xRUSHx Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 I think it's unrealistic to expect an OC to design a system around a guy like Taylor if he's thinking long-term. I agree, in fact why didn't they just keep Lynn then if the owner wanted to stay with a Taylor made offense that wasn't good enough to hit the playoffs either season it was made just for him. Truth is in my opinion is Taylor made system won against the bad teams but the good teams knew how to stop it, make him be a QB.
PolishDave Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 He was restricted calling audibles. He didn't have absolute freedom. It says it right there. Matt Ryan in Kyle Shanahan's offense was restricted in the audibles he could call. Sometimes it's an ego thing for OCs. I think people are assuming those comments from Taylor imply automatically that he absolutely has to run whatever play he's given and I really doubt that. I'm sure he has the freedom to check to a run play to a pass play or a pass play to a run play if he absolutely must, but I'm also sure that Dennison generally wants the plays run he wants run. It's just a little goofy the way some people are presenting that as though it's proof that Taylor can't handle being an NFL QB. You are correct and Taylor was allowed to call audibles last year. He didn't call very many regardless. People are making an assumption that Taylor is too stupid to be allowed to call them. Maybe he is. Coaches aren't going to come out and say that even if they think it. However, I have a feeling that if Tyrod was that stupid and couldn't read defenses at all (as is being suggested) there is no way in hell he even gets a shot at starting in the NFL - especially not for 2 different head coaches and 3 different offensive coordinators. If you have watched him play the last 2 years, you have seen him making correct pre-snap decisions based on defenses at times. So it is not like he is oblivious to what the defense is doing.
BringBackOrton Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 Indefensible? Says random dude on a message board who has probably never even played the position before. Still so angry, I see. Someone pointed out Wentz as a guy consistently audibling from the time he got under center in the NFL, but does anyone really know if every other NFL QB can (coach's permission) and does (ability) audible consistently and effectively in and out of plays? Does Newton? It sure didn't look like it Sunday when he called a couple timeouts pretty clearly saying he couldn't hear the call in his helmet. Mariota? Prescott? Indefensible? Yeah, I don't think Taylor's alone there, bro. A bold strategy of playing devil's advocate and doing no leg-work to support your point, Oh. Wait, no that's just your MO.
Scott7975 Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 Falcons offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan discussed the team’s audible system on Wednesday. Under the former offensive coordinators Mike Mularkey and Dirk Koetter, Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan had wide-ranging audible authority. He has an audible option – to check a run into a pass or vice versa at the line of scrimmage – on maybe 50 percent of the plays, according to Shanahan. Because of the team’s outside zone running style, Shanahan is not afraid to run into eight-man fronts in order to keep a defense honest. “Not all of them,” Shanahan said when asked about Ryan’s audible authority. “A lot of them you do. You don’t want to get into that game all of the time. Then the sky is getting too bad. “Sometimes you need to run the ball into a bad look to slow down the (defensive) line. Sometimes you’re getting an eight-man front all game and if it’s all run-pass-check, you’re going to throw the ball every play. “If you do that, you’re going to have trouble blocking people. I would say on half of them he has a chance to do that. Some of them are just called as runs.”
transplantbillsfan Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 Are you unable to do some research? You are the one who implied he couldn't do it. You know him and you like him a lot but you fail to realize his understanding of the game is one of his strengths. He does it and does it freely. Do the research on your own and stop pointing fingers at other players without taking a second to look it up. nonononono... I never said he couldn't do it. 2 things come into play with audibling: 1) A player's ability cognitively to do it AND 2) A coach allowing the QB the freedom to audible in his offense You're jumping to conclusions about me saying something I never said. https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/platform/amp/2017/8/10/16128022/report-mariota-to-have-freedom-to-call-whatever-play-he-wants-in-2017-pre-snap Really hard to find that information. And there ya go, now he has it this year. Do all other QBs have the same "free reign?"
CommonCents Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 nonononono... I never said he couldn't do it. 2 things come into play with audibling: 1) A player's ability cognitively to do it AND 2) A coach allowing the QB the freedom to audible in his offense You're jumping to conclusions about me saying something I never said. And there ya go, now he has it this year. Do all other QBs have the same "free reign?" Do any other "capable" QB's have zero influence at the LOS, that is the question. What's that big word they use around here? Obfuscating?
