GoBills808 Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 For newer posters, guys like Alpha, Bandit, & Kirby are very positive guys who always give reasonable takes. I believe they try to look for the bright side of things for the Bills perspective. They all didnt like the trade from the beginning. For the most part, you normally dont win a trade when you trade an elite talent. As someone pointed out in the thread, most Eagles fans hate the Shady trade from the beginning (Whaley sucks!). They still havent found a good replacement for him 3 years later. You can love the Bills but not blindly defend every move. This has the potential to be a really awful trade for us. Hes 24. Well the Eagles traded their star and then the next year went out and got what looks for all the world to be their franchise QB...so if we're making the McCoy/Watkins comparison I'd be all for that kind of outcome.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 Well the Eagles traded their star and then the next year went out and got what looks for all the world to be their franchise QB...so if we're making the McCoy/Watkins comparison I'd be all for that kind of outcome. 1) The McCoy trade had zero impact on the Eagles getting a franchise qb since it was a straight up trade. 2) Would Wentz be a better qb if he had McCoy instead of a running game that averages 82 yards a game. 3). If we get a young qb next next year, would be better of having Sammy? We also already had 2 1st round picks.
Scott7975 Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 I still think there is a lot more to this than just acquiring picks. Whaley made a bad move trading up to draft him IMO, but Beane made a worse move trading him if its just because they want more picks.
BillsFan4 Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 Watkins was traded because GM Beane felt that a 2018 2nd round pick > keeping a wide receiver for one more year (a wide receiver that has never proven he can be counted on to play an entire NFL season healthy). Yup. If people want to say that not picking up the option was a mistake, I understand that. But that decision was made before a Beane got here. It was made by a first time head coach running things after the previous GM was fired and before they found someone to replace him (and whoever else in the front office was helping him, which if there is truly the bad blood between Sammy and the front office that people like Boyst and other have been saying, they may have influenced McDermott's decision). Beane made the best of the situation he was presented. He decided that getting a starting CB and a 2nd round pick was better than letting Sammy go for nothing at the end of the year or tagging him and using roughly $17M of their $30-ish Million in cap space on a WR. According to over the cap, the Bills have 34 pending free agents. That's a lot of holes to fill, especially if you eat up $17M for 1 WR who barely got the ball 6-7 times a game.
GoBills808 Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 1) The McCoy trade had zero impact on the Eagles getting a franchise qb since it was a straight up trade. 2) Would Wentz be a better qb if he had McCoy instead of a running game that averages 82 yards a game. 3). If we get a young qb next next year, would be better of having Sammy? We also already had 2 1st round picks. I'm just saying, neither we nor the Rams are going to have our chances at winning a Super Bowl greatly affected by the Watkins trade. It probably helps them a bit and hurts us a bit, but Goff was and is going to be the determining factor in their success. Same with the Eagles. Losing McCoy will damage their chances of winning a Super Bowl a little, but gaining Wentz helps their chances a lot. I guess in the end for me, RBs and WRs (no matter how talented) just really don't matter in the long run. I'd rather have Watkins here, absolutely, but if they felt a 2nd for him and Jones + their franchise guy next season was a better bet then I'm not going to hold that against them.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 I'm just saying, neither we nor the Rams are going to have our chances at winning a Super Bowl greatly affected by the Watkins trade. It probably helps them a bit and hurts us a bit, but Goff was and is going to be the determining factor in their success. Same with the Eagles. Losing McCoy will damage their chances of winning a Super Bowl a little, but gaining Wentz helps their chances a lot. I guess in the end for me, RBs and WRs (no matter how talented) just really don't matter in the long run. I'd rather have Watkins here, absolutely, but if they felt a 2nd for him and Jones + their franchise guy next season was a better bet then I'm not going to hold that against them. Atlanta would never have made the playoffs let alone the Super Bowl without Julio Jones and Freeman.
