Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Watkins probably signs a 1 year deal somewhere next season. Maybe Chicago.
thebandit27 Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 There are a few lessons to be learned with this situation: 1) don't expect a player to have an immediate impact being dropped into a new system with a new QB with whom he has zero rapport 2) don't expect a QB to be anywhere near as productive/effective when you take away the only WR with whom he's ever had a strong level of trust 3) seldom does a player leaving a situation where he's been productive result in him becoming more productive; the grass is almost never greener All that said, the book is not quite written on the trade yet. I like the way that Gaines has played, but ironically, his availability has been much worse than Watkins over the duration of their careers (and that's continued this year). Watkins, on the other hand, has been about the same as he was here: outstanding when targeted, but targeted far too little for the overall impact to be great.
Magox Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 There are a few lessons to be learned with this situation: 1) don't expect a player to have an immediate impact being dropped into a new system with a new QB with whom he has zero rapport 2) don't expect a QB to be anywhere near as productive/effective when you take away the only WR with whom he's ever had a strong level of trust 3) seldom does a player leaving a situation where he's been productive result in him becoming more productive; the grass is almost never greener All that said, the book is not quite written on the trade yet. I like the way that Gaines has played, but ironically, his availability has been much worse than Watkins over the duration of their careers (and that's continued this year). Watkins, on the other hand, has been about the same as he was here: outstanding when targeted, but targeted far too little for the overall impact to be great. When are the excuses for Sammy's lack of production ever going to end? And to say that he was productive here, is really putting it kindly. Even when he was playing his production was erratic. Some games really good, some games a non factor. His production at some point is going to have to speak for itself.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) There are a few lessons to be learned with this situation: 1) don't expect a player to have an immediate impact being dropped into a new system with a new QB with whom he has zero rapport 2) don't expect a QB to be anywhere near as productive/effective when you take away the only WR with whom he's ever had a strong level of trust 3) seldom does a player leaving a situation where he's been productive result in him becoming more productive; the grass is almost never greener All that said, the book is not quite written on the trade yet. I like the way that Gaines has played, but ironically, his availability has been much worse than Watkins over the duration of their careers (and that's continued this year). Watkins, on the other hand, has been about the same as he was here: outstanding when targeted, but targeted far too little for the overall impact to be great. Ironically enough, it is pretty obvious that Sammy would have had his greatest production and of been of the most help STAYING RIGHT IN BUFFALO!!!! Anytime he was targeted 10-12x a game he has been dominant. Edited October 18, 2017 by horned dogs
Bills Pimpin' Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 With the mediocre start for Watkins, it's highly unlikely that he commands that big contract. It's just frustrating because if he had stayed with the Bills I think TT would've made his presence count. Who knows where he'll land next year? My guess is Carolina.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 I don't understand why Sammy isn't getting #1 targets in LA. He is still attracting teams #1 CB, Seahawks and Jags will give many WRs problems, but I've watched him run routes on film in Buffalo. He is nearly impossible to cover by anyone. So like Sammy said, something is going on.
thebandit27 Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 When are the excuses for Sammy's lack of production ever going to end? And to say that he was productive here, is really putting it kindly. Even when he was playing his production was erratic. Some games really good, some games a non factor. His production at some point is going to have to speak for itself. I make no excuses. All I've ever said about Sammy is that his per-target production was outstanding when he was here, but that he didn't get enough targets. Why that was the case was always a matter of opinion. Ironically enough, it is pretty obvious that Sammy would have had his greatest production and of been of the most help STAYING RIGHT IN BUFFALO!!!! Anytime he was targeted 10-12x a game he has been dominant. Only 10 times in 43 career games. My guess is Carolina. As I said two weeks ago, I think the best situation would be to take an Alshon Jeffery-type deal in a place that throws the ball like crazy and has a solid QB. Maybe a team like Pittsburgh or LAC would make sense.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 I make no excuses. All I've ever said about Sammy is that his per-target production was outstanding when he was here, but that he didn't get enough targets. Why that was the case was always a matter of opinion. Only 10 times in 43 career games. As I said two weeks ago, I think the best situation would be to take an Alshon Jeffery-type deal in a place that throws the ball like crazy and has a solid QB. Maybe a team like Pittsburgh or LAC would make sense. Arizona would be a great match for him also. Down field throwing team. Arizona set to lose a few wrs next offseason.
cd1 Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 There are a few lessons to be learned with this situation: 1) don't expect a player to have an immediate impact being dropped into a new system with a new QB with whom he has zero rapport 2) don't expect a QB to be anywhere near as productive/effective when you take away the only WR with whom he's ever had a strong level of trust 3) seldom does a player leaving a situation where he's been productive result in him becoming more productive; the grass is almost never greener All that said, the book is not quite written on the trade yet. I like the way that Gaines has played, but ironically, his availability has been much worse than Watkins over the duration of their careers (and that's continued this year). Watkins, on the other hand, has been about the same as he was here: outstanding when targeted, but targeted far too little for the overall impact to be great. YET - Robert Woods ...
