Yards Per Pass Twitter - Early All 22 footage

[Scott7975]

This is all about 2018. There is a pretty big financial decision come January on TT. Are you advocating going into that decision with a very specific designed offense for TT in order to squeeze a couple more wins.

 

Or do you implement your offense and see if the QB that is on our roster and have a big decision to make in January can execute it?

 

You may not like it. May not agree with it. But that is the reality the minute TT rebooted his prove it deal

Everyone should know this. I just wish people would stop whining and moaning about Taylor, the offense, the Bills.

 

This season is what it is and you said it earlier. Transition. New QB next year. Stop being mad about today and hope this staff does things right for the future.

[PolishDave]

I do not believe the Bills can be a dominant offense running an offense predicated on bootlegs and zone read.

 

Part of the formula bro. Not the only ingredients. Biggest plays come on the deep passing.

 

Zone reads were a key component of the best running offense the Bills have ever had. Tyrod scored touchdowns running them.

 

I didn't say TT was not good at bootlegs, etc. so I'd be interested in the bolded part of my post where you claim I did.

 

 

Go look dude. You used the letters TT. Did that not stand for Tyrod Taylor? Your exact words.

[TheFunPolice]

Arguing about whether a bad QB is just bad because of the OL, the WR it the water...

 

I've been saying to pass more but maybe the coaches see this same stuff and don't think Tyrod can play QB so they try to limit his impact on the game

[K-9]

Go look dude. You used the letters TT. Did that not stand for Tyrod Taylor? Your exact words.

You can't bold the text where I said TT was not good at bootlegs because I never said that. Not even close. If you can't be honest here, don't waste my time.

 

For the last time, I only pointed out you can't design a passing game around the kind of space limiting plays you advocate. At BEST those plays are only effective at certain times in a game, depending on the situation. Otherwise you make it too easy for a defense that only has to defend a half or a third of the space, especially an NFL defense.

 

I won't even bother going into the injury risk you expose your QB to along the way.

[GoBills808]

 

Part of the formula bro. Not the only ingredients. Biggest plays come on the deep passing.

 

Zone reads were a key component of the best running offense the Bills have ever had. Tyrod scored touchdowns running them.

 

I think the point is that it's not a sustainable system. Defenses catch on, especially when it's being run by a poor passing QB. Chud brought zone read into the NFL in 2011 with Newton and the Panthers and it worked because it was a college concept that Newton could run effectively, being a decent passer and an excellent runner. Carrol in Seattle adapted it for a couple of seasons with Lynch and Wilson, obviously, although theirs was also a much simpler version with the check to Lynch being the effective call the majority of the time. A lot of other teams tried to implement some version of the zone read into their system (Kaepernick's glory years with the 49ers is maybe the best example, as he ran one of the most creative read options offenses in college with Chris Ault) to varying degrees of success between 2011 and 2014.

 

The problem is, professional defensive coordinators aren't college-level guys, they're pros. So after a season or two they start drafting hybrid DEs and safeties, rangier LBs, working out gap exchange/scrape techniques...NFL defenses figured it out. It's no coincidence Newton has steadily evolved into a pocket passer, and that the Carolina offense has moved away from a lot of the concepts they ran with him as a rookie. Kaepernick is out of the league, and Wilson's offense is hard to watch a lot of the time. Point being, these college concepts will migrate into the NFL from time to time, and occasionally proliferate as with zone read (or Wildcat for a season or two), but the surest successful offense in professional football will continue to be the one built around a fundamentally sound pocket passer. It confers advantages in the forward passing game that defenses will never be able to account for. That's why it's the gold standard, and why traditional quarterbacks will remain in high demand for the foreseeable future.

[PolishDave]

You can't bold the text where I said TT was not good at bootlegs because I never said that. Not even close. If you can't be honest here, don't waste my time.

 

For the last time, I only pointed out you can't design a passing game around the kind of space limiting plays you advocate. At BEST those plays are only effective at certain times in a game, depending on the situation. Otherwise you make it too easy for a defense that only has to defend a half or a third of the space, especially an NFL defense.

 

I won't even bother going into the injury risk you expose your QB to along the way.

 

I am being honest and it is silly I have to keep pointing it out. Geezuz.

 

Your exact words that I quoted you on:

 

"I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now. "

 

If you didn't mean TT was Tyrod Taylor when you said it, then okay bud. Exactly what else did you expect me to think you were saying?

