I love narratives to make points - SF Defense & Watkins

[The Big Cat]

I said my piece in the gameday thread. Today hurts though. Watkkns, Woods, Goodwin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matthews, Zay, Holmes

 

We had a surefire #1, solid #2 and an elite deep threat. Now we have a slow #2, a struggling (but talented) rookie that probably peaks as a solid 2 and some guys that don't belong in the NFL.

So only after leaving the Bills did Woods become that elusive "true number 2" that everyone was clamoring for last year?

 

Face it, both QBs last night are better than ours. Period.

 

That's everything you need to know about Bills WR past present and future.

[JM2009]

So only after leaving the Bills did Woods become that elusive "true number 2" that everyone was clamoring for last year?

 

Face it, both QBs last night are better than ours. Period.

 

That's everything you need to know about Bills WR past present and future.

Hoyer isn't better.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

Yep, Whaley was good and we will come to find that out. Even guys like Humber, Zach Brown Lorax, NRC, Incognito, etc.... He found production at a bargain price.

Whaley was good, but his problem was that he was always butting heads with coaches. Yes, the coaches were big mistakes. I think after having loser coaches tarnishing his work, he went after McD in a power struggle and lost. I don't think he believed that Pegs would hand that much power over to a rookie coach. I also think McD didn't like the attitude of some of the "star" Whaley players, who had learned how to run the funny farm under Rex. This was a recipe for disaster.

[Kirby Jackson]

Very good at bringing talent in. But, his drafting left a lot to be desired. never the less, Watkins should not have been traded.

They didn't draft as poorly as people remember: Darby, Kiko, Preston Brown, Miller, Woods, Shaq. It wasn't perfect but there are much, much worse drafting teams (see the Saints, New Orleans).

[Kirby Jackson]

His infatuation with EJ was his biggest downfall IMO.

Dont disagree here.

So only after leaving the Bills did Woods become that elusive "true number 2" that everyone was clamoring for last year?

 

Face it, both QBs last night are better than ours. Period.

 

That's everything you need to know about Bills WR past present and future.

That's not true at all. They play in wide open offenses with young genius offensive minded head coaches. TT still has been way better than those 2 since taking over (although Goff looks like a player).

[4merper4mer]

he would have been gone next year. they got what they could for him while they could. btw, he's hurt again. just saying

False. They could have gotten him for a cheap 5th year. All they had to do was pick up his option.

[Kirby Jackson]

Whaley was good, but his problem was that he was always butting heads with coaches. Yes, the coaches were big mistakes. I think after having loser coaches tarnishing his work, he went after McD in a power struggle and lost. I don't think he believed that Pegs would hand that much power over to a rookie coach. I also think McD didn't like the attitude of some of the "star" Whaley players, who had learned how to run the funny farm under Rex. This was a recipe for disaster.

I agree 1,000,000% with all of this. Good post

Yes, but if we cut Holmes we get a comp pick, which is so much more important than winning.

That comp pick is bettter than Holmes

[4merper4mer]

 

what would you be doing differently, starting with Rex's departure?

Pickup Sammy's option. It was the easiest decision that they had to make BY FAR. And they got it 180 degrees out of phase and doubled down on the stupidity by trading him after diminishing his value.

 

A lot of the rest of what they have done has been seemingly wise, but this was just egregiously stupid.

Edited September 22, 2017 by 4merper4mer

[Kirby Jackson]

Pickup Sammy's option. It was the easiest decision that had to make BY FAR. And they got it 180 degrees out of phase and doubled down on the stupidity by trading him after diminishing his value.

 

A lot of the rest of what they have done has been seemingly wise, but this was just egregiously stupid.

Here is a video of Beane negotiating the Watkins trade:

[4merper4mer]

So only after leaving the Bills did Woods become that elusive "true number 2" that everyone was clamoring for last year?

 

Face it, both QBs last night are better than ours. Period.

 

That's everything you need to know about Bills WR past present and future.

 

 

So Goff with Matthews > TT with Watkins?

 

You blamed TT for a pathetic defense last year and yet this year's is good. Now you're blaming TT for career long crappy receivers looking crappy? How about keeping your criticism of TT to TT and not blaming him for everyone else's shortcomings?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

We don't know what the extension negotiations were like (if they occurred at all), and we decided not to exercise the 5th year likely because of issues with injuries. If you don't think that our training staff and doctors looked him over before they made that decision you are wrong.

 

Truth be told - they very likely weren't going to franchise him because it ties up a lot of the cap and he was going to hit the open market. He seems like the type of player who wants his money now, In exchange for 1 year of his service we would POSSIBLY get a 3rd round comp pick in 2019. Instead we got a 2018 2nd round pick, and Gaines who is currently starting at CB.

 

I look at it like this - we weren't a WR away from a super bowl this year. If you don't see him with the organization in 2018 and beyond... it makes sense to maximize value in your rebuild.

Pickup Sammy's option. It was the easiest decision that they had to make BY FAR. And they got it 180 degrees out of phase and doubled down on the stupidity by trading him after diminishing his value.

 

A lot of the rest of what they have done has been seemingly wise, but this was just egregiously stupid.

 

They didn't pick up the option because they had injury concerns. The team dr's probably looked it over and were unsure if he'd have ongoing issues.

 

The trade came later when we received an offer to build the team quicker for hopefully long term success.

[Kirby Jackson]

We don't know what the extension negotiations were like (if they occurred at all), and we decided not to exercise the 5th year likely because of issues with injuries. If you don't think that our training staff and doctors looked him over before they made that decision you are wrong.

