BillsFan4 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Inequality is the bogeyman now? I don't believe in the bogeyman. lol Inequality =/ inequity If you're talking specifically about equality under the law, yes that's a vital issue in a free society, but we already have equality under the law. I know. But that doesn't mean they automatically are given the same treatment. It has gotten much better than where we were just over 50 years ago when segregation was still legal, but we still have a long way to go. This schit has gotten out of hand and the new focus of inequality has taken us away from the original intent of the "kneel down". Let's just call a spade a spade and make every Sunday "Michael Brown Day". Huh? Are you mad that the protest has evolved from being mainly about police shootings? Be mad at Trump. Kneeling had more/less died out around the NFL until he opened his big mouth and purposely said some very inflammatory comments. He has to know this is exactly what would happen. Too bad he wasn't willing to willfully condemn the white supremacists and nazi sympathizers in Charlottesville in the same way. It took him days of being shamed into it to condemn them and then he pretty much immediately walked back his remarks condemning them.
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 I know. But that doesn't mean they automatically are given the same treatment. It has gotten much better than where we were just over 50 years ago when segregation was still legal, but we still have a long way to go. But that's just it: they are given the same treatment under the law. They have equal access, and a system which does not discriminate against them because of their race. But here's the rub: equal access does not mean equality. Equality is unachievable, because every individual has different starting points. A person who is born to a single mother, in poverty starts the race ahead of an orphan who is born addicted to crack. Both start off worse than someone born into a two parent working class family with parents who don't have a good handle on household budgets and savings; who starts off worse than a child from an upper class family who puts a major emphasis on the importance of good grades and strong work ethic. All of them start off in a worse place than Malia Obama. As it stands today, black Americans are more likely to start the race further behind because of the legacy of their prior inequality under the law, and because of cultural degradation in their communities brought on by the perverse incentives offered by the welfare state; but that's not the fault of current racism.
boyst Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Sunday ticket and NFL Network just called... They said to tell you: Bye Felicia. hipster, what is that reference from?
BillsFan4 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 But that's just it: they are given the same treatment under the law. They have equal access, and a system which does not discriminate against them because of their race. But here's the rub: equal access does not mean equality. Equality is unachievable, because every individual has different starting points. A person who is born to a single mother, in poverty starts the race ahead of an orphan who is born addicted to crack. Both start off worse than someone born into a two parent working class family with parents who don't have a good handle on household budgets and savings; who starts off worse than a child from an upper class family who puts a major emphasis on the importance of good grades and strong work ethic. All of them start off in a worse place than Malia Obama. As it stands today, black Americans are more likely to start the race further behind because of the legacy of their prior inequality under the law, and because of cultural degradation in their communities brought on by the perverse incentives offered by the welfare state; but that's not the fault of current racism. Many seem to think that system does still discriminate against people based on their race, though. That's a large part of what some of these players are protesting. I am really pretty tired out on that whole debate though, so I'll just leave it there. I do agree with much of what you're saying about equality though.
boyst Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Many seem to think that system does still discriminate against people based on their race, though. That's a large part of what some of these players are protesting. I am really pretty tired out on that whole debate though, so I'll just leave it there. I do agree with much of what you're saying about equality though. many think the earth is flat, there is a man in the sky who created us, angels exist, 9/11 was an inside job... People are stupid and will believe stupid things if it makes them sleep better at night.
grinreaper Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 I don't believe in the bogeyman. lol I know. But that doesn't mean they automatically are given the same treatment. It has gotten much better than where we were just over 50 years ago when segregation was still legal, but we still have a long way to go. Huh? Are you mad that the protest has evolved from being mainly about police shootings? Be mad at Trump. Kneeling had more/less died out around the NFL until he opened his big mouth and purposely said some very inflammatory comments. He has to know this is exactly what would happen. Too bad he wasn't willing to willfully condemn the white supremacists and nazi sympathizers in Charlottesville in the same way. It took him days of being shamed into it to condemn them and then he pretty much immediately walked back his remarks condemning them. If I remember correctly Thursday Night Football is on Thursday, you know, the day before Trump's speech in Atlanta. many think the earth is flat, there is a man in the sky who created us, angels exist, 9/11 was an inside job... People are stupid and will believe stupid things if it makes them sleep better at night. Obviously you haven't spent a night with Hannah.
boyst Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 If I remember correctly Thursday Night Football is on Thursday, you know, the day before Trump's speech in Atlanta. Obviously you haven't spent a night with Hannah. I have with one, yes.