 

I guess I read it wrong and so did like every other person who read it I'm guessing.

 

It is easy to be misunderstood on an internet forum. Happens all the time. Sorry. I will try reading between the lines better with your posts.

I think the point is that it's not a sustainable system. Defenses catch on, especially when it's being run by a poor passing QB. Chud brought zone read into the NFL in 2011 with Newton and the Panthers and it worked because it was a college concept that Newton could run effectively, being a decent passer and an excellent runner. Carrol in Seattle adapted it for a couple of seasons with Lynch and Wilson, obviously, although theirs was also a much simpler version with the check to Lynch being the effective call the majority of the time. A lot of other teams tried to implement some version of the zone read into their system (Kaepernick's glory years with the 49ers is maybe the best example, as he ran one of the most creative read options offenses in college with Chris Ault) to varying degrees of success between 2011 and 2014.

 

The problem is, professional defensive coordinators aren't college-level guys, they're pros. So after a season or two they start drafting hybrid DEs and safeties, rangier LBs, working out gap exchange/scrape techniques...NFL defenses figured it out. It's no coincidence Newton has steadily evolved into a pocket passer, and that the Carolina offense has moved away from a lot of the concepts they ran with him as a rookie. Kaepernick is out of the league, and Wilson's offense is hard to watch a lot of the time. Point being, these college concepts will migrate into the NFL from time to time, and occasionally proliferate as with zone read (or Wildcat for a season or two), but the surest successful offense in professional football will continue to be the one built around a fundamentally sound pocket passer. It confers advantages in the forward passing game that defenses will never be able to account for. That's why it's the gold standard, and why traditional quarterbacks will remain in high demand for the foreseeable future.

 

I get your point and mostly agree.

 

In my opinion Taylor is the best running QB in football right now. And the zone read has worked very well for Buffalo the last couple years. I would keep doing what has been working and tweak what hasn't. That's all.

 

He isn't going to run every play. Maybe you get one zone read in a series that has 8 plays in it. Get me? Part of the spaghetti sauce. Probably see it more often inside the red zone and on 3rd and short perhaps.

[BringBackOrton]

 

I am being honest and it is silly I have to keep pointing it out. Geezuz.

 

Your exact words that I quoted you on:

 

"I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now. "

 

If you didn't mean TT was Tyrod Taylor when you said it, then okay bud. Exactly what else did you expect me to think you were saying?

 

I guess I read it wrong and so did like every other person who read it I'm guessing.

 

It is easy to be misunderstood on an internet forum. Happens all the time. Sorry. I will try reading between the lines better with your posts.

 

 

I get your point and mostly agree.

 

In my opinion Taylor is the best running QB in football right now. And the zone read has worked very well for Buffalo the last couple years. I would keep doing what has been working and tweak what hasn't. That's all.

 

He isn't going to run every play. Maybe you get one zone read in a series that has 8 plays in it. Get me? Part of the spaghetti sauce. Probably see it more often inside the red zone and on 3rd and short perhaps.

He said if all TT can do is rollouts, read option and the deep ball, we're screwed.

 

I understood it fine.

[K-9]

I am being honest and it is silly I have to keep pointing it out. Geezuz.

 

Your exact words that I quoted you on:

 

"I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now. "

 

If you didn't mean TT was Tyrod Taylor when you said it, then okay bud. Exactly what else did you expect me to think you were saying?

 

I guess I read it wrong and so did like every other person who read it I'm guessing.

 

It is easy to be misunderstood on an internet forum. Happens all the time. Sorry. I will try reading between the lines better with your posts.

Let me clear it up for you since my subsequent posts didn't help you with my context:

 

Tyrod Taylor could be the GREATEST rollout, bootleg, moving pocket, read option QB of all time and we would STILL be worse off than we are now because you can't make those space limiting plays the foundation of your passing offense for the reasons I've already noted.

 

There are no lines to read between.

[transplantbillsfan]

Watching it multiple times and listening to ex-players like Donald Jones - I do not think this is on either TT or Zay.

 

Donald Jones put it best I thought - the pass should be a bit more to the outside - placement was not perfect, but when the safety is so far to the middle - Zay should of stayed further inside because it is easier to adjust to a throw toward the sidelines than toward the middle.

