Why dont the Bills Audible?

[MAJBobby]

I saw and have been verifiied by other Bills players Luke Kuechly knew exactly what was going in on almost every play. So i started thinking when was the last time we actually audibled alot instead of running just the play right into an already knowing Defense.

 

I could really only come up with all the way back to the Gailey offense that there was a decent amount of changing the play at the line.

 

Kinda hard to run any offense when you do exactly what is called and the freaking defense is calling out.

 

Is the the Conservative Offensive Coaching the Bills have had since Gailey? It cant just be on the QB because it goes on longer than just this QB

Edited September 20, 2017 by MAJBobby

[fridge]

Three different OC's have refused to let Tyrod call an audible... It's not like Dennison was restricting Peyton Manning from changing plays at the line.

[MAJBobby]

Three different OC's have refused to let Tyrod call an audible... It's not like Dennison was restricting Peyton Manning from changing plays at the line.

I am talking even longer than this QB.

 

EJ not allowed

Orton was really restricted (allowed to flip plays)

 

Gailey was the last one. And also the last one that was not a Run First coach.

 

It is interesting we hire all these conservative run first and play defense coaches and boom all of the sudden no audibles at the line.

[C.Biscuit97]

Because we have had bad qbs that we don't trust.

 

But yeah, if you don't trust a NFL qb to audible, they probably shouldn't be starting for you. This isn't college where they need to look at the sidelines every play.

[Fadingpain]

I would suggest the coaching staffs (even the inept ones) know more about football than most of us here.

 

If they are "ordering" Tyrod or his predecessors to avoid audibles, it is likely due to one reason: they don't feel the QB is capable of reading a defense, and calling a new play to move out of a D's strength and into their weakness.

 

A few years ago, Tom Brady was commenting on a given play and he said he hated it b/c it was a wasted play. He said he never wastes plays. What he meant was that if you are a good QB and know what you are doing, you should know what play has been called, know how the D is set up, and know that play will be "wasted" or ineffective if run, b/c the D happens to have the right defense in place for that play.

So Tom changes out of those mistakes before they happen. Repeat the process many times over the course of a game and season and you have a very successful offense.

 

So 1 reason why NE is so good, according to Brady, is they don't waste plays.

I would assume Tyrod and the Bills waste plays on every possession of every game.

[fridge]

I am talking even longer than this QB.

 

EJ not allowed

Orton was really restricted (allowed to flip plays)

 

Gailey was the last one. And also the last one that was not a Run First coach.

 

It is interesting we hire all these conservative run first and play defense coaches and boom all of the sudden no audibles at the line.

 

I agree that it's weird, but I remember Orton calling a few audibles. I don't know if he was restricted for any reason other than coming in on short notice.

 

Regarding EJ, he was definitely restricted, and it was a huge issue during his rookie year. He answered this question that offseason and I remember people starting to think Hackett was more the issue:

 

Q: Tell us about the plays you’re running. Were you able to change the plays last year? Do you audible now?

A: Well, there’s never been a time where coach has said ‘No, you can’t audible.’ I was able to audible, but a lot of times I just haven’t needed to. I know in the running game, Coach [Hackett] has us checking in and out of plays, run to pass, pass to run. All of these things have come with my maturity within the offense.

Q: Will you have more freedom this year? Or did you have all the freedom you needed?

A: I think so. I think Coach Hackett is going to put everything on my plate that we need to win. I don’t think we will be limited at all in terms of play calling, but at the end of the day it’s all about execution. You can go out there with 20 plays, if you execute those plays well you’re going to win the game. Football’s not that hard, you just got to execute and make plays.

Q: Are you more likely now to say “Coach, I don’t like that play.” Or “Coach, maybe that’s not a good idea” with certain plays?

A: Well, I would never say something was a bad idea, but I think it’s just about having rapport with your coach. Sometimes, there’s going to be plays that I don’t like, and I’ll tell him. I know there are a few plays that we came into this week in minicamp, I wanted them to be clean, I wanted to have sharp reads, and I told him, “Hey, I don’t like that play.” and he took them out.

Q: How much different will it be when training camp starts? Will there be plays that won’t be there that he didn't like?

