No more XX Bills fans (Title edited)

[Dr. Who]

I'm starting to actually dislike bills fans cause of this site. A fan that hopes for tanking is not a fan.

I've been a fan since the days of Dennis Shaw, so I consider that I've paid my dues and can root for whatever plan I think most likely to produce a Buffalo Superbowl win while I am still alive.

Ironically, I also have had to continue my affection for the team in spite of many fellow fans on internet message boards. I liked it before modern technology revealed how often I find my fellows to be ignorant, rude, and disagreeable. In any event, we need a franchise qb and it is unlikely another mediocre year will yield a good opportunity to get one. I am not opposed to one very bad year if it results in many good ones. I'd like to hear the rationale for how 7-9 or 8-8 is going to help the team achieve excellence going forward. If you think we are better than that, you make Pollyanna appear a pessimist.

[Tcali]

I'm starting to actually dislike bills fans cause of this site. A fan that hopes for tanking is not a fan.

plus the fact that it rarely works. even with Luck they gutted the team around him ...He may be all used up at this point.

[Dr. Who]

plus the fact that it rarely works. even with Luck they gutted the team around him ...He may be all used up at this point.

The former Colts' GM criminally failed to improve the O-line.

[K D]

plus the fact that it rarely works. even with Luck they gutted the team around him ...He may be all used up at this point.

they were within 1 game of the Super Bowl. we haven't even made the playoffs in almost 2 decades. i'll take my chances with what the Colts did

[Tcali]

they were within 1 game of the Super Bowl. we haven't even made the playoffs in almost 2 decades. i'll take my chances with what the Colts did

Luck carried them on his back..They were never that good.Playing in a weak AFC they managed a playoff win. I just dont think they did it right. Of course Polian was dumped after the successful tank so who knows what may have been.

The former Colts' GM criminally failed to improve the O-line.

 

The former Colts' GM criminally failed to improve the O-line.

true

[Saxum]

I'm fcking sick of it.

 

This is post #17 after 17 years, hopefully post #18 in 18 years will be better.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

The former Colts' GM criminally failed to improve the O-line.

 

...which is why the Browns hired him....go figure..........

[PromoTheRobot]

I was too young to remember the last time the Bills were in the playoffs. It has been 17 years and frankly I'm fcking sick of it. When is enough enough! The defense I saw against Carolina was amazing. Can't we all just agree we are a QB away from the playoffs? We probably need a few better WR's and such, but we have been neglecting the most important position in all of football for over 17 years, it is crazy!!! Doug Whaley, Dick Jauron, Rex Ryan, and countless other trash coaches/GM's have done nothing but prolong this embarrassment. If we had a 1st Rd Qb I can tell you we would be in the playoffs within 2 years and competing for the Lombardi trophy in five. What fcking idiot takes a WR or even a CB in the 1st rd when we dont even have an established QB. Sure, you can make the argument that having a great QB doesn't guarantee you playoffs as example by the Saints and Colts. But Drew Brees has a ring and Luck has brought them to two AFC Championships. Even if you discard that you can see that Sean Mcderrmott is not going to let the defense be soft as evident by his time in Carolina and his coaching here so far. I am sick of watching a s*it product on the field every Sunday, we need to let the Bills front office know we are not going to take this garbage team's product anymore. I one day want to see the 90's four superbowl losses become a distant memory, when we can hold the Lombardi trophy high over the streets of Buffalo.

 

Careful, before you get labeled a fan hater.

[ohboychoboy]

The tank crowd never ceases to amaze me. They ignore the fact that Jacksonville has been drafting in the Top 10 for 10 straight years now, 5 of which have been in the top 5. And drafted two absolute stud, can't miss franchise QBs (or so Mel Kiper and his ESPN cronies told us) in Blaine Gabbert and Blake Bortles. And what did they have to show for it after 9 years? 3-13. And never mind the fact that New England has been drafting from the 30-hole for almost 2 decades now and is inarguably the best team in sports history.

plus the fact that it rarely works. even with Luck they gutted the team around him ...He may be all used up at this point.

Luck? Who is this Luck man you speak of? Is he stil in the NFL?

