"The Vietnam War"

[Tiberius]

I haven't seen it, so I trust those who have -

 

But...

 

It was a false flag, planned and executed by the Pentagon with LBJ's blessing. To paint it as anything but is to carry the water for the Pentagon's illegal actions which were done to create American support for the war. To present it as an authentic event, or a "misunderstanding" is deliberately misconstruing history to make the Pentagon look better in hindsight.

 

That would be a sin for a historian of Burns' caliber imo.

From what I understand, the Resolution was on the shelf with little Congressional support. So LBJ waited. The "Attack" probably never happened, but there was real confusion because a real attack had taken place a few days before. What the public was not told was that the CIA was helping to coordinate attacks against NV's islands in the Gulf before that so the attacks by NV were really retaliation. "The Fog of War" documentary with Robert McNamara's has audio from somewhere of the communications where voices are saying "We were attacked for sure!....we think."

 

After the "attack" the resolution was taken off the shelf and presented to Congress where it received huge support.

[Mark Vader]

The very first episode was outstanding. The back story on Ho Chi Minh was a revelation to me.

Yes, the first episode was great.

 

Everything about Ho Chi Minh, the French colonization, the rise of communism after World War II.

 

Fascinating.

[Deranged Rhino]

Yes, the first episode was great.

 

Everything about Ho Chi Minh, the French colonization, the rise of communism after World War II.

 

Fascinating.

 

Not to get too spiritual, but I've always imagined that if there is something after death, there would be some sort of option that lets you watch the "true" history of the planet in a Ken Burns style doc format. Kind of like Defending Your Life but with Ken Burns directing the scenes.

[Lurker]

 

Not to get too spiritual, but I've always imagined that if there is something after death, there would be some sort of option that lets you watch the "true" history of the planet in a Ken Burns style doc format. Kind of like Defending Your Life but with Ken Burns directing the scenes.

With Peter Coyote playing the role of Saint Peter...

[Wayne Arnold]

I've watched the first two episodes and have the other three on DVR and the next five scheduled. Knew little about Vietnam aside from the 60's protests and it was a mistake and movies and stuff. So I've been looking forward to this since I heard about it in the spring.

 

I'm loving it. Not quite to the level of the Civil War, at least from a emotional standpoint. But it's important to realize that it really began in 1858 when France invaded Vietnam and decided "the white men from Europe are in charge now." Nearly a century later the Vietnamese were still under French rule and were barely recognized by the USA until World War II when Japan invaded and the United States and Ho Chi Minh became allies. Minh praised the US as a champion of democracy who would surely help them end colonial rule.

 

Fast-forward 10-15 years and one could say the Americans betrayed Ho Chi Minh. I'm not saying he was an angel and his political preferences were out of whack but the guy just wanted his Vietnamese people to be free of European colonization.

 

Perhaps most interesting is that it was JFK who first knew that we needed to get out of Vietnam...and yet refused for political reasons.

[Deranged Rhino]

With Peter Coyote playing the role of Saint Peter...

[Tiberius]

Perhaps most interesting is that it was JFK who first knew that we needed to get out of Vietnam...and yet refused for political reasons.

 

When China went Communist in 1949 the Democrats got beat up for it and lost the presidency for first time in twenty years. Then Cuba went Communist and Kennedy jumped all over that and won in 1960. The last dominio in the domino theory was the presidency. Both JFK and LBJ knew it was a quagmire to get in. Kennedy getting assassiinated may well have condemned many Americans and Vietnamese to death. Had Kennedy won in 64 he might not have the incentive to send 500,000 ground troops to Vietnam the way LBJ did who was looking forward to '68. No president wanted that image on tv of American helicopters leaving Nam as losers.

Here is an interesting phone conversation with LBJ and Senator Russel:

 

 

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resources/lbj-and-richard-russell-on-vietnam

[gomper]

When China went Communist in 1949 the Democrats got beat up for it and lost the presidency for first time in twenty years. Then Cuba went Communist and Kennedy jumped all over that and won in 1960. The last dominio in the domino theory was the presidency. Both JFK and LBJ knew it was a quagmire to get in. Kennedy getting assassiinated may well have condemned many Americans and Vietnamese to death. Had Kennedy won in 64 he might not have the incentive to send 500,000 ground troops to Vietnam the way LBJ did who was looking forward to '68. No president wanted that image on tv of American helicopters leaving Nam as losers.

Here is an interesting phone conversation with LBJ and Senator Russel:

 

 

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resources/lbj-and-richard-russell-on-vietnam

Fascinating piece of history. LBJ sounds totally lost.

[Fan in San Diego]

As with any presentation, what you see is colored by the producer's views on the subject. Having said that, it's on PBS, so that speaks for itself.

 

I'm a Viet Nam era vet., but never served there, so I am watching. The war was a national tragedy! Every time I see "the Wall," I ask myself; What for?? Sadly, I'm not sure the USA learned a lot from that, and most of the people who were the decision makers, are either deceased, or retired, so I'm always afraid that we could make a similar mistake in the future.

You don't think Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria are similar to Vietnam? To me they are the same all over again. We should have never went to Iraq to begin with. No America has definitely not learned the lesson. Stay out of other people's countries!