transplantbillsfan Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 A bold strategy of playing devil's advocate and doing no leg-work to support your point, Oh. Wait, no that's just your MO. Why do I need to do the legwork? You're the one making the claim that it's indefensible that Taylor is restricted in terms of audibling. If you're making the claim, it's on you to prove that all NFL QBs are allowed to do it. Why would I do the leg-work you should do? Your making a sweeping claim with an underlying assumption that may or may not be true. And if it's not true, your entire claim of it being "indefensible" falls apart at the seams. I don't need to play devil's advocate. Make a stronger argument. Do any other "capable" QB's have zero influence at the LOS, that is the question. What's that big word they use around here? Obfuscating? Oh now gimme a break here. You think that the comments that have come out indicate that Taylor has zero influence at the LOS? That's a stretch, to say the least. Do any other "capable" QB's have zero influence at the LOS, that is the question. What's that big word they use around here? Obfuscating? See, this is where stupid hyperbolic statements annoy me. This is the tweet from Sal Capaccio regarding those comments... and you tell me if what you've said here isn't a little ridiculous: Tyrod Taylor asked how much freedom he has to audible: "We're getting to that." Says he doesn't have free rein but getting more each week
CommonCents Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 Why do I need to do the legwork? You're the one making the claim that it's indefensible that Taylor is restricted in terms of audibling. If you're making the claim, it's on you to prove that all NFL QBs are allowed to do it. Why would I do the leg-work you should do? Your making a sweeping claim with an underlying assumption that may or may not be true. And if it's not true, your entire claim of it being "indefensible" falls apart at the seams. I don't need to play devil's advocate. Make a stronger argument. Oh now gimme a break here. You think that the comments that have come out indicate that Taylor has zero influence at the LOS? That's a stretch, to say the least. See, this is where stupid hyperbolic statements annoy me. This is the tweet from Sal Capaccio regarding those comments... and you tell me if what you've said here isn't a little ridiculous: Tyrod Taylor asked how much freedom he has to audible: "We're getting to that." Says he doesn't have free rein but getting more each week Does it say he can call an audible? Or does it mean ocassionally they call two plays into his helmet and let him pick one? Watch the games. He makes zero adjustments. You pointed at MM and Newton and spun your wheels about how much control they had. I linked a rookie season to see if you took the bait and of course you ran with it. Then I linked the one which states he has "free reign" and you reply with "well there yah go!" ....are you having a conversation with yourself? You made a few lazy assumptions to distract from Taylor's own short comings instead of doing a little simple research. Now go look up Wentz and see what he had done at the LOS in his rookie year and now is 2nd. Making "ridiculous claims" then spinning in circles... I know MM! Oh apparently you didn't know that when he came to the NFL he hadn't taken a snap under center or used any verbage to call/execute plays as most the stuff at Oregon was single words or pictures! Or perhaps you did know and you threw out a dart hoping it would land. In a few years he has learned the entire QB position, Taylor still can't hack it in year 7. It's indefensible, as was said earlier. That goes for the staff and the player. I'm done here. Good luck spinning in circles further.
reddogblitz Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 When I saw it in real time, I thought it was TT's fault. I then saw a small .gif on the board and started thinking I was wrong and that it was all on Zay. I wanted to wait to see the all 22 before committing judgement. After seeing this...completely on TT. From when he releases the ball, it's totally on TT...regardless of the route. If anything, it would have been, "if Zay cut upfield it would have been a TD instead of a 1st down. I had to put the ball where he could catch it..." type of thing. TT did no such thing and had the time and opportunity to do so. Did he just throw to a spot because he couldn't see the WR???? Sorry TT, you need to go. Agreed. It would be nice if we could find a QB that could put the football on the receivers hands. What does that even mean? What do you expect him to do with pathetic pass protection like that? That was a 4 man rush and one guy got there almost unblocked. Yeah. Nice block by #79.
reddogblitz Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 When the route is a 7 yard pass and open. Want to see a 25 yard Dig ignored hold one i will get it Nice wide open Dig by Zayhttps://twitter.com/cover_1_/status/909918697401221121 I wish on plays like this he would step up and keep looking and throw. Pass blocking looked to be decent on that play.
billsredneck1 Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) i was for re-signing taylor as there were really no options other than the one the jets chose.....but after seeing peterman's poise,maturity and ability, if we go 2-4, i hope they make the switch while there is still some slight chance of meaningful games in december. i am much more at ease with him being 2nd as opposed to ej. i hope this kid gets a shot. unless tyrod can get us 4-2 or 5-1 and really looks like he's coming into form, i wanna see nate. it's probably fairly obvious that tyrod won't be here next year so why not. with this defense and putting nate in with matthews, jones, clay, oleary and bringing up brandon reilly....not to mention shady out of the backfield, i think they could run the wco like clockwork. justmyhumbleopine. Edited September 21, 2017 by billsredneck1
reddogblitz Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 https://mobile.twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/909946801775669248/video/1 There seems to be a possible TD pass to the WR on the right side of field. Safety looks like it was squatting for intermediate throw leaving Zay 1-1 and beating CB We got a first down on a pass into tight coverage over the middle. I didn't think Hotrod ever did that.