 

The pass and read was fine - the route was fine - both could of been better, but the combination of where the throw was and the way Zay ran the route made the catch very difficult. Both players need to learn from this.

 

I will give TT a lot of credit for that throw because for everyone calling for Peterman - I do not think Peterman makes that throw. I think Peterman reads the D and hits Shady at the first down sticks and life continues. That was a throw for the win by TT and I applaud that effort. Wish he would do that more.

 

RF, I like the take, and not because it takes blame off anyone.

 

Look, sitting in the bar where I was watching the game, I told the guy next to me it wouldn't shock me if there's a QB change at the half and I wouldn't be upset, either.

 

 

My feelings on Taylor are a lot more ambiguous than some of you think they are. I've been trying to establish that I'm excited about our future at the position because by 2018, one of two things will have happened:

 

1) Taylor will have such a good year in 2017 that we'll be pretty confident he's the guy leading us forward.

 

or

 

2) We will draft our future at the position, regardless of whether Taylor is retained for 2018, which he might be.

 

 

At this point, whether it's because the coaches just want a really conservative game plan or they just don't trust putting a bigger passing load on Taylor because they don't think he can handle it or he really can't handle it, I don't think we're going to see #1 happen.

 

Everyone said in the offseason we were obviously going to pass the ball a ton more than the last two years like it was obvious. I wish we would, but I don't know why it was so obvious.

 

And no, I'm not saying I wish we would pass the ball a ton more because I think Taylor would turn into a superstar. Unlike so many on this message board, I don't really know what Taylor would do if he were given a heavy passing load. What frustrated the hell outta me in the Carolina game was our game plan. I hope Dennison learns from it. Players need to execute, too, obviously. But I'm tired of these slow starts that extend for entire halves until we're desperate and need to open the game up.

 

 

Sink or swim. Let Taylor throw the ball 35 times a game. He's successful, good for 2017 for him and the team and maybe the future depending on how successful. He sucks, good for 2018 because we'll probably be in position to draft a guy.

 

 

When we started moving the ball on that last drive, it was the first time in awhile I actually felt like we were going to score a TD. Then the OPI happened and I lost it. Then it was back for the flash of an instant when I saw the ball in the air and Zay open.

 

Then heartbreak.

 

Oh the life of a Bills fan.

[Magox]

Maj, what do you think of this play?

 

Even though I do think Holmes would have beat his man for a deep one it is hard to blame TT here. He actually made a good read and threw it with anticipation.

[Royale with Cheese]

 

I am being honest and it is silly I have to keep pointing it out. Geezuz.

 

Your exact words that I quoted you on:

 

"I was just asking for specifics; what play calls would allow TT to shine? Because if it's a steady diet of bootlegs, rollouts, moving pockets, read options, and deep balls, we will be in an even deeper world of crap than we are now. "

 

If you didn't mean TT was Tyrod Taylor when you said it, then okay bud. Exactly what else did you expect me to think you were saying?

 

I guess I read it wrong and so did like every other person who read it I'm guessing.

 

It is easy to be misunderstood on an internet forum. Happens all the time. Sorry. I will try reading between the lines better with your posts.

 

I get your point and mostly agree.

 

In my opinion Taylor is the best running QB in football right now. And the zone read has worked very well for Buffalo the last couple years. I would keep doing what has been working and tweak what hasn't. That's all.

 

He isn't going to run every play. Maybe you get one zone read in a series that has 8 plays in it. Get me? Part of the spaghetti sauce. Probably see it more often inside the red zone and on 3rd and short perhaps.

 

Dave....he's just saying you can't do it all the time. Why he used the term "steady diet". I didn't have a problem understanding it.

A handful of time, here and there, it would be effective.

All the time, it wouldn't be effective because you're playing with half the field.

[jrober38]

I've been waiting to see a full field view of the QB and Zay on that last play. I wasn't sure if TT had begun making his throw and then Zay ran the route to the sideline or if TT made the throw after he saw Zay making his run to the sideline.

 

For me it's now conclusive, TT should have made that throw to his outside shoulder just as Sal had said.

 

It's very possible that Zay could have turned more upfield on that route, but none the less TT made a poor throw and definitely deserves blame.

 

Donald Jones, a former receiver, discussed the play extensively on Monday's radio show. He's never been shy of criticizing Taylor in the past, yet in this situation he laid all the blame on Zay Jones.