Magox Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Rams are doing well record wise. But they are potentially going to be facing a difficult decision over the next few months. As of right now Sammy as on pace for 40 receptions and just under 600 yards, 5-6 TD's for the year. I don't believe he will continue at that pace, it's almost unfathomable that it got to this point. If he ends the season with a very hot streak with lots of explosive plays, receptions and yards then I still believe they will give him a really good contract. Probably not the $16M+ a year that he and his agent I believe envisioned he'd be receiving but probably something north of $13M+ a year. But if he improves slightly from where he is, then I think the Rams will offer him a contract of around $10-$11M a year loaded with incentives and if he doesn't accept, they let him walk.
thebandit27 Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 YET - Robert Woods ... Who had an entire offseason to develop a rapport with the QB as the team's expected No. 1 target in the passing game. If you don't feel that that's a different situation than coming into a new offense after training camp, well, I guess we're going to disagree on that point. Rams are doing well record wise. But they are potentially going to be facing a difficult decision over the next few months. As of right now Sammy as on pace for 40 receptions and just under 600 yards, 5-6 TD's for the year. I don't believe he will continue at that pace, it's almost unfathomable that it got to this point. If he ends the season with a very hot streak with lots of explosive plays, receptions and yards then I still believe they will give him a really good contract. Probably not the $16M+ a year that he and his agent I believe envisioned he'd be receiving but probably something north of $13M+ a year. But if he improves slightly from where he is, then I think the Rams will offer him a contract of around $10-$11M a year loaded with incentives and if he doesn't accept, they let him walk. Basically, yeah. IF the Rams find a way to incorporate him into their passing game in a big way prior to the end of the season, then it would be in his best interest to take a Jeffery-type deal with them.
CommonCents Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Rams are doing well record wise. But they are potentially going to be facing a difficult decision over the next few months. As of right now Sammy as on pace for 40 receptions and just under 600 yards, 5-6 TD's for the year. I don't believe he will continue at that pace, it's almost unfathomable that it got to this point. If he ends the season with a very hot streak with lots of explosive plays, receptions and yards then I still believe they will give him a really good contract. Probably not the $16M+ a year that he and his agent I believe envisioned he'd be receiving but probably something north of $13M+ a year. But if he improves slightly from where he is, then I think the Rams will offer him a contract of around $10-$11M a year loaded with incentives and if he doesn't accept, they let him walk. As I said before at this pace he would land a similar deal to Allen Hurns. It seems he has high expectations of himself so if he plans on sticking around the NFL for awhile I'd expect him to take a 2 year deal with a big money second year on a team option. Essentially a one year prove it deal. Then based on results he may get that contract he wants. I haven't seen the production against top CB's to even consider giving him big bucks. The Sammy Watch was all quiet because of the defenses he was facing. Folks shouldn't over react to production against scrubs. He needs sustained productive games to warrant any praise and more importantly to earn that big payday.
GG Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 I make no excuses. All I've ever said about Sammy is that his per-target production was outstanding when he was here, but that he didn't get enough targets. Why that was the case was always a matter of opinion. And to keep flogging a dead horse, this is the main issue. Why hasn't Sammy been able to command a higher proportion of targets? On one side of the pole you see a consistent pattern of underutilization across 4 QBs and 4 OCs and attribute it to the changing stage of actors and that being the main reason for lack of consistency. On the other side is the fact that despite his world class talent, 4 QBs and 4 OCs haven't been able to get him more involved in the offense. That is odd, and is not something you would imagine from that talent, because other top WRs have maintained high production across different QBs and OCs.
Marv's Neighbor Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Why do we care? It's like having an ex-wife watch. Or a Ralph Wilson watch. Oh by the way, today's Ralph's Birthday!
Coach Tuesday Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 And to keep flogging a dead horse, this is the main issue. Why hasn't Sammy been able to command a higher proportion of targets? On one side of the pole you see a consistent pattern of underutilization across 4 QBs and 4 OCs and attribute it to the changing stage of actors and that being the main reason for lack of consistency. On the other side is the fact that despite his world class talent, 4 QBs and 4 OCs haven't been able to get him more involved in the offense. That is odd, and is not something you would imagine from that talent, because other top WRs have maintained high production across different QBs and OCs. It's also odd because he's definitely getting open...