GoBills808 Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 Atlanta would never have made the playoffs let alone the Super Bowl without Julio Jones and Freeman. Maybe not. But they'd have had a better chance without those two than without Matt Ryan. We've had McCoy and Watkins together for two seasons now and we haven't made the playoffs or Super Bowl, and it's not because either of them are lacking in talent.
JohnC Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 Atlanta would never have made the playoffs let alone the Super Bowl without Julio Jones and Freeman. Atlanta gave up a lot to get Julio Jones. They already had a franchise qb in place capable of taking advantage of his tremendous talents. The most important player and indispensable player on the Falcons is Matt Ryan. What changed the dynamic from being one of the most mocked and losing franchise of the fading Al Davis era to a team now in the discussion for being a SB contending team is Derek Carr, their qb. There is no doubt that Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper are elite players at their respective positions but what altered the course of that franchise was the acquisition and development of their franchise qb. The same qb that we passed on in the draft. Getting a quality qb doesn't automatically mean that a team is going to be immediately successful. The roster still needs to be upgraded and the qb still needs to develop. You are in the LA area. You are well aware that what has changed the perception of the Rams is not just the acquisition of Goff, which required trading a number of high picks, but also his development and an upgrade of the roster. The indispensable player on that team is the qb and not the scintillating talent of the traded for player from western NY. The Bills are rebuilding. There is no quick fix. What is known for sure is that until this dithering franchise does what is necessary to acquire a legitimate franchise qb this besotted franchise will continue to be irrelevant.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 Atlanta gave up a lot to get Julio Jones. They already had a franchise qb in place capable of taking advantage of his tremendous talents. The most important player and indispensable player on the Falcons is Matt Ryan. What changed the dynamic from being one of the most mocked and losing franchise of the fading Al Davis era to a team now in the discussion for being a SB contending team is Derek Carr, their qb. There is no doubt that Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper are elite players at their respective positions but what altered the course of that franchise was the acquisition and development of their franchise qb. The same qb that we passed on in the draft. Getting a quality qb doesn't automatically mean that a team is going to be immediately successful. The roster still needs to be upgraded and the qb still needs to develop. You are in the LA area. You are well aware that what has changed the perception of the Rams is not just the acquisition of Goff, which required trading a number of high picks, but also his development and an upgrade of the roster. The indispensable player on that team is the qb and not the scintillating talent of the traded for player from western NY. The Bills are rebuilding. There is no quick fix. What is known for sure is that until this dithering franchise does what is necessary to acquire a legitimate franchise qb this besotted franchise will continue to be irrelevant. The jury is still out on Goff. What you saw last year was a QB without weapons and with terrible coaching. What you see this year is the same QB with weapons and good coaching. It isn't as black and white as you are making it. Although surely you cannot win without above average quarterbacks. But you can't win without receivers and runners and coaching either.
JohnC Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 The jury is still out on Goff. What you saw last year was a QB without weapons and with terrible coaching. What you see this year is the same QB with weapons and good coaching. It isn't as black and white as you are making it. Although surely you cannot win without above average quarterbacks. But you can't win without receivers and runners and coaching either. Goff was a rookie who was overwhelmed on a not so good team. When he was drafted the stated intention at his drafting was that he was going to sit out the year and use it as his training redshirt year. Although he wasn't ready he was thrown into the fire. It shouldn't be a surprise that he mightily struggled. His improvement this year was dramatic because as you noted the coaching was better, the team in general was improved and he worked hard to get better. That's how it is supposed to work. No one is suggesting that having a better roster with an upgrade at a number isn't important because obviously it is. My point is simply that a legitimate franchise qb is essential for success. If you offered me Goff for a first, second and third round pick in next year's draft I would make the deal and run out of fear of being arrested for robbery.