[xsoldier54]

I was too young to remember the last time the Bills were in the playoffs. It has been 17 years and frankly I'm fcking sick of it. When is enough enough! The defense I saw against Carolina was amazing. Can't we all just agree we are a QB away from the playoffs? We probably need a few better WR's and such, but we have been neglecting the most important position in all of football for over 17 years, it is crazy!!! Doug Whaley, Dick Jauron, Rex Ryan, and countless other trash coaches/GM's have done nothing but prolong this embarrassment. If we had a 1st Rd Qb I can tell you we would be in the playoffs within 2 years and competing for the Lombardi trophy in five. What fcking idiot takes a WR or even a CB in the 1st rd when we dont even have an established QB. Sure, you can make the argument that having a great QB doesn't guarantee you playoffs as example by the Saints and Colts. But Drew Brees has a ring and Luck has brought them to two AFC Championships. Even if you discard that you can see that Sean Mcderrmott is not going to let the defense be soft as evident by his time in Carolina and his coaching here so far. I am sick of watching a s*it product on the field every Sunday, we need to let the Bills front office know we are not going to take this garbage team's product anymore. I one day want to see the 90's four superbowl losses become a distant memory, when we can hold the Lombardi trophy high over the streets of Buffalo.

 

So you just take any QB in the first round regardless if there's another player who is 10x better at his position. Brilliant strategy. They didn't draft a QB in the past few years because they had so many other positions of need and there just wasn't a first round talent available. It has a lot to do with drafting in the middle of the first round all the time instead of at the beginning of it.

[xRUSHx]

I've said for years draft 2 QB's every year until you find "The one"...If you want to win the lottery you have to buy more tickets.

Hell yeah, right on man we need better QB prospects, I agree its a lottery got to be in it to win it. It is a QB driven league so without one your team is going nowhere. Not sure about drafting two every year but one top prospect every other year I agree with.

 

I love how Carolina drafted a QB with their top pick two years in a row to land Cam.

Edited September 23, 2017 by xRUSHx

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I've said for years draft 2 QB's every year until you find "The one"...If you want to win the lottery you have to buy more tickets.

 

...can we see what teams subscribe to your success proposal and THEIR results???........

[xRUSHx]

The tank crowd never ceases to amaze me. They ignore the fact that Jacksonville has been drafting in the Top 10 for 10 straight years now, 5 of which have been in the top 5. And drafted two absolute stud, can't miss franchise QBs (or so Mel Kiper and his ESPN cronies told us) in Blaine Gabbert and Blake Bortles. And what did they have to show for it after 9 years? 3-13. And never mind the fact that New England has been drafting from the 30-hole for almost 2 decades now and is inarguably the best team in sports history.

 

Luck? Who is this Luck man you speak of? Is he stil in the NFL?

For you to not know enough about Luck shows where your knowledge of QBs is. You can't predict injuries, if Indy did a better job protecting him Luck would be playing, injuries happen.

 

Not sure where you got the absolute studs while describing those two in Gab and Bort. What many wanted for years was a QB taken early like one in the top 3 rounds. Buffalo could have Dak on the team starting right now. With this next draft its the prime time to take one with the top pick because they are saying its going to be a very good draft for QBs and we now have a very good prospect to compete with him in Peterman.

Edited September 23, 2017 by xRUSHx

[ddaryl]

I've been a Bills fans since I can remember. Going to games at Rich and watching OJ run the ball.

 

I've endured it all.. but no matter how horrible fans become I'm true blue till death.

 

This franchise has been woeful at keeping the QB position stocked and that is a direct correlation to the misery..

 

Another problem is the merry go round of coaches and GM's just isn't helping our situation either. we need to stick with this pair for more than 3 no matter what IMO

Edited September 23, 2017 by ddaryl

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

So here's some examples of how well tanking worked out. (just listing QB's)

 

David Carr

Alex Smith

Tim Couch

Jamarcus Russell

Akili Smith #3 overall

Rick Mirer #2 overall

Heath Shuler #3 overall

Ryan Leaf #2 overall

 

 

The problem is we don't build around the QB, we tend to do the opposite. Which has been proven to be an ineffective way to build an NFL team. The only way to get a solid 1st rd Qb is to tank, cause else we will get somebody who is either a 'work in progress' or another e.j manuel.

100% agree

 

 

Yes but in the NFL particularity today with the CBA rules limiting practice, with two QB's every year, there wouldn't be enough time to even look at the tickets to determine if you have a winner. I've read where the #2 QB every week gets about 6 reps per week with the #1 offense. So based on that limited time to show your stuff how is drafting two QB's a year every going to tell you anything?

 

 

I've said for years draft 2 QB's every year until you find "The one"...If you want to win the lottery you have to buy more tickets.

