Final Play--- drop or bad throw poll

[BuffaloHokie13]

That was TD ball placement combined with a 1st and goal from the 3 route. I am guessing as to the intent but:

 

0% on the throw. That was perfect for the TD.

 

5% on the catch. A spinning, off-balance, fingertip, circus catch is far from "drop."

 

95% on the route. Headed for the sideline and looking over the right shoulder and then spinning while stumbling vs. looking over the left shoulder while headed toward the EZ/pylon.

Pretty much

[Magox]

Mike Glennon got $15M and Osweiler $18m the year before. If you don't think that Tyrod is pushing $20M you aren't paying attention to the landscape of the league. I did the QB comparison in the other thread but we can stack Tyrod, Glennon and Osweiler side-by-side and would be happy to hear the argument as to why those guys got more? Worse records, less scores, more turnovers, less yards and less playmaking ability. You think that the guy that is best in all of that will get less than they did? Not happening

 

The Jags, Cardinals, Jets, 49ers, Bills, Browns, Redskins, are all possibilities off the top of my head.

 

Yes and they both have been absolute busts. So is it possible that some sucker would pay $20M a year, yes because as I noted all it takes is one team. But is he worth it and is it likely he would get that? I would say no.

[Luxy312]

I've watched over 20 games played by Taylor so far. Certainly not every game he's played, but an awful lot of them. This throw wasn't a lot different than many throws that I've seen. Here are the characteristics that I see:

1. He doesn't "throw" receivers open. Rarely will you see a pass that leaves his hand while a receiver is still covered in a pattern.
2. The passes that are occasionally in the proverbial bread basket are usually guys that aren't moving. Typically busted coverage or a hole in a zone scheme.
3. When guys are covered and are moving, he still throws away from the defender even if that means throwing behind the receiver.

Zay Jones route was clearly a flat to the sideline, designed to either get the first out of bounds or get in the end zone. Taylor threw the pass high and behind him, going away from the defender. It's typical. Throw that pass a second sooner (when Jones was still covered tight) and it's probably a touchdown. I continue to want to believe that he can "turn the corner" or "be the guy". The reality for me is that he cannot. We have seen all that we're going to see from him. His best days are 220 yards passing and 50 yards rushing for a couple scores. That's when the running game is getting it done. Many of us were expecting to find gold and now our convincing ourselves that the gray metal we found is that. It's not.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Yes and they both have been absolute busts. So is it possible that some sucker would pay $20M a year, yes because as I noted all it takes is one team. But is he worth it and is it likely he would get that? I would say no.

My guess is Arizona. He fits what Arians wants, lives out there and they have a veteran team. My guess would be like 2 years, $36M guaranateed. Just a guess though.

[TheBrownBear]

Neither. Tyrod had to throw that ball inside to lead Zay away from the sideline and the underneath coverage. Zay seemed to stumble or slow a bit which made it a very difficult catch. Instinct is to always lay blame but sometimes things just don't sync up. It is what it is.

[Mad Mike]

I say it was a bad throw. Looks like Zay didn't run the best route, but we all know TT waits until the receiver is open to throw the ball, so he should have seen ZJ's route and hit him for the TD. (He still could/should have caught it.)

[grb]

I say it was a bad throw. Looks like Zay didn't run the best route, but we all know TT waits until the receiver is open to throw the ball, so he should have seen ZJ's route and hit him for the TD. (He still could/should have caught it.)

 

Geez ..... Sometimes I feel like we're drowning in clichés here.

 

(1) "We all know TT waits until the receiver is open ..." Except : No one waits until a receiver is open to throw a forty yard pass.

 

(2) Above we see this gem : "(Taylor) doesn't throw receivers open" Except : That's exactly what he did this play. He led the receiver away from the coverage and into the endzone. All it required was a microscopic adjustment to the route Jones was running. Not, mind you, the route he was supposed to be running - presumably to the front pylon - because then the adjustment would have been even smaller.

 

(3) I wonder what people think receivers running a deep route typically do. Here's a hint : How many times have you seen a receiver slow-up because the pass is coming in short? That's because he looked back and adjusted to the incoming pass. If you run a sideline out, you cut and expect the ball in your hands. But if you're running forty or fifty yards downfield you make your route precise as possible (Jones fail), you get your head back to track the pass (Jones fail), and then you make your play on the ball (Jones fail). ZJ's route was too shallow, he was clueless where the pass was until it was already on top of him, and he made an incredibly clumsy play on the ball. If you take a half-stutter step, jump straight-up, and the ball grazes between your hands, then I guarantee the pass is sitting pretty if you just run it through. All this is Receiver 101, but nobody blames Jones for a rookie miscue.

 

(4) You know who should take some blame tho? Those responsible for that rookie not being an alternate Three playing in the slot - with Holmes, and behind Sammie Watkins & Anquan Boldin.

Edited September 20, 2017 by grb

[yungmack]

Just want to say, Kirby's posts on the topic are superb.

[Figster]

Both

 

Peterman makes this throw 9 times out of 10 in my humble opinion...

[Wayne Cubed]

Both

 

Peterman makes this throw 9 times out of 10 in my humble opinion...

Based on what? He didn't make a throw over 20 yards in the preseason. That throw was 40 yards and a deep out, the true test of the strength of a QBs arm. I seriously doubt he completes that throw 6/10 times.

