Big takeaway from our opponent today: Newton way overrated

[transplantbillsfan]

 

who cares if he's overrated, really?

 

so you'll be discussing how overrated siemian is next week also?

 

If you don't care, why are you here?

 

I avoid threads I don't care about, why don't you do the same?

[Fadingpain]

I have never been a big Cam Newton fan, but he is not "right" right now in my opinion.

 

I don't think his current level of play is indicative of who he is as a QB at this point in his career.

 

Other than that, I don't have much to say about Carolina's QB situation. Who cares!

 

I'm interested in what the Bills do.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

 

I said it last week and will say it again. He is vastly over rated. He completes less than 60% of his passes for his career!

 

He can be electric and lights out. He is incredibly talented. However the production hasn't been there since the Super Bowl season. That season the Panthers got to play an incredibly easy schedule against the AFC South (won by the 9-7 Texans) and NFC East won by the (9-7 Redskins) who featured 6 teams that finished .500 or worse. Then their division which had an 8-8 Falcons, 7-9 Saints, and 6-10 Bucs that he got to play twice. That is 14 games against teams that finished .500 or worse. They played the Seahawks and Packers who finished 10-6 to round out their schedule. He won MVP and put up huge numbers but that was an incredibly lucky schedule.

 

I agree that when engaged he is fantastic but there are too many games like this weeks littered through his career to say he is a top 5-10 guy. He can play like the best QB in the league as we saw in 2015 but last year and this year so far he has performed as somewhere around the 20th best QB in the league. Without going through names he falls somewhere around 15 for me give or take.

 

....agree with all of your points....he is highly inconsistent and you don't know which one is showing up........pretty obvious that he is slowed by surgery last week.....never really liked his swagger or ME attitude.....threw teammates under the bus many times, same way RG II 1/4 did......he's out but Cam remains with 250+ lbs being a big factor.....

[transplantbillsfan]

Well let's do it then:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Ryan

Brees

Roethlisberger

Carr

Stafford

Rivers

Newton

Luck

 

Who do you have ahead of him? And does my list look like I have him in your 'way overrated' category?

 

Did you think this thread was directed at you?

Well let's do it then:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Ryan

Brees

Roethlisberger

Carr

Stafford

Rivers

Newton

Luck

 

Who do you have ahead of him? And does my list look like I have him in your 'way overrated' category?

 

And let me put it this way, too.

 

I think the league is a little watered down with QBs right now. QB play is fantastic because of all the rule changes. But I don't think the QB ability reflects the production. So I don't really think talking about him in this "ranked" way compared with today's QBs is relevant.

 

 

It's more a reflection that the argument has been, for years, that Cam Newton is an Elite QB. I think there are 4 Elite QBs in the NFL: Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Big Ben.

 

Cam doesn't even belong in that conversation.

 

 

And when all is said and done, I'll be curious to see how good Goff, Wentz and Prescott actually are. I think Wentz might be better than Cam. Goff looks good right now. And I also think Mariota and Winston might jump him. And I think Luck is better than him, though I don't know if he's ever going to have the team surrounding him to justify all the pre-draft hype that surrounded him. If that guy doesn't win a Super Bowl before his career is over, that's going to be a massive letdown for him and the Colts, assuming he remains there.

You literally brought him in the conversation this topic.

 

I'm gonna say this, and I'm not trying to be mean. But you actually suck at playing the victim.

 

Actually I've been trying to stick to Newton alone, except for my disclaimer at the beginning. Folks are definitely bringing him in, though. So as this has progressed I'm just rolling with the conversation.

 

And victim?

 

 

I don't feel victimized. You mistake my confusion for me playing the victim. Why people choose to come into threads they literally don't care to discuss is pretty confusing, to me.

Edited September 19, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[BringBackOrton]

 

Did you think this thread was directed at you?

 

And let me put it this way, too.

 

I think the league is a little watered down with QBs right now. QB play is fantastic because of all the rule changes. But I don't think the QB ability reflects the production. So I don't really think talking about him in this "ranked" way compared with today's QBs is relevant.

 

 

It's more a reflection that the argument has been, for years, that Cam Newton is an Elite QB. I think there are 4 Elite QBs in the NFL: Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Big Ben.

 

Cam doesn't even belong in that conversation.

 

 

And when all is said and done, I'll be curious to see how good Goff, Wentz and Prescott actually are. I think Wentz might be better than Cam. Goff looks good right now. And I also think Mariota and Winston might jump him. And I think Luck is better than him, though I don't know if he's ever going to have the team surrounding him to justify all the pre-draft hype that surrounded him. If that guy doesn't win a Super Bowl before his career is over, that's going to be a massive letdown for him and the Colts, assuming he remains there.

 

Actually I've been trying to stick to Newton alone, except for my disclaimer at the beginning. Folks are definitely bringing him in, though. So as this has progressed I'm just rolling with the conversation.

 

And victim?

 

 

I don't feel victimized. You mistake my confusion for me playing the victim. Why people choose to come into threads they literally don't care to discuss is pretty confusing, to me.

No, you haven't.

 

You're a liar.

 

 

Hmmm... fascinating... other than replacing the words "shrugs off" with the word "eludes" this sounds very much like a QB you hate.

 

 

Again, so interesting that people throw out this losing Olsen excuse despite the fact that he was targeted twice in all his time on the field for 1 reception for 10 yards. And yeah, you can say he missed most of the game all you want, except he was there for the entire first quarter and the Panthers ran 22 offensive plays in that quarter alone.

 

Newton still had Benjamin and Funchess who he's built chemistry with over years and throw in an "Elite" rookie hybrid and this hypocritical excuse is pretty comical.