Bill_with_it Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Who had an entire offseason to develop a rapport with the QB as the team's expected No. 1 target in the passing game. If you don't feel that that's a different situation than coming into a new offense after training camp, well, I guess we're going to disagree on that point. Basically, yeah. IF the Rams find a way to incorporate him into their passing game in a big way prior to the end of the season, then it would be in his best interest to take a Jeffery-type deal with them. The rams training camp was 15 practices. From July 29 to Aug 17.Sammy was traded around Aug 11, second preseason game. Hes been there for 68 days how much longer does he need? Robert hasnt taken 68 days to develop a rapport? At some point this whole rapport schtick is gonna come crashing down.
BADOLBILZ Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) But If memory serves me correctly, the Bills did pay him once but he kept pouting and even dogged it in some games. That he was a phenomenal talent was without any doubt but IMHO the FO probably wondered how long he will be happy for after a second raise. That is why he was not retained. Not many players make a switch to a different position very well (Kordell Stewart as an example) but Peters made a massive switch and quite successfully. I wish the Bills and his agent had figured out a way to keep him here. We spent years attempting to find a competent LT, let alone a very good one. Your memory serves you somewhat correct........but wrong. Gave him a RT deal........THEN moved him to LT where the money around the league was MUCH higher back then. And in the meantime they gave two "meh" free agents bigger deals than he got......to play G and RT, respectively. We weren't talking about a *good* LT like Cordy Glenn here.........as Andy Reid said......Peters was the "Peyton Manning of LT's"......the best or damn near it. But hey, Russ Brandon has OTHERWISE been GREAT for the football operations for this team so what's one little mistake? Edited October 18, 2017 by #BADOL
Lv-Bills Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 When are the excuses for Sammy's lack of production ever going to end? And to say that he was productive here, is really putting it kindly. Even when he was playing his production was erratic. Some games really good, some games a non factor. His production at some point is going to have to speak for itself. Seriously. My god. I had to log in just to say thank you for this. Hell, one guy even points out his "mediocre" start to this season. Yeah, um no, he's not performed mediocre. He's been downright bad or non-existent in every game but one. Thank You for this. Simple and 100% factual. Who had an entire offseason to develop a rapport with the QB as the team's expected No. 1 target in the passing game. If you don't feel that that's a different situation than coming into a new offense after training camp, well, I guess we're going to disagree on that point. But yet, when Watkins was with Buffalo, it didn't matter that Tyrod never had an offseason with him either. Watkins was hurt every offseason but one, and most of the time didn't even practice during the week in the regular season. But yet, somehow, it was Taylor's fault that he couldn't get the ball to his supposed "superstar" player, and that's why Watkins suffered supposedly. Offseason work only matters when it serves someone's viewpoint. The excuses are almost all gone now for Watkins. Put up or shut up time for #14. Shut your mouth, grind, and prove it on the field. He's about to pop the Bust bubble if he doesn't get going soon.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Seriously. My god. I had to log in just to say thank you for this. Hell, one guy even points out his "mediocre" start to this season. Yeah, um no, he's not performed mediocre. He's been downright bad or non-existent in every game but one. Thank You for this. Simple and 100% factual. But yet, when Watkins was with Buffalo, it didn't matter that Tyrod never had an offseason with him either. Watkins was hurt every offseason but one, and most of the time didn't even practice during the week in the regular season. But yet, somehow, it was Taylor's fault that he couldn't get the ball to his supposed "superstar" player, and that's why Watkins suffered supposedly. Offseason work only matters when it serves someone's viewpoint. The excuses are almost all gone now for Watkins. Put up or shut up time for #14. Shut your mouth, grind, and prove it on the field. He's about to pop the Bust bubble if he doesn't get going soon. he's #12 now
thebandit27 Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 The rams training camp was 15 practices. From July 29 to Aug 17. Sammy was traded around Aug 11, second preseason game. Hes been there for 68 days how much longer does he need? Robert hasnt taken 68 days to develop a rapport? At some point this whole rapport schtick is gonna come crashing down. Unless I'm mistaken, Woods signed in March. He had 5 months of time to get up to speed with the offsense and QB before Watkins even got off the plane in LA. If you don't see a difference then I don't know what to tell you. As for Rapport, please tell me why Jordan Matthews isn't putting up Watkins-in-2015 type numbers with Taylor. While you're at it, why is Brandin Cooks on pace for fewer receptions & TDs than in either of his last 2 seasons in NO despite playing with the best QB of this generation? Trust/comfort level matters.
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