 

He said that on that route, if the safety stays on the hash, that the WR is supposed to work vertically up the field to the pylon. The reason is simple.

 

1. The safety is on his back. If the safety breaks, he can shield the safety from the throw with his body, and adjust to the ball as needed by working back to the sideline. It allows the QB to either throw the ball up the field for a long play if the safety is out of position, or to the sideline so that he receiver can round his route off after the ball is in the air and secure the catch (if the safety breaks on the ball).

 

2. It's a lot easier to break the route off to the sideline than it is back up the field.

 

Taylor threw the ball exactly where it needed to be, but Jones, a rookie receiver ran a very poor route that he could recover from and secure the catch. This is how Donald Jones explained things, and there was no doubt in his mind the blame should fall on the rookie.

[transplantbillsfan]

You know what I see as a fan?

 

Coaches way too slow to adjust or modify the "plan."

 

 

Yep.

 

Super irritating.

[Royale with Cheese]

 

Donald Jones, a former receiver, discussed the play extensively on Monday's radio show. He's never been shy of criticizing Taylor in the past, yet in this situation he laid all the blame on Zay Jones.

 

He said that on that route, if the safety stays on the hash, that the WR is supposed to work vertically up the field to the pylon. The reason is simple.

 

1. The safety is on his back. If the safety breaks, he can shield the safety from the throw with his body, and adjust to the ball as needed by working back to the sideline. It allows the QB to either throw the ball up the field for a long play if the safety is out of position, or to the sideline so that he receiver can round his route off after the ball is in the air and secure the catch (if the safety breaks on the ball).

 

2. It's a lot easier to break the route off to the sideline than it is back up the field.

 

Taylor threw the ball exactly where it needed to be, but Jones, a rookie receiver ran a very poor route that he could recover from and secure the catch. This is how Donald Jones explained things, and there was no doubt in his mind the blame should fall on the rookie.

 

I originally put blame on Taylor and then I listened to Jones, watched the All 22 on it and I changed my mind.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Royale with Cheese

[transplantbillsfan]

Well I'm sure you'll understand that I don't just take your word for it. I actually would be interested to see another All-22 article and Russell Wilson would be my top priority because I think he and Tyrod are closer in value than people think. But I can guarantee none of the Buffalo media geniuses will come up with that idea.

 

I'm not looking for articles right now or anything, but I know there's been a narrative in Seattle that Wilson has a lot of the same issues. There was a lot of speculation that they'd draft a QB high to kinda push him competitively. Obviously, they didn't. But there's definitely concern regarding several of the same things.

[jrober38]

 

I originally put blame on Taylor and then I listened to Jones, watched the All 22 on it and I changed my mind.

 

As did I.

 

I thought Taylor missed the throw, then I listened to Jones properly explain the route concept, and it was clear Jones made a rookie mistake and Taylor delivered the ball exactly where it needed to be thrown.

 

Taylor had a rough game, but he didn't leave too many plays on the field, which is a testament to how bad the supporting cast is around him.

 

I'm not looking for articles right now or anything, but I know there's been a narrative in Seattle that Wilson has a lot of the same issues. There was a lot of speculation that they'd draft a QB high to kinda push him competitively. Obviously, they didn't. But there's definitely concern regarding several of the same things.

 

Wilson has regressed badly. As they've put more on his plate over the past few years, his effectiveness has steadily declined.

 

He's clearly not a pocket passer who you can drop back 35 times a game and ask to win a game for you. Like Taylor (and a ton of other NFL QBs), he needs a strong running game to back him up and put less on his plate because he's not the type of QB who can win you games on his own.

[Steptide]

This one my favorite

 

https://twitter.com/yardsperpass/status/909948976253800449

Who is that 2nd from the top? Could he have been anymore wide open? Geez Louise tyrod

[GG]

This is my favorite. Holmes is streaking by the CB and would have been far behind the CB if the ball was thrown to him

 

[okbills]

When the conversation devolves to this point over a QB its a SURE SIGN its over for the QB.

 

If he was doing great there would be no conversation.

 

We've been having a conversation about him like this for two years.

TT is done.

[hemma]

Has he ever checked out of a play?

 

I know he has called time out a few times, but has he ever deliberately changed the play?

 

I just don't think he processes info quick enough to make a decision. He's even having a hard time deciding whether to run.