dpberr Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Anyone tune into the documentary that's currently airing on PBS? Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 There's been some discussions in the What Show To Start thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Yup, the show has taken the US position of it being a Civil War, with the Burnsian gushing sentimentality and pet views he wants to push. The anti-colonial viewpoint will eventually take over everywhere except for those defending the US administrations, which the show is rife with for interviews and insider thought. A good watch though. I have held a huge unlettered interest, even as a Canadian. I have no decisive answers and won't condemn anything that anyone did to survive over there or over here. Recently attended the funeral of a beloved coach who got on a bus in Florida on his 19th birthday and stayed in Canada until around 2006 to finally see his family again, whatever it took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 As with any presentation, what you see is colored by the producer's views on the subject. Having said that, it's on PBS, so that speaks for itself. I'm a Viet Nam era vet., but never served there, so I am watching. The war was a national tragedy! Every time I see "the Wall," I ask myself; What for?? Sadly, I'm not sure the USA learned a lot from that, and most of the people who were the decision makers, are either deceased, or retired, so I'm always afraid that we could make a similar mistake in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I haven't watched it yet, but question for those that have: did Burns really treat the Gulf of Tonkin Incident as a real attack and not a false flag? I heard he did, which would be highly disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I haven't watched it yet, but question for those that have: did Burns really treat the Gulf of Tonkin Incident as a real attack and not a false flag? I heard he did, which would be highly disappointing. I think he is probably more careful with the material than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I think he is probably more careful with the material than that I would think so too, which is why I was surprised to hear that. Did you watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) I haven't watched it yet, but question for those that have: did Burns really treat the Gulf of Tonkin Incident as a real attack and not a false flag? I heard he did, which would be highly disappointing. From what I have seen, it looks as if Burns makes the Gulf of Tonkin look like more of an attack. It's tough to say. That being said, the documentary is very good. I admit that I know very little about the Vietnam War, so I don't know how much being shown could be slanted. Edited September 22, 2017 by Mark Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 From what I have seen, it looks as if Burns makes the Gulf of Tonkin look like more of an attack. That being said, the documentary is very good. I admit that I know very little about the Vietnam War, so I don't know how much being shown could be slanted. If he made it look like an attack, then it's definitely not an objective look at the war imo (saying that without seeing a frame of it, so it's probably a dumb statement to make). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I'm recording the series, but have yet to watch a full episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 If he made it look like an attack, then it's definitely not an objective look at the war imo (saying that without seeing a frame of it, so it's probably a dumb statement to make). Again, it's difficult to say, because Burns is showing this documentary from every perspective. You'll have to judge it when you see it. I'm on Part 3 right now, "The River Styx", and it is very well made. I never watched Burns' Baseball or Jazz documentaries, but I think his Civil War documentary is a masterpiece, and the one he made for World War II was very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Again, it's difficult to say, because Burns is showing this documentary from every perspective. You'll have to judge it when you see it. I'm on Part 3 right now, "The River Styx", and it is very well made. I never watched Burns' Baseball or Jazz documentaries, but I think his Civil War documentary is a masterpiece, and the one he made for World War II was very good. Cool and I agree on Burns, I've loved all his docs and I'm sure I'll enjoy this one as well. I was just surprised by those reports because Burns doesn't strike me as a guy to carry the Pentagon's water in terms of sanitizing history. Appreciate the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 From what I have seen, it looks as if Burns makes the Gulf of Tonkin look like more of an attack. It's tough to say. I did not get that all. What he said in the film is US Intelligence officers mistook radio communication from the North Vietnamese( Viet Cong) . US interpreted it as them getting ready to attack, when in reality it was just a warning to be guarded against an attack from the ARVN. When LBJ heard it was "probably" an attack, he authorized more bombing raids. He then advanced the Gulf of Tonkin resolution and was widely saluted for it at home and his popularity shot up like 30 pts overnight according to the documentary. People applauded the limited role and clear goals. Cool and I agree on Burns, I've loved all his docs and I'm sure I'll enjoy this one as well. I was just surprised by those reports because Burns doesn't strike me as a guy to carry the Pentagon's water in terms of sanitizing history. Appreciate the info! He is not doing that at ALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I did not get that all. What he said in the film is US Intelligence officers mistook radio communication from the North Vietnamese( Viet Cong) . US interpreted it as them getting ready to attack, when in reality it was just a warning to be guarded against an attack from the ARVN. When LBJ heard it was "probably" an attack, he authorized more bombing raids. He then advanced the Gulf of Tonkin resolution and was widely saluted for it at home and his popularity shot up like 30 pts overnight according to the documentary. People applauded the limited role and clear goals. I haven't seen it, so I trust those who have - But... It was a false flag, planned and executed by the Pentagon with LBJ's blessing. To paint it as anything but is to carry the water for the Pentagon's illegal actions which were done to create American support for the war. To present it as an authentic event, or a "misunderstanding" is deliberately misconstruing history to make the Pentagon look better in hindsight. That would be a sin for a historian of Burns' caliber imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) Guess i was not clear..that why the "probably" was in quotation marks. He authorized the bombing based on the "attack" from the Viet Cong..and there was no attack. He then used the "attack" to advance the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. That is all according to the film as best I can recollect. I watch these things when my old ass wakes up in the middle of the night Edited September 22, 2017 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Cool and I agree on Burns, I've loved all his docs and I'm sure I'll enjoy this one as well. I was just surprised by those reports because Burns doesn't strike me as a guy to carry the Pentagon's water in terms of sanitizing history. Appreciate the info! They certainly do enough to show the lies of Westmoreland and McNamara from the little I have watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Guess i was not clear..that why the "probably" was in quotation marks. He authorized the bombing based on the "attack" from the Viet Cong..and there was no attack. He then used the "attack" to advance the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. That is all according to the film as best I can recollect. I watch these things when my old ass wakes up in the middle of the night It's all good. I'm the stupid one commenting on a doc I haven't seen. I just like Burns so was disheartened to hear that and was hoping I heard wrong. They certainly do enough to show the lies of Westmoreland and McNamara from the little I have watched. Ugh. Well that tracks with the above I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 The very first episode was outstanding. The back story on Ho Chi Minh was a revelation to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I would think so too, which is why I was surprised to hear that. Did you watch? I have not seen it yet. Love Ken Burns, have studied the Nam for decades now but just not in the mood for that war now, lol. Been reading books about the air war in Europe of late. I'm sure its good. I'll probably catch it in a few years. The history channel had a series on Nam a few years ago that was really good. The PBS Vietnam a Television History was a great series as was the Ten Thousand Day War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I did not get that all. What he said in the film is US Intelligence officers mistook radio communication from the North Vietnamese( Viet Cong) . US interpreted it as them getting ready to attack, when in reality it was just a warning to be guarded against an attack from the ARVN. When LBJ heard it was "probably" an attack, he authorized more bombing raids. He then advanced the Gulf of Tonkin resolution and was widely saluted for it at home and his popularity shot up like 30 pts overnight according to the documentary. People applauded the limited role and clear goals. He is not doing that at ALL Yes, that does sound far more accurate than my description. I have been watching this late at night, so my recollection is foggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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