GoBills808 Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 The jury is still out on Goff. What you saw last year was a QB without weapons and with terrible coaching. What you see this year is the same QB with weapons and good coaching. It isn't as black and white as you are making it. Although surely you cannot win without above average quarterbacks. But you can't win without receivers and runners and coaching either. Yes. True. But a good quarterback elevates the average/above average players around him to a degree that good players around a bad quarterback simply cannot. The QB remains the most important part of a rebuild.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 Yes. True. But a good quarterback elevates the average/above average players around him to a degree that good players around a bad quarterback simply cannot. The QB remains the most important part of a rebuild. I think everyone everywhere agrees with that. The point is you need the others, too. So why get rid of the others while trying to fill the most important when you can't win with just the most important either.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 I couldn't tell you the exact reason why some players are just injury-prone. They just are. I recall Rob Johnson suffering all sorts of injuries. Maybe it is just dumb luck and injuries can happen to any player, but no one has a crystal ball so all you can do is go off of a player's history. The point is it's another injury. And after you get the first, it's easier to get more concussions. And again, not even a fifth of the season has been played. I don't hate him. Maybe others do. I just didn't/don't see him as a good investment and the money he's looking for. Stop making sense. That's not allowed here. It's like fighting in the war room.
BobChalmers Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) So how many here think Rams will keep Watkins next year and beoyond? Stop making sense. That's not allowed here. It's like fighting in the war room. So true! Edited September 23, 2017 by BobChalmers
boyst Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 So how many here think Rams will keep Watkins next year and beoyond? So true! he will become the highest paid WR in history and remain
oldmanfan Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 Whether the Rams sign Sammy will depend on how he does this year. If he lights it up they'll offer him a ton. If he doesn't then Sammy will find it hard to make the money he thinks he's worth. Especially if this concussion becomes an issue. I didn't like the Sammy trade. But I have said repeatedly I don't have access to the same data set the front office did. I suspect they were concerned about picking up a fifth year at over 10 million when they were bunt absolutely sure of his health. This far this year he's had two pedestrian games and one good game. We will see. The Bills weren't absolutely right after his pedestrian games nor were they absolutely wrong after Thursday night.
stinky finger Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 For newer posters, guys like Alpha, Bandit, & Kirby are very positive guys who always give reasonable takes. I believe they try to look for the bright side of things for the Bills perspective. They all didnt like the trade from the beginning. For the most part, you normally dont win a trade when you trade an elite talent. As someone pointed out in the thread, most Eagles fans hate the Shady trade from the beginning (Whaley sucks!). They still havent found a good replacement for him 3 years later. You can love the Bills but not blindly defend every move. This has the potential to be a really awful trade for us. Hes 24. Wait, has the "potential" to be a bad trade? I thought that was a done deal.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 isn't it safe to say that sammy's ability as a player has nothing to do with why he is no longer on the team? This is the part of the deal that so many try to ignore. I've had conversations with fellow posters who have told me that there is no way the team had off the field concerns with Sammy. As if they really know that.
CanadianFan Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 So how many here think Rams will keep Watkins next year and beoyond? Rams will pay up to keep Sammy. I believe the extension might be announced even before end of season. Rams can get him cheaper now than if they wait till off-season free agency to try and price him. Rams need Sammy for 2 fold - they got a big expensive stadium that's self-funded and it needs to get packed. He's the electric talent on offense needed to attract bums to the seat. Yes Donald's awesome on D, but DTs don't bring fan excitement like offense. And Rams NEED Sammy to make Goff into a franchise QB. Their chemistry will grow I have no doubt over time. Thursday night was the first time I saw Sammy play with confidence in a Rams uniform. He's still feeling his way with the offense.
Doc Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 Rams will pay up to keep Sammy. I believe the extension might be announced even before end of season. Rams can get him cheaper now than if they wait till off-season free agency to try and price him. Rams need Sammy for 2 fold - they got a big expensive stadium that's self-funded and it needs to get packed. He's the electric talent on offense needed to attract bums to the seat. Yes Donald's awesome on D, but DTs don't bring fan excitement like offense. And Rams NEED Sammy to make Goff into a franchise QB. Their chemistry will grow I have no doubt over time. Thursday night was the first time I saw Sammy play with confidence in a Rams uniform. He's still feeling his way with the offense. How do you figure? Especially after Thursday night?
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