A: I think so, a lot of the plays we put in are new, so some new formations or those kind of things, to throw some wrinkles at a defense, instead of them just looking at us as a vanilla offense, running this way then that way, giving defenses different looks is going to help us. There are still a few things that we’re playing around with, but of the things he’s put in I like them a lot.

Source

[MAJBobby]

What is maddening is watching Luke Kuechly correctly line up defenses call out protections like he was in the huddle. I get film study but damn how do you think you are going to he effective with one hand behind your back.

 

Then it renders any scheme useless and it is back to vanilla and just beat your guy. Hmmm have heard that a ton over the years we have to win out 1v1s. Yes you do. But it makes it a lot harder when the defense knows exactly what you are about to do

[Fadingpain]

Because we have had bad qbs that we don't trust.

 

But yeah, if you don't trust a NFL qb to audible, they probably shouldn't be starting for you. This isn't college where they need to look at the sidelines every play.

I would define "BAD" in this context as meaning "not smart enough to effectively call audibles."

 

Who watched HBO's "HARD KNOCKS" this year?

 

There was a scene in one of the episodes where Jameis Winston was in a hotel room at training camp, at night, with a couple other players who I guess were rookies.

 

They were almost fake lining up in the hotel room like they were going to run a play. Winston was basically explaining the Xs and Os of football to one of the other guys, asking him (as I recall) who the Mike is on the play, what that means, and what you should do as a result, or something like that.

 

You could just see in the face of the other player that this was all over his head, he is rather dumb by nature, and he was not really grasping what Winston was trying to teach him.

 

The NFL is likely full of guys who don't really understand football, despite playing it professionally and being blessed with huge athletic talent and temples of human bodies.

 

When this happens at the QB position, you don't have a very good QB in today's game.

[BuffaloHokie13]

A lot of the time 2-3 plays get called in the huddle and the one that the O runs is determined based on what the D is showing.

 

This is based on 2015-2016. I'd have to ask if it changed much this year.

Edited September 20, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13

[GunnerBill]

Dennison's offense isn't big on audibles normally (it was a real source of tension with Manning) and Tyrod isn't a big reader of defenses who naturally sees things at the line.

[MAJBobby]

A lot of the time 2-3 plays get called in the huddle and the one that the O runs is determined based on what the D is showing.

Not here. Seriously Luke was putting the defense in the exact position to make a play. He didnt guess wrong at all.

 

And if there are 2-3 it typically is the same play flipped to other side. Thats not an audible either.

[4_kidd_4]

They could at least allow the Trent Edwards patented "double-horn hand motion here comes a run play" audible.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Not here. Seriously Luke was putting the defense in the exact position to make a play. He didnt guess wrong at all.

 

And if there are 2-3 it typically is the same play flipped to other side. Thats not an audible either.

Past 2 years has typically been 1 run, 1 pass with the option to flip. Sometimes inside run & outside run, sometimes more.

[Fadingpain]

What is maddening is watching Luke Kuechly correctly line up defenses call out protections like he was in the huddle. I get film study but damn how do you think you are going to he effective with one hand behind your back.

 

Then it renders any scheme useless and it is back to vanilla and just beat your guy. Hmmm have heard that a ton over the years we have to win out 1v1s. Yes you do. But it makes it a lot harder when the defense knows exactly what you are about to do

You aren't going to be effective with 1 hand tied behind your back. Look at our offense in that game! It wasn't effective.

 

Good defensive coordinators are going to see Tyrod's limited skill set and quickly figure out his tendencies.

 

You then scheme to directly address those tendencies and gamble that you aren't going to get burned by not defending his weaknesses.

 

You end up (if you are the Bills coaching staff) simply asking Tyrod to "play it safe" and "don't lose the game for us."

 

When he avoids 3 turnovers on 3 successive possessions and a pick 6, he is going what you ask of him, despite not generating any offense or scoring points

 

The next thing you know, the OC is saying "Tyrod kept us in the game" after the game!

 

It's the world we are stuck in for now and why I'd love to see a QB change, as that likely only sets us up for an ever higher draft pick. So we can get a QB good enough to catapult us to a higher level than what Tyrod is capable of.

Dennison's offense isn't big on audibles normally (it was a real source of tension with Manning) and Tyrod isn't a big reader of defenses who naturally sees things at the line.

