Final Play--- drop or bad throw poll

[BuffaloHokie13]

It was right in front of me and the catch was certainly worse than the throw. That's a play that an NFL receiver makes over 90% of the time. The throw wasn't perfect by any stretch but the catch was worse. You make a better throw than that maybe half of the time. Zay crawls in the end zone if he hangs on.

Huh, you must've been really close to where I was sitting. I was row 12 next to the tunnel, end zone side.

[dickleyjones]

Or Carolina is a good defense. If they shut our run down we are in trouble. That's what will happen.

 

You could but he tripped.

 

It was basically just a Bills bad luck play. No trip and it's a touchdown.

that's what i saw as well. when he dug in during his first move, he got tripped up and was never on sound footing from there. so close!

[Kirby Jackson]

Huh, you must've been really close to where I was sitting. I was row 12 next to the tunnel, end zone side.

I was by the moon but right there. It was a straight line down. You could see it develop and everyone erupted when it hit his hands and then crumbled.

[jethro_tull]

off the finger tips of the receiver who was in the midst of a fully extended horizontal dive- he did not have an inch to spare so to speak. in other words a low percentage catch by even the best receivers.

since the receiver was wide open there was no reason to make him dive for the ball in the first place.

[grb]

Double digit Tolbert touches is losing football.

 

Not to thrash a moldy horse carcass, but I think a roster spot for Jonathan Williams might have been more valuable than, say, Taiwan Jones. Williams would have provided a different kind of relief for McCoy over Tolbert. Cutting JW still seems like a strange move to me.......

[B Fan in LA]

This is one of those rare situations where if Tyrod had hung onto the ball a split second longer, he might have been able

to adjust to Zay tripping over his feet and zagging out of his route. But Tyrod was well within the area he needed to put the ball

in order for Zay to catch and score. It wasn't a dropped ball, it was a trip and lose balance, then try to recover ball. IMHO.

[3rdand12]

 

I'm one of those guys who takes it into consideration when a receiver's body is contorted like Regan MacNeil in order to get his hands on the ball.

thats scary . don't bring that name up again.

flirting with the D word

[Kirby Jackson]

This is one of those rare situations where if Tyrod had hung onto the ball a split second longer, he might have been able

to adjust to Zay tripping over his feet and zagging out of his route. But Tyrod was well within the area he needed to put the ball

in order for Zay to catch and score. It wasn't a dropped ball, it was a trip and lose balance, then try to recover ball. IMHO.

Maybe that is a better way to put it. The point was that Zay is the one that didn't make the play. If he doesn't trip I fully expect him to make it. That's an easy play for an NFL receiver (and one that I still think will be good). It's unlucky but a bad play by Zay.

 

It's just funny because the people that were so set on Tyrod to fail are trying to point to this. He threw the ball where it needed to be after carrying that garbage offense down the field. Tyrod is an average NFL starter (17th rated right now). There are WAY bigger problems on that offense than him. Until those are fixed it wouldn't matter in Peyton Manning in his prime was under center. The blocking is awful, the run design is terrible and the pass catchers couldn't get open if they were being covered by Chris Watson. The coaching on that side of the ball doesn't inspire confidence.

[grb]

Interesting. I've assumed it was a front pylon throw which Taylor cheated inside to lead away from the coverage. Jones ran a slightly shallow route, didn't track the pass until the last split second, and made a clumsy play on the ball. With that scenario even the tiniest adjustment by Jones to the pass makes an easy catch crossing the goal line. But some people here think it was a back pylon route. If so, Taylor's pass was perfect and the route Jones ran even worse. Has anyone confirmed it one way or another?

Edited September 20, 2017 by grb

[Augie]

Maybe that is a better way to put it. The point was that Zay is the one that didn't make the play. If he doesn't trip I fully expect him to make it. That's an easy play for an NFL receiver (and one that I still think will be good). It's unlucky but a bad play by Zay.

It's just funny because the people that were so set on Tyrod to fail are trying to point to this. He threw the ball where it needed to be after carrying that garbage offense down the field. Tyrod is an average NFL starter (17th rated right now). There are WAY bigger problems on that offense than him. Until those are fixed it wouldn't matter in Peyton Manning in his prime was under center. The blocking is awful, the run design is terrible and the pass catchers couldn't get open if they were being covered by Chris Watson. The coaching on that side of the ball doesn't inspire confidence.

There is A LOT of truth in there. I like Tyrod, but he'll never be much more than average. I do LOVE that he was quick to step up and back Zay. At first I wondered if it was backdoor finger pointing (I regret that my mind works that way), but I buy that it was legit now. And I love that.

[3rdand12]

 

Yep. It wasn't a drop, being actually an exceptional effort at a catch. Unfortunately that effort was required by Jones' own mistakes. Look, draw a straight line to the pylon and Taylor's pass was a little bit inside, Jones' route a little bit outside. But Taylor's throw led the play away from the cornerback and into the end zone. Jones' route angled towards the sideline and coverage. But that just set-up the real problem.

 

Jones didn't track the pass until the absolute last second, and then made an extremely bad play on the ball. The result was a half-stutter-step and twisting jump straight up. If he had just run it thru the pass drops right over his shoulder. Not to pick on the man, but Watkins makes that catch ten out of ten times and it looks easy every time. Run a quick out and, yes, you expect the ball right on the hands. But with a forty yard pass, I think most league receivers aren't surprised if they have to tweak the end of the route a few feet. And we're talking about the smallest of adjustment here. After all, Jones ran a too-shallow route, had no idea where the pass was until the last possible second, totally misplayed the ball - and yet still it grazes his hand. It was a rookie mistake, no more.

