? Seems to me they're up 7 points either way. Depending on where the turnover takes place, you're taking points away from the opposing team AND adding points of your own. If it's 1st and goal at the one inch line and the Bills recover a fumble and return it for a TD, the game goes from 7-0 them to 7-0 us. That's a 14 point shift.
John from Riverside Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 they do ..... when you can't run the ball. No? I would say that they dont......because we scored points and we won. I would say that the timing of the good throws had a bunch to do with it. Nahhh! The Bills have been shut down before and it will happen again. When it does TT needs to be even better than his last passing game. I agree with this I want to see consistancy......and improvement
mannc Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Depending on where the turnover takes place, you're taking points away from the opposing team AND adding points of your own. If it's 1st and goal at the one inch line and the Bills recover a fumble and return it for a TD, the game goes from 7-0 them to 7-0 us. That's a 14 point shift. No one said turnovers aren't important. You did not address my question or my hypothetical: Why are points off turnovers more important than other points a team scores? (I'll give you a hint: They're not.)
Gugny Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 No one said turnovers aren't important. You did not address my question or my hypothetical: Why are points off turnovers more important than other points a team scores? (I'll give you a hint: They're not.) There's certainly no need to be snarky. I wasn't talking about importance. I THINK what LA Billz was trying to say (he can confirm) is that sometimes, the turnover and ensuing points shift the game more than just the points scored by the team who got the turnover.
Magox Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) No one said turnovers aren't important. You did not address my question or my hypothetical: Why are points off turnovers more important than other points a team scores? (I'll give you a hint: They're not.) Of course technically they are the exact same, everybody recognizes that. The reason why this is a statistic that is often referenced is because it has various potential implications. Such as: A) Maybe a team is driving down the field and is on our side of the field or in scoring position and we get a turnover and then score. That would be potentially anywhere from a 6 to a 16 point swing because of that turnover that led to points. B) Maybe we get the turnover at midfield or better yet on their side of the field. Which gives us good field position and it led to points. C) Momentum shift, you not only stop the opposing team but you get the ball back without having to field it 45 yards down the field after a punt and you yield points because of it. So while you are technically correct, which I believe is obvious enough to say that goes without saying. It is an important stat, imo. Edited September 26, 2017 by Magox
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 I would say that they dont......because we scored points and we won. I would say that the timing of the good throws had a bunch to do with it. I agree with this I want to see consistancy......and improvement Exactly. My TT approval meter is moving upwards. Lets hope it continues. There's certainly no need to be snarky. I wasn't talking about importance. I THINK what LA Billz was trying to say (he can confirm) is that sometimes, the turnover and ensuing points shift the game more than just the points scored by the team who got the turnover. what he said .. Points is points but if you can steal 3 to 7 points from them - That is always a good thing. To add to what Magox Getting a TO can "save you 40 to 80 yards" depending on the spot and what yards the punt would have covered. Much easier to go 40 yards and score than 98 yards and score.
Scott7975 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) Oh, shut up. I gave him credit where it's due. He's still not even close to showing that he could be a legitimate starter in this league. He had a good game and I said he had a good game. Leave it at that and get off my jock. I don't see this as picking on me, no worries! I think something is wrong with Cam. Some of the horrible passes he's throwing are simply inexplicable. I still do consider him (overall) an elite QB; but right now, he just looks like absolute crap. He has shown he is a legitimate starter in this league. He is in his third year starting and unless you want to point out 32 other better QBs then stop saying he is not a legitimate starter. Just because there are 5 to 10 elite guys in the league doesn't make the rest of the QBs not legitimate. Same crappy passing he had last year before injury. Same crappy passing he had against the Bills when he played against EJ. Cam is decent. I would totally take him and let him run all over the place. Elite QB? No, no he isn't. Edited September 26, 2017 by Scott7975
JM2009 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 They're opinions, Einstein. You're stating it as a fact.
HT02 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Now lets see him do this on the road; he's not been good there.
JM2009 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Now lets see him do this on the road; he's not been good there. Except for the elite ones, how many QBs are good on the road on a consistent basis? I always say win at home and win on the road any way you can. Doesn't have to be pretty on the road.
transplantbillsfan Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Yes, he did have an effective passing game. He tore up their secondary and had 400 yards passing.... oh wait sorry I was daydreaming. TT had his near typical 25 passing attempts and he had his second best completion % for a game too. Funny stuff sound familiar? yards yards yards yards yards blah blah blah blah blah Geez. Do people watch the games? How often last year did you folks harp on the Ravens game as the gameplan was to "make Taylor be a QB." Well, sounds like the Broncos had a similar gameplan. And it failed. Give Taylor some props for once, dude. My God.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 yards yards yards yards yards blah blah blah blah blah Geez. Do people watch the games? How often last year did you folks harp on the Ravens game as the gameplan was to "make Taylor be a QB." Well, sounds like the Broncos had a similar gameplan. And it failed. Give Taylor some props for once, dude. My God. are you arguing to argue? yards are important. 100 Passing yards is the same as 100 Rushing yards. The issue at hand is to do BOTH well so that they can be relied on. Their game plan was to stop the run. They succeeded. What they failed at was Some dumb penalties (2 more than the Bills) and 2 INTs that should have been thrown OOB and and the bad fake punt. You are supposed to make it harder for the opponents not yourself.
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