[Scott7975]

So here's some examples of how well tanking worked out. (just listing QB's)

 

David Carr

Alex Smith

Tim Couch

Jamarcus Russell

Akili Smith #3 overall

Rick Mirer #2 overall

Heath Shuler #3 overall

Ryan Leaf #2 overall

 

 

 

 

Yes but in the NFL particularity today with the CBA rules limiting practice, with two QB's every year, there wouldn't be enough time to even look at the tickets to determine if you have a winner. I've read where the #2 QB every week gets about 6 reps per week with the #1 offense. So based on that limited time to show your stuff how is drafting two QB's a year every going to tell you anything?

 

 

Which is why teams generally don't draft 2 QBs every year... or even 1 every year for that matter.

[SoTier]

Looking at the 2018 QB class it can easily be argued that there will be value throughout the 1st round, not just in the 1st 5 picks. As far as not putting in the work for us to become successful, we have 6 picks in the 1st 3 rounds of next years draft, which is all the ammo we should need to secure the QB of our preference in a QB rich draft class. Lots of people have claimed they want us to bottom out and tank, and now that we've lost 1 game (by 6 points, we covered the spread) they're upset that we're losing.

 

This is nonsense because it's based on false logic. The success or failure of any draft class or any position within a draft class can only be judged by success in the NFL of the players with the draft class or drafted position. Who the hell cares if there's 6 QBs taken in the first round in 2018 if they all bust? A first round QB who is a bust isn't any kind of "value". Moreover, for whatever reason, most likely because colleges aren't running pro-style offenses very much any more but possibly just mere coincidence, there's seems to be a growing trend in the last 5 years for serviceable or better QBs to come from outside of the first round.

 

Looking at all the QBs drafted in the first round between 2001 and 2014 (I wanted QBs to have a minimum of 3 years to prove themselves), I found there were 39.

• Of those, 3 are likely HOF candidates: Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger from 2004 and Aaron Rodgers from 2005. Those guys are "top tier franchise QBs" IMO. (< 8%)
• There's another group of 6 or 7 first round QBs who I call "second tier" (I can't decide if Michael Vick should be in this group or in the next lower group). They're all winners: Vick (2001), Palmer (2003), Rivers (2004), Ryan (2008), Stafford (2009), Newton (2011), Luck (2012). Some of them will likely become HOFers, most likely Rivers, Ryan, and/or Stafford. (17.9%)
• I found another group of 6 QBs taken in the first round who weren't quite as good as the first two groups but who were certainly not busts, either. These were Alex Smith (2003), Jay Cutler (2006), Joe Flacco (2008), Sam Bradford (2010), Ryan Tannehill (2012), and Teddy Bridgewater (2014). I included Bridgewater because in his first two seasons, he was a very serviceable QB, and his future is in doubt because of an injury not because of how he played when healthy. (15.4%)
• The largest group, by far, was the first round QBs who busted. There were 23 of those. (59%). 11 of them were drafted in the bottom half of the first round. 5 busts came from the top three picks, including two #1 picks (David Carr (2002 - #1 and JaMarcus Russell (2007 - #1)). The remaining 7 were drafted between #5 and #12.
• Prior to 2011, you could count on the fingers of 1 hand and have a digit or two to spare the number of successful QBs who were drafted outside the first round: Drew Brees (2001 - 2nd); Matt Schaub (2004 - 3rd); Kyle Orton (2005 - 4th). There was also UDFA Tony Romo.
• Since then, there's been a virtual explosion of successful QBs coming from later rounds: Andy Dalton (2011 - 2nd), Russell Wilson (2012 -3rd), Kirk Cousins (2012 - 4th), Mike Glennon (2013 - 4th), and Derrick Carr (2014 - 2nd).

The biggest take away from these numbers is that drafting a first round QB guarantees nothing. Carson Palmer, Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, and Andrew Luck are all perfect examples of how much at the mercy of competent support from FO and coaching even good/great QBs are: all of these QBs have suffered at times in their careers from poor FO support and coaching.

 

Those who think that all the Bills need to do to start winning is to draft a first round QB in 2018 are likely in for a rude awakening. It will take more than that. Much more.

[SoTier]

Which is why teams generally don't draft 2 QBs every year... or even 1 every year for that matter.

 

Most years there aren't even two QBs worth drafting. Only 5 of 14 years between 2001 and 2014 produced two or more decent starters from any round: 2004, 2005, 2008, 2011, and 2012. If Bridgewater can't return to play well and Bortles doesn't resurrect his career then 2014 won't be one either.

[Maynard]

Why can't we have a solid defense and offense? We are constantly flip flopping, starting to piss me off lol.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

So much emo in this thread. Salty tears to quench my thirst.

Edited September 23, 2017 by joesixpack