 

 

Newton was fortunate enough often late to find WRs wide friggin open in the middle of the field while wildly missing guys on more than one occasion and that's something he's done over the course of his entire career. It's not just yesterday.

 

You made it to two pages. You can't help yourself. It's laughable.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

If you don't care, why are you here?

 

I avoid threads I don't care about, *why don't you do the same?

 

well, if you need to look at it that way. I tend to check them all out, even mosey over to PPP on occasion, never looking to avoid much. I came to the thread to question what you were trying to prove with the thread. I guess "prove" was the wrong word, instead I should of said gain. newton is not the greatest but he is a competitor and can throw the football pretty well. I suspect the post surgery had to have some factor in his game sunday and facing a stout bills defense didn't help either. sorry if I was stepping on your toes or crashing your party. I realize they were the last opponent and I assume since QB seems to be your favorite position, you wanted to share how much you feel cam newton is way overrated.

 

 

will you be doing these type of threads on the opponents QB's every week? just asking in advance in case I want to stop by, *if that's okay with you?

[GoBills808]

 

Did you think this thread was directed at you?

 

And let me put it this way, too.

 

I think the league is a little watered down with QBs right now. QB play is fantastic because of all the rule changes. But I don't think the QB ability reflects the production. So I don't really think talking about him in this "ranked" way compared with today's QBs is relevant.

 

 

It's more a reflection that the argument has been, for years, that Cam Newton is an Elite QB. I think there are 4 Elite QBs in the NFL: Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Big Ben.

 

Cam doesn't even belong in that conversation.

 

 

And when all is said and done, I'll be curious to see how good Goff, Wentz and Prescott actually are. I think Wentz might be better than Cam. Goff looks good right now. And I also think Mariota and Winston might jump him. And I think Luck is better than him, though I don't know if he's ever going to have the team surrounding him to justify all the pre-draft hype that surrounded him. If that guy doesn't win a Super Bowl before his career is over, that's going to be a massive letdown for him and the Colts, assuming he remains there.

But you haven't tried to answer my question of how he can be overrated if you won't rate him. Wentz is a guy I am very high on, but he's certainly not better than Newton at this moment. Goff...come on. Mariota and Winston certainly have the chance to be as good or better, but right now they're Newton-lite. Luck (another guy I like, apparently more than some) you could make the argument, but I can just as easily say Newton is better which is why I have them together on my list.

 

Newton had an elite season, he's a consistent top 10 guy (again, for me and a bunch of others, maybe not for you), and physically he's a brute. He's not on the level of Rodgers or Brady (you left out Matt Ryan btw), but there are only 3 QBs I'd take before Newton right now due to a variety of reasons: Rodgers, Ryan, and Carr.

[USABuffaloFan]

No, this is not me saying that Taylor is better than Newton.

 

Yes, I am anticipating a lot of folks just jumping down my throat and this thread.

 

Try being objective for even a second today.

 

 

In a vacuum, we're going to move on from our current QB after this year if our passing game doesn't vastly improve and use an arsenal of draft picks to supposedly draft our future franchise QB who will likely compete for the starting job right away with Taylor and/or Peterman.

 

Carolina is stuck with a guy with serious accuracy issues (today was far from an anomaly for Newton), who too often only throws to WRs who are wide open (helloooooo why were they so damn wide open at those points?!) and who already seems to be getting seriously affected by all the NFL hits he's taking.

 

The Panthers have a fantastic D. If they're a good team this year, their likely riding their Elite D all the way. Not their overrated QB.

 

 

Onto the next Elite D

Complete stupid post, I do not like cam and would not want him as our QB. That said, he led his team to a 15-1 record and Superbowl. He was the league MVP. Hate the guy but delete this subject!

[transplantbillsfan]

No, you haven't.

 

You're a liar.

 

No, I'm not a liar, you're just part of the group that's always angry.

 

You quoted me in a post where I don't even say Taylor's name but make a passing reference to him, mainly because of how hypocritical your post was in the things you point out with him?

 

I'm sorry, but clearly Newton was still the topic of conversation and has been for most of the thread, as much as I know you enjoy attacking me.

 

 

I hear risperidone is a good drug to treat overly aggressive behavior. Maybe you should ask your doctor about it.

 

 

But you haven't tried to answer my question of how he can be overrated if you won't rate him. Wentz is a guy I am very high on, but he's certainly not better than Newton at this moment. Goff...come on. Mariota and Winston certainly have the chance to be as good or better, but right now they're Newton-lite. Luck (another guy I like, apparently more than some) you could make the argument, but I can just as easily say Newton is better which is why I have them together on my list.

 

Newton had an elite season, he's a consistent top 10 guy (again, for me and a bunch of others, maybe not for you), and physically he's a brute. He's not on the level of Rodgers or Brady (you left out Matt Ryan btw), but there are only 3 QBs I'd take before Newton right now due to a variety of reasons: Rodgers, Ryan, and Carr.

 

are we going with "at this moment" or are we going with the better overall QB?

 

If we're going with "at this moment," Alex Smith is clearly better than Newton.

Edited September 19, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[GoBills808]

 

are we going with "at this moment" or are we going with the better overall QB?

 

If we're going with "at this moment," Alex Smith is clearly better than Newton.

I didn't mean 'at this moment' to mean 'a particular game to illustrate a point', I was referring to Wentz's future prospects in the NFL, clearly. Neither Smith nor Wentz, at this moment or any moment up until this one, are better QBs than Newton.

[transplantbillsfan]

I didn't mean 'at this moment' to mean 'a particular game to illustrate a point', I was referring to Wentz's future prospects in the NFL, clearly. Neither Smith nor Wentz