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Yup, the show has taken the US position of it being a Civil War, with the Burnsian gushing sentimentality and pet views he wants to push.

 

The anti-colonial viewpoint will eventually take over everywhere except for those defending the US administrations, which the show is rife with for interviews and insider thought.

 

A good watch though.

I have held a huge unlettered interest, even as a Canadian.

 

I have no decisive answers and won't condemn anything that anyone did to survive over there or over here.

 

Recently attended the funeral of a beloved coach who got on a bus in Florida on his 19th birthday and stayed in Canada until around 2006 to finally see his family again, whatever it took.

 

 

[Fadingpain]

Not sure people are aware of it, but if you go to PBS.ORG you can stream all previously aired episodes, including an "explicit" version which does is not cleaned up for TV airing.

 

I guess this version shows more violence and allows swearing, etc.

 

I am now through the first 3 episodes, all watched online in "explicit" mode and have found the series riveting.

 

The first in particular is must-see stuff.

 

As early as the early '50s, it was obvious that the war would be winless and a massive waste, as all wars are.

 

58,000 Americans, over a million North Vietnamese, a few hundred thousands South Vietnamese...all dead.

 

Totally avoidable and the by-product of the political decisions of wealthy elites who do no fighting themselves.

 

Same story as it has ever been, for the most part.

[row_33]

Guess i was not clear..that why the "probably" was in quotation marks. He authorized the bombing based on the "attack" from the Viet Cong..and there was no attack. He then used the "attack" to advance the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. That is all according to the film as best I can recollect. I watch these things when my old ass wakes up in the middle of the night

 

There was no attack, has been documented several times by sources.

 

Burns is sticking with the story from the side of the Pentagon, the wife of a Rand interrogator, other admin folk.

[KD in CA]

 

Not to get too spiritual, but I've always imagined that if there is something after death, there would be some sort of option that lets you watch the "true" history of the planet in a Ken Burns style doc format. Kind of like Defending Your Life but with Ken Burns directing the scenes.

 

I LOVE that movie...one of the most underrated comedies ever. Albert Brooks and Rip Torn were hilarious. Even Meryl Streep couldn't ruin it.

[plenzmd1]

 

There was no attack, has been documented several times by sources.

 

Burns is sticking with the story from the side of the Pentagon, the wife of a Rand interrogator, other admin folk.

 

Guessing reading comprehension not your strong suit, and you have not watched a second of this film?

 

I LOVE that movie...one of the most underrated comedies ever. Albert Brooks and Rip Torn were hilarious. Even Meryl Streep couldn't ruin it.

Ha, just watched again about 3 weeks ago. It is awesome!

[Deranged Rhino]

 

I LOVE that movie...one of the most underrated comedies ever. Albert Brooks and Rip Torn were hilarious. Even Meryl Streep couldn't ruin it.

[row_33]

 

Guessing reading comprehension not your strong suit, and you have not watched a second of this film?

Ha, just watched again about 3 weeks ago. It is awesome!

 

Read dozens of books on the Vietnam war, and the Gulf of Tonkin was a total fiction, it's not even in dispute.

 

David Koch is a MAJOR sponsor of this series.... Burns is trying to get a touchy-feely "can't we all just get along here" vibe as always

 

Standing with the efforts of the individual men and women who fought to the best of their abilities is a good thing here, the rest is about as emotional and third-rate history as he has done for the Civil War, baseball and jazz.

[dpberr]

My thoughts:

 

I had no idea Peter Coyote was still alive. For some reason, I thought he had passed a number of years ago. I was surprised to hear him narrating the shows.

 

My overall feeling about the Vietnam War: A sad, regrettable, completely unnecessary waste of humanity. That's further compounded by the fact, today, we are Vietnam's second largest trading partner and we hold joint military operations with them.

[row_33]

That was something else last night.

 

So how does he come up with the overall view that decent people with good intentions had something that just happened to go bad on them?

[K-9]

Another illuminating episode last night. I was struck by many things including the irony of 30,000 Canadians volunteering to fight in Nam while tens of thousands of American boys sought to avoid service by going there.

 

Most struck by the level of hatred shown towards the parents of William Schroeder, Kent State student and an ROTC member who was shot and killed by Ohio National guardsmen while simply observing the events from a student parking lot. His parents received the most vile kind of hate mail imaginable with sentiments suggesting they were better off that their "commie" son was dead. I don't believe in hell, but part of me wishes there was an eternal place of misery for the special kind of evil those letter writers represent. Despicable.

[row_33]

Another illuminating episode last night. I was struck by many things including the irony of 30,000 Canadians volunteering to fight in Nam while tens of thousands of American boys sought to avoid service by going there.

 

Most struck by the level of hatred shown towards the parents of William Schroeder, Kent State student and an ROTC member who was shot and killed by Ohio National guardsmen while simply observing the events from a student parking lot. His parents received the most vile kind of hate mail imaginable with sentiments suggesting they were better off that their "commie" son was dead. I don't believe in hell, but part of me wishes there was an eternal place of misery for the special kind of evil those letter writers represent. Despicable.

 

After Calley was sentenced the vast majority of Americans supported his actions at My Lai, at least according to the polls.

 

Basically every able-bodied male in English Canada volunteered for World War 2.