That is to say, he is incapable of doing it.

 

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, to name 2, have made a career out of that skill.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Dennison's offense isn't big on audibles normally (it was a real source of tension with Manning) and Tyrod isn't a big reader of defenses who naturally sees things at the li

Depressing, one more tool in the toolbox that we dont use.

 

My kids 7th grade QB can audible for Gods sake.

 

Or is it that Dennison has such an all time proven master system and great play caller he calls it right, even as the Defense makes pre snap adjustments.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Not here. Seriously Luke was putting the defense in the exact position to make a play. He didnt guess wrong at all.

 

And if there are 2-3 it typically is the same play flipped to other side. Thats not an audible either.

 

There doesn't need to be that many audibles... switching out of an I formation would be one i would stress. You can zone run out a pistol or shotgun, and with a short QB he can see better with deeper drops.

 

I also felt like the snap count this past game was getting jumped all over as well. Need to mix it up more.

[OhDozeBills]

I saw and have been verifiied by other Bills players Luke Kuechly knew exactly what was going in on almost every play. So i started thinking when was the last time we actually audibled alot instead of running just the play right into an already knowing Defense.

 

I could really only come up with all the way back to the Gailey offense that there was a decent amount of changing the play at the line.

 

Kinda hard to run any offense when you do exactly what is called and the freaking defense is calling out.

 

Is the the Conservative Offensive Coaching the Bills have had since Gailey? It cant just be on the QB because it goes on longer than just this QB

Coaching in the NFL IMO is underrated. If Luke knew what we were running every play, RICO didn't do his job. Sure, opposing teams will know some plays because you can't just change the whole playbook every week, but RICO did nothing to change things up and keep their defense off balance. It still blows my mind that a coach was allowed to come into an organization that's lead the NFL in rushing for 2 straight seasons and change the scheme. How do you review tape from this team last year, watch Richie pulling/getting out in space opening huge holes and say, hmmm, I think we need to change this to zone blocking!!!

[MAJBobby]

You aren't going to be effective with 1 hand tied behind your back. Look at our offense in that game! It wasn't effective.

 

Good defensive coordinators are going to see Tyrod's limited skill set and quickly figure out his tendencies.

 

You then scheme to directly address those tendencies and gamble that you aren't going to get burned by not defending his weaknesses.

 

You end up (if you are the Bills coaching staff) simply asking Tyrod to "play it safe" and "don't lose the game for us."

 

When he avoids 3 turnovers on 3 successive possessions and a pick 6, he is going what you ask of him, despite not generating any offense or scoring points

 

The next thing you know, the OC is saying "Tyrod kept us in the game" after the game!

 

It's the world we are stuck in for now and why I'd love to see a QB change, as that likely only sets us up for an ever higher draft pick. So we can get a QB good enough to catapult us to a higher level than what Tyrod is capable of.

 

That is to say, he is incapable of doing it.

 

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, to name 2, have made a career out of that skill.

Ok and we have been there since Gailey. You think it gonna change next year with a rookie QB? You think they are giving him the keys to an offense and say ho ahead make your checks at the line?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Ok and we have been there since Gailey. You think it gonna change next year with a rookie QB? You think they are giving him the keys to an offense and say ho ahead make your checks at the line?

Feels like we're absent motion sometimes too, and we always line up our receivers wide.

[SoTier]

I am talking even longer than this QB.

 

EJ not allowed

Orton was really restricted (allowed to flip plays)

 

Gailey was the last one. And also the last one that was not a Run First coach.

 

It is interesting we hire all these conservative run first and play defense coaches and boom all of the sudden no audibles at the line.

 

Gailey was an offensive coach. Unfortunately he didn't know/care much about defense and left that up to his less than scintillating DCs which was too bad because he did a lot with the very limited offensive talent he had because -- shock of shocks! -- he adapted his offensive schemes to fit what the players he did have did best.

 

None of the others have been offensive minded coaches, and one was new to being a HC in the NFL, one was a buffoon who probably made his reputation as a defensive genius on Mike Pettine's coattails, and the third appears to be the spiritual godson of Dick Jauron. Maybe they thought/think audibles were/are dirty words or they were sleeping during those coaching meetings when they were discussed.