I did mention this at the time of the play. Without your detail though.

The wr needs to turn sooner. A long ball like that is going to be placed (optimistically) where the Rec has the best chance to catch it. inside outside over under.

 

some fine posts here.

Jones made some mistakes and then made great effort to recover. TT is no Saint.

Jones will improve.

i liked the play call and effort

 

They are a really good defense but everyone is a good defense when you can't make a play 10 yards from the LOS. The weapons are the biggest problem on this team (besides maybe offensive coaching). We replaced playmakers and home run threats with Andre Holmes and Mike Tolbert. Double digit Tolbert touches is losing football.

oh we are screwed on offense this year especially if the O line play does not tighten up and quickly.

 

That i will hold on Beane. Not cooll

[Magox]

This is clearly a play that they were both at fault. Just about equally.

[3rdand12]

Interesting. I've assumed it was a front pylon throw which Taylor cheated inside to lead away from the coverage. Jones ran a slightly shallow route, didn't track the pass until the last split second, and made a clumsy play on the ball. With that scenario even the tiniest adjustment by Jones to the pass makes an easy catch crossing the goal line. But some people here think it was a back pylon route. If so, Taylor's pass was perfect and the route Jones ran even worse. As anyone confirmed it one way or another?

I was on board with your first take. Tyrods response with the media and Jones response to the play lean towards the former

Edited September 20, 2017 by 3rdand12

[Shaw66]

Yep. It wasn't a drop, being actually an exceptional effort at a catch. Unfortunately that effort was required by Jones' own mistakes. Look, draw a straight line to the pylon and Taylor's pass was a little bit inside, Jones' route a little bit outside. But Taylor's throw led the play away from the cornerback and into the end zone. Jones' route angled towards the sideline and coverage. But that just set-up the real problem.

Jones didn't track the pass until the absolute last second, and then made an extremely bad play on the ball. The result was a half-stutter-step and twisting jump straight up. If he had just run it thru the pass drops right over his shoulder. Not to pick on the man, but Watkins makes that catch ten out of ten times and it looks easy every time. Run a quick out and, yes, you expect the ball right on the hands. But with a forty yard pass, I think most league receivers aren't surprised if they have to tweak the end of the route a few feet. And we're talking about the smallest of adjustment here. After all, Jones ran a too-shallow route, had no idea where the pass was until the last possible second, totally misplayed the ball - and yet still it grazes his hand. It was a rookie mistake, no more.

 

This is right on the money. Thanks.

 

The other way you know that Jones screwed up and Taylor didn't is that NO ONE from the team, particularly Taylor, is saying Taylor put the ball in the wrong place. Jones ran the wrong route or, at the very least, made a terrible adjustment to the ball. As he played it, it was a REALLY difficult catch, but his job is to make it an easy catch before the ball arrives. He didn't do his job.

[3rdand12]

This is clearly a play that they were both at fault. Just about equally.

And we should all be fine to leave it there. That's what Coach would do !

it was hella exciting though. Was it not ?

[MAJBobby]

I voted both but if the route called for a cut to the back pilon (I had assumed the front pilon) then the throw was good. I played baseball not football so I don't know how this gets coached up. Front pilon made sense to me because this took the WR further away from the safety and although he was pretty much out of the picture you don't know how close he will be to covering when you call the play. I don't know either whether the QB and the WR are to adjust the route by reading the DB coverage as the play develops (and wound up reading it differently?).

Not sure about the alleged contact with Davis. I see Davis flinch but I wonder whether he was reacting to the QB or otherwise reacting to the action in front of him. I see Zay take a short stride but it happens two strides after he passes Davis.

I think it liket was a front Pylon Corner to maintain that outside leverage on the safety. A more skinny Corner route (back Pylon) he loses all that outside leverage.

 

No ok really will know without the playcall but when he stumbled out of his cut he seemed to focus on that front pylon immediately

[Shaw66]

This is clearly a play that they were both at fault. Just about equally.

Do you know each player's assignment on the play. How do you know who's at fault from watching the play?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

They are a really good defense but everyone is a good defense when you can't make a play 10 yards from the LOS. The weapons are the biggest problem on this team (besides maybe offensive coaching). We replaced playmakers and home run threats with Andre Holmes and Mike Tolbert. Double digit Tolbert touches is losing football.

Can't argue.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think it liket was a front Pylon Corner to maintain that outside leverage on the safety. A more skinny Corner route (back Pylon) he loses all that outside leverage.

 

No ok really will know without the playcall but when he stumbled out of his cut he seemed to focus on that front pylon immediately

Then didnt run there.

[grb]

There are WAY bigger problems on that offense than him.

 

The Carolina game was horrible to watch, offense-wise. But it is rather bizarre to see people choking with rage against Taylor about a game where the Bills' running backs rushed for fourteen yards. You can say it's because the Panthers loaded the box (ie : Taylor's fault), but you'd be wrong. According to NFL NextGen Stats, McCoy faced eight or more men in the box on 25-percent of his carries against the Carolina, which was actually a below average percentage for NFL running backs on Sunday. Carolina's front seven is just that good. OK; you can say that : McCoy's 8yds & 0.8 yds per attempt is understandable because he ran into a buzz-saw of a defense. Yet Taylor somehow doesn't even get that as a secondary consideration.

 

Finally, you can say McCoy has done a lot for the Bills, so you cut him some slack. But that's the most bizarre of all. Because regardless of TT's limitations or long-term status with the team, he has played hard and made plays. And in the Carolina game? He was the only person on the offense who came remotely close to providing a spark. Hell, he was 80% of the Bills' rushing and 93% of their total offense.

Edited September 20, 2017 by grb