[Figster]

Based on what? He didn't make a throw over 20 yards in the preseason. That throw was 40 yards and a deep out, the true test of the strength of a QBs arm. I seriously doubt he completes that throw 6/10 times.

Based on Petermans accuracy

[Mad Mike]

 

Geez ..... Sometimes I feel like we're drowning in clichés here.

 

(1) "We all know TT waits until the receiver is open ..." Except : No one waits until a receiver is open to throw a forty yard pass.

 

(2) Above we see this gem : "(Taylor) doesn't throw receivers open" Except : That's exactly what he did this play. He led the receiver away from the coverage and into the endzone. All it required was a microscopic adjustment to the route Jones was running. Not, mind you, the route he was supposed to be running - presumably to the front pylon - because then the adjustment would have been even smaller.

 

(3) I wonder what people think receivers running a deep route typically do. Here's a hint : How many times have you seen a receiver slow-up because the pass is coming in short? That's because he looked back and adjusted to the incoming pass. If you run a sideline out, you cut and expect the ball in your hands. But if you're running forty or fifty yards downfield you make your route precise as possible (Jones fail), you get your head back to track the pass (Jones fail), and then you make your play on the ball (Jones fail). ZJ's route was too shallow, he was clueless where the pass was until it was already on top of him, and he made an incredibly clumsy play on the ball. If you take a half-stutter step, jump straight-up, and the ball grazes between your hands, then I guarantee the pass is sitting pretty if you just run it through. All this is Receiver 101, but nobody blames Jones for a rookie miscue.

 

(4) You know who should take some blame tho? Those responsible for that rookie not being an alternate Three playing in the slot - with Holmes, and behind Sammie Watkins & Anquan Boldin.

 

Wow, I didn't know this poll required detailed scientific analysis from other parties. I thought we could just vote and give our reason for voting this way. Next time we have a poll I will contact you first on how to vote.

[reddogblitz]

The wildcard you're forgetting is that NFL executives are awful at their jobs. I think many GMs still honestly believe height and arm strength are the two most important qualities in a QB. They think you can teach all that other stuff later. It basically never works but that's how they think about it.

 

Good point. This is exactly why I don't buy into the whole tank thing. I have ZERO confidence that Bills FO will pick the right guy. I hold out a bigger hope that somehow Coach McDermott can somehow motivate the guys we have to play better and learn how to win these close games. The difference between making playoffs and not has less to do with QB passing stats and a lot more to do with team mates coming together and somehow someway winning the close games.

 

Thats all the Fish did better than us last year. They beat us and the Clowns in OT. Meanwhile we blew our chances in very winnable games like Miami and Seattle.

 

But yeah,keep hoping that McBeane is a draft hoss and will NEXT YEAR get us that golden armed franchise QB, and here we go.

[HappyDays]

Good point. This is exactly why I don't buy into the whole tank thing. I have ZERO confidence that Bills FO will pick the right guy. I hold out a bigger hope that somehow Coach McDermott can somehow motivate the guys we have to play better and learn how to win these close games. The difference between making playoffs and not has less to do with QB passing stats and a lot more to do with team mates coming together and somehow someway winning the close games.

 

Thats all the Fish did better than us last year. They beat us and the Clowns in OT. Meanwhile we blew our chances in very winnable games like Miami and Seattle.

 

But yeah,keep hoping that McBeane is a draft hoss and will NEXT YEAR get us that golden armed franchise QB, and here we go.

I am not nearly as confident as most fans that the Bills are all set to get their franchise QB next draft. Even when you're talking about #1 overall picks it's about a 50/50 shot. Everything below that the odds keep dropping. Personally I feel that we should keep Tyrod next year, draft the best QB we can with the first pick we have, and use the other picks to build the team. I am not a believer in the "sell the farm" method of acquiring a QB. It doesn't work out more often than not and I have no clue what traits Beane looks for in his QBs. It's entirely possible he's as bad at picking QBs as Whaley was, and then trading up for one would be a colossal mistake.

[Antonio]

Neither one... Bad rout, Zay should have gone to the pylon, not to the sideline at the 4/5 yard line...

 

Doing that he would of had a better angle to the ball and an easy TD catch.

[grb]

Based on Petermans accuracy

 

All we've seen from Nate is preseason play, almost exclusively against (and with) the 2s & 3s.

But please remember : His preseason results were a 54.4% completion percentage for 5.4 yards per attempt. His longest pass was 28 yds long.

To contrast, Taylor facing a brutal defense Sunday in a regular season game completed 68% for 5.0 yards per attempt.

Personally, I think Peterman facing Carolina - with McCoy gaining .8 yards per attempt & the running backs getting 14 yards all day - would have been an unmitigated disaster.

Edited September 20, 2017 by grb

[jrober38]

Zay Jones route was clearly a flat to the sideline, designed to either get the first out of bounds or get in the end zone.

 

Nope. It clearly wasn't...

[Scott7975]

Based on Petermans accuracy

And one of the knocks on Peterman is noodle arm. He also didn't show much accuracy in preseason.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Scott7975

[Billsmovinup]

Bad route. Ive heard and read in a couple of places, Donald Jones included, that he should have run that route up not out based on the coverage. I think a poster in this forum even pointed that out after the game Sunday. Would have been a somewhat tough grab but it was a catchable ball.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just want to say, Kirby's posts on the topic are superb.

Thanks Buddy!! I try to contribute value every so often.