 

Truth be told - they very likely weren't going to franchise him because it ties up a lot of the cap and he was going to hit the open market. He seems like the type of player who wants his money now, In exchange for 1 year of his service we would POSSIBLY get a 3rd round comp pick in 2019. Instead we got a 2018 2nd round pick, and Gaines who is currently starting at CB.

 

I look at it like this - we weren't a WR away from a super bowl this year. If you don't see him with the organization in 2018 and beyond... it makes sense to maximize value in your rebuild.

You never trade a star - period. All of these, "we weren't going to pay him" arguments go out the window when the Bills had him under control for AT LEAST 3 more years. It wasn't his decision, it was theirs. That can't be missed here. He could have played under the 5th year option and the tag twice.

[bobobonators]

So SF who held Newton to less passing yards then Buff did and Seattle on the road to also under 200 yards passing now has a lousy defense once the LA Rams shred them.

 

Watkins who had 7 targets in two weeks, caught 6 of 7 yesterday, but again is soft as he is in concussion protocol.

 

His fans claimed that Goff still trying to get comfortable with him, like TT with Matthews.....

 

Conversely Philly seems not to miss Matthews at all either.

 

Again it is obvious watching the Rams, that Goff looks just okay, but when you have an offensive scheme, movement and interesting packages, everyone looks better and played are open.

 

And as Bills fan the idea of a 300 yard passing game is just a dream.

 

Will see what happens Sunday, and who knows come Monday the Bills maybe the surprise of the NFL season (or allow 40 points).

 

Yes only 2 games + 1, but anyone who says Watkins isn't a top receiver Talent and only salivates about draft picks just is not watching the game.

 

 

When its week 17, lets revisit this thread and see where the 49ers rank in the NFL on defense.

 

Fact: it was a divisional game on a short week. Sometimes divisional games get crazy (ie. Mia @ Buf last year).

 

The 49ers defense is and will be bad.

 

Keeping the Hawks from passing for 200 is like saying they kept us from passing for 200. Hardly an achievement.

 

That being said, i come away from yesterday's game with the following:

 

Its AMAZING what a great offensive mind can do to average Quarterbacks and offenses in general.

 

McVay and Shanahan were the real stars last night. Because of them, those franchises are headed in the right direction.

[4merper4mer]

We don't know what the extension negotiations were like (if they occurred at all), and we decided not to exercise the 5th year likely because of issues with injuries. If you don't think that our training staff and doctors looked him over before they made that decision you are wrong.

 

Truth be told - they very likely weren't going to franchise him because it ties up a lot of the cap and he was going to hit the open market. He seems like the type of player who wants his money now, In exchange for 1 year of his service we would POSSIBLY get a 3rd round comp pick in 2019. Instead we got a 2018 2nd round pick, and Gaines who is currently starting at CB.

 

I look at it like this - we weren't a WR away from a super bowl this year. If you don't see him with the organization in 2018 and beyond... it makes sense to maximize value in your rebuild.

 

They didn't pick up the option because they had injury concerns. The team dr's probably looked it over and were unsure if he'd have ongoing issues.

 

The trade came later when we received an offer to build the team quicker for hopefully long term success.

 

 

5th year extension negotiations = "Sammy, we picked up your option".

 

And your assertion about the doctors was proven to be either incorrect or proof that our doctors suck after last night.

You never trade a star - period. All of these, "we weren't going to pay him" arguments go out the window when the Bills had him under control for AT LEAST 3 more years. It wasn't his decision, it was theirs. That can't be missed here. He could have played under the 5th year option and the tag twice.

 

 

Eichel heading the same direction? The Sabres are talking about talking. I wonder if he will be injury prone and greedy too?

[Kirby Jackson]

4 including this one.

Touche (I was already counting it but you are right). That is a more accurate assessment.

[Doc]

Narratives like Sammy's poor first 2 games meant nothing and one good game mean he's going to put up monster numbers this year? Like I've been saying, the season is a marathon. We'll see where things shake out ultimately.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

5th year extension negotiations = "Sammy, we picked up your option".

 

And your assertion about the doctors was proven to be either incorrect or proof that our doctors suck after last night.

 

 

 

Eichel heading the same direction? The Sabres are talking about talking. I wonder if he will be injury prone and greedy too?

It's just pathetic. When you have stars you cater to them. They are the people that are hardest to replace. Call it the Steelers model if you will. They pay all of their stars and worry about everyone else after.

[JM2009]

Narratives like Sammy's poor first 2 games meant nothing and one good game mean he's going to put up monster numbers this year? Like I've been saying, the season is a marathon. We'll see where things shake out ultimately.

Narratives thinking his loss didn't hurt this offense is one to think about too. Because it did.

[4merper4mer]

Narratives like Sammy's poor first 2 games meant nothing and one good game mean he's going to put up monster numbers this year? Like I've been saying, the season is a marathon. We'll see where things shake out ultimately.

 

 

Did you watch the game? Is he suddenly going to lose his skills?

 

If Goff gets hurt and they get Pee Wee Herman off the FA wire, then he won't catch another pass all year. Would that mean he has lost talent? Monster numbers or not we decided we needed to get rid of a guy with that level of talent and that was a BAD decision.

Edited September 22, 2017 by 4merper4mer

[JM2009]

 

 

Did you watch the game? Is he suddenly going to lose his skills?

 

If Goff gets hurt and they get Pee Wee Herman off the FA wire them he won't catch another pass all year. Would that mean he has lost talent? Monster numbers or not we decided we needed to get rid of a guy with that level of talent and that was a BAD decision.

I agree.