QB Bills Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 https://mobile.twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/909946801775669248/video/1 There seems to be a possible TD pass to the WR on the right side of field. Safety looks like it was squatting for intermediate throw leaving Zay 1-1 and beating CB Seven guys blocking 4 rushers. Nice job Dennison. Although you're right, he might have had what looks like Kaelen Clay (not Jones) up top for the TD.
transplantbillsfan Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) Does it say he can call an audible? Or does it mean ocassionally they call two plays into his helmet and let him pick one? Watch the games. He makes zero adjustments. You pointed at MM and Newton and spun your wheels about how much control they had. I linked a rookie season to see if you took the bait and of course you ran with it. Then I linked the one which states he has "free reign" and you reply with "well there yah go!" ....are you having a conversation with yourself? You made a few lazy assumptions to distract from Taylor's own short comings instead of doing a little simple research. Now go look up Wentz and see what he had done at the LOS in his rookie year and now is 2nd. Making "ridiculous claims" then spinning in circles... I know MM! Oh apparently you didn't know that when he came to the NFL he hadn't taken a snap under center or used any verbage to call/execute plays as most the stuff at Oregon was single words or pictures! Or perhaps you did know and you threw out a dart hoping it would land. In a few years he has learned the entire QB position, Taylor still can't hack it in year 7. It's indefensible, as was said earlier. That goes for the staff and the player. I'm done here. Good luck spinning in circles further. Does it say? Dude, go listen to what he says. This thread is a bit of a joke in itself with what it's devolved (though I don't think it ever started out very high in the first place) into in the way it largely takes things out of context. Is your username meant to be ironic? "Hey look! Here's a headline and I'm gonna take it for a fact and not look at any of the contacts at all!" But that's no surprise, it's just modern day America. Why should a sports message board be any different? Direct quote from Taylor in the same PC that got this headline: "We definitely have certain packages where I can audible." You asked if he said he can audible. He said he can audible. Misinformation and misrepresentation and flat out fallacies is what we're getting in this thread. And it's just sad. You said he had zero influence at the LOS. That's flat out wrong. Where the hell did the middle go? Why is everyone so goddamn extreme nowadays? Edited September 21, 2017 by transplantbillsfan
reddogblitz Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 If they felt TT was the long term answer - then you design an offense around him. If the plan is to build an offense and you plan on drafting a QB - then you design the offense and see what TT can do in it. If your offense sputters and your team losses a lot of games as a result like Sunday, there ain't gonna be no long term for him.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 No QB can.The Broncos did it with Plummer. Dennison was a coach. They went 13-3 and were third in offense. Thats the offense I thought we would run and we havent seen it at all.
GoBills808 Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 The Broncos did it with Plummer. Dennison was a coach. They went 13-3 and were third in offense. Thats the offense I thought we would run and we havent seen it at all. Kubiak was OC though until 2006, right? And I think Plummer was a better thrower of the ball on the run than Taylor...and IIRC Dennison eventually benched Plummer for rookie Jay Cutler halfway through the season?
K-9 Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 The Broncos did it with Plummer. Dennison was a coach. They went 13-3 and were third in offense. Thats the offense I thought we would run and we havent seen it at all. I don't have the same recollection. What percentage of plays did Plummer actually execute out of moving pockets, rollouts, bootlegs etc.? It was never the foundation of a passing offense. Because it can't be. For reasons I've already discussed.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 I don't have the same recollection. What percentage of plays did Plummer actually execute out of moving pockets, rollouts, bootlegs etc.? It was never the foundation of a passing offense. Because it can't be. For reasons I've already discussed. He ran a ton of rollouts and naked bootlegs the whole season. I liked him because I was an ASU fan so I watched him a lot. He wasn't good for a good portion of his career but when used right he was very effective. I predicted we would run that offense on here before the season started and we just haven't seen it at all. I have no idea why. Sure, you want him to be a drop back passer, too, and you're right, you cannot win without it. But you're also negating his strengths and allowing the defense a much, much easier time defending him. Kubiak was OC though until 2006, right? And I think Plummer was a better thrower of the ball on the run than Taylor...and IIRC Dennison eventually benched Plummer for rookie Jay Cutler halfway through the season? Dennison was the OL coach in that 2005 season they went 13-3 and became OC the next year. But that is the offense he was weaned on, the MIke Shanahan offense. Kubiak was Shanahan's protege and Dennison was Kubiak's. It's all versions of that same offense. My mistake though. They were 7th in points and 5th in yards. 2004 they were 9th in points and 5th in yards. Very good offense though.
reddogblitz Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 Kubiak was OC though until 2006, right? And I think Plummer was a better thrower of the ball on the run than Taylor...and IIRC Dennison eventually benched Plummer for rookie Jay Cutler halfway through the season? They did go to the AFC Championship in 2005 with Plummer as the man under.
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