BillsFan4 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) If I remember correctly Thursday Night Football is on Thursday, you know, the day before Trump's speech in Atlanta. Obviously you haven't spent a night with Hannah. I didn't say it was gone completely, just that it was more or less dying out. One player kneeled during that game, and one raised their fist. So, 2 players total. http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/249755/nfl-players-who-protested-during-the-national-anthem-in-week-3 (bottom of the page) Edited September 26, 2017 by BillsFan4
keepthefaith Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 I don't believe in the bogeyman. lol I know. But that doesn't mean they automatically are given the same treatment. It has gotten much better than where we were just over 50 years ago when segregation was still legal, but we still have a long way to go. Huh? Are you mad that the protest has evolved from being mainly about police shootings? Be mad at Trump. Kneeling had more/less died out around the NFL until he opened his big mouth and purposely said some very inflammatory comments. He has to know this is exactly what would happen. Too bad he wasn't willing to willfully condemn the white supremacists and nazi sympathizers in Charlottesville in the same way. It took him days of being shamed into it to condemn them and then he pretty much immediately walked back his remarks condemning them. Yes Trump poured gas on the remnants of the fire and like so many other petty things he shouldn't even weigh in on it. However if he's gonna weigh in, why not simply invite a group of people who are in the mood to kneel to the white house and try to better understand their motivation? This whole thing is counter productive. The protests and many of the reactions to it. What's next might be a team winning an ESPY award for the most stylistic protest. Right now Dallas looks like they're headed for at least a nomination.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 hipster, what is that reference from? The movie "Friday"... You were 13 and I was 27 years old.
boyst Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 The movie "Friday"... You were 13 and I was 27 years old.I was 26 and in law school after 3 years of residency in med school. Duh
BillsFan4 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) Yes Trump poured gas on the remnants of the fire and like so many other petty things he shouldn't even weigh in on it. However if he's gonna weigh in, why not simply invite a group of people who are in the mood to kneel to the white house and try to better understand their motivation? This whole thing is counter productive. The protests and many of the reactions to it. What's next might be a team winning an ESPY award for the most stylistic protest. Right now Dallas looks like they're headed for at least a nomination. I agree. I like the way Obama handled things much better. He invited 2 heads from the BLM movement to the White House to meet with a range of law enforcement officials and community leaders to learn more about their movement and so both sides could learn more about the different challenges each side was facing, and try to begin to discuss solutions. Thats not Trump's style though. He'd rather pour gas on the dying embers and reignite the fire. I don't think he gives a rat's arse about what these players are protesting either. This whole thing has definitely become counter productive though. IMO The players need to pick s new way to protest because kneeling during the anthem gives people a built in excuse to get angry and not listen. But even when Thr Browns decided not to kneel and instead show a video before (or was it after?) the anthem, a lot of the same people still got mad, so... Having an honest and civil discussion where both sides were actually truly open to what the other was saying would be a much better approach/method, but I don't see that happening. Edited September 26, 2017 by BillsFan4
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) I agree. I like the way Obama handled things much better. He invited 2 heads from the BLM movement to the White House to meet with a range of law enforcement officials and community leaders to learn more about their movement and so both sides could learn more about the different challenges each side was facing, and try to begin to discuss solutions. Thats not Trump's style though. He'd rather pour gas on the dying embers and reignite the fire. This whole thing has definitely become counter productive though. IMO The players need to pick s new way to protest because kneeling during the anthem gives people a built in excuse to get angry and not listen. But even when Thr Browns decided not to kneel and instead show a video before (or was it after?) the anthem, a lot of the same people still got mad, so... Having an honest and civil discussion where both sides were actually truly open to what the other was saying would be a much better approach/method, but I don't see that happening. President Obama having Black Lives Matter leaders to the White House would be the rough equivalent of President Trump inviting Richard Spencer. There is nothing to like about the former President extending that invitation. Edited September 26, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 I was 26 and in law school after 3 years of residency in med school. Duh No. You were 13 & were about a decade away from doing time with a big black guy named Renee. Law school may have helped though.
boyst Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 No. You were 13 & were about a decade away from doing time with a big black guy named Renee. Law school may have helped though.lol cute. But his name was Dwan.
grinreaper Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 I agree. I like the way Obama handled things much better. He invited 2 heads from the BLM movement to the White House to meet with a range of law enforcement officials and community leaders to learn more about their movement and so both sides could learn more about the different challenges each side was facing, and try to begin to discuss solutions. Thats not Trump's style though. He'd rather pour gas on the dying embers and reignite the fire. I don't think he gives a rat's arse about what these players are protesting either. This whole thing has definitely become counter productive though. IMO The players need to pick s new way to protest because kneeling during the anthem gives people a built in excuse to get angry and not listen. But even when Thr Browns decided not to kneel and instead show a video before (or was it after?) the anthem, a lot of the same people still got mad, so... Having an honest and civil discussion where both sides were actually truly open to what the other was saying would be a much better approach/method, but I don't see that happening. He didn't need to invite them, they had already set up residence there. Furthermore, Obama was the most divisive president in my lifetime. Just look at his actions during the government shutdown in which he vowed to make citizens pay as deep of a price as possible. lol cute. But his name was Dwan. Uh, I think you misunderstood him. He was actually saying "which hole dwan it in"?
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 lol cute. But his name was Dwan. Ha!
boyst Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 Ha! he played football for four years at West Virginia was all conference as well
BillsFan4 Posted September 26, 2017 Posted September 26, 2017 President Obama having Black Lives Matter leaders to the White House would be the rough equivalent of President Trump inviting Richard Spencer. There is nothing to like about the former President extending that invitation. I don't see it that way at all. I think that's a false moral equivalence. White supremacy is not = to BLM. The way I see it - A leader of white supremacists (and nazi sympathizer) who identifies with what that group represents (including that the white race is superior to minorities, that they don't deserve all the same rights whites do, that we need a "peaceful ethnic cleansing" & that wants to create an all white homeland (to name just a few things)) is not equivalent to someone who believes that black lives matter as much as white lives do, openly welcomes those of different races into their group and thinks that everyone should be treated equal. I do not agree with everything BLM says or condone every action they take but their guiding principles are much different than those of a hate group like the white supremacists. He didn't need to invite them, they had already set up residence there. Furthermore, Obama was the most divisive president in my lifetime. Just look at his actions during the government shutdown in which he vowed to make citizens pay as deep of a price as possible. Uh, I think you misunderstood him. He was actually saying "which hole dwan it in"? Not exactly sure what you mean by BLM set up residence in the White House, but if you mean Obama then I totally disagree. Also, I had no idea what you talking about when you said he "vowed to make citizens pay as deep a price as possible". So I looked it up. It took me a while to find anything. The only thing I really came across was something on Brietbart (the poster child of fake news) and a couple similar sites, that they called "shutdown theatre". They referrred to the 2013 govt shutdown and then proceeded to twist words and distort the truth. I'm not even going to bother trying to argue against it if that's what your referring to. I'll just say that I don't agree and I don't really see how congress failing to pass legislation to keep non essential government functions running, mainly because republicans attached a very polarizing and very partisan piece of legislation to it, is Obama's fault anyway. And I honestly don't understand how you can view Obama as the most divisive president of your lifetime. Even if you were only born the day Obama took office that still wouldn't be true. lol We obviously see most things completely differently Tasker and grin reaper. I acknowledge your opinions, but I know I'll never sway them so I'll just respectfully end this conversation.
boyst Posted September 27, 2017 Posted September 27, 2017 I don't see it that way at all. I think that's a false moral equivalence. White supremacy is not = to BLM. The way I see it - A leader of white supremacists (and nazi sympathizer) who identifies with what that group represents (including that the white race is superior to minorities, that they don't deserve all the same rights whites do, that we need a "peaceful ethnic cleansing" & that wants to create an all white homeland (to name just a few things)) is not equivalent to someone who believes that black lives matter as much as white lives do, openly welcomes those of different races into their group and thinks that everyone should be treated equal. I do not agree with everything BLM says or condone every action they take but their guiding principles are much different than those of a hate group like the white supremacists. Not exactly sure what you mean by BLM set up residence in the White House, but if you mean Obama then I totally disagree. Also, I had no idea what you talking about when you said he "vowed to make citizens pay as deep a price as possible". So I looked it up. It took me a while to find anything. The only thing I really came across was something on Brietbart (the poster child of fake news) and a couple similar sites, that they called "shutdown theatre". They referrred to the 2013 govt shutdown and then proceeded to twist words and distort the truth. I'm not even going to bother trying to argue against it if that's what your referring to. I'll just say that I don't agree and I don't really see how congress failing to pass legislation to keep non essential government functions running, mainly because republicans attached a very polarizing and very partisan piece of legislation to it, is Obama's fault anyway. And I honestly don't understand how you can view Obama as the most divisive president of your lifetime. Even if you were only born the day Obama took office that still wouldn't be true. lol We obviously see most things completely differently Tasker and grin reaper. I acknowledge your opinions, but I know I'll never sway them so I'll just respectfully end this conversation. black lives matter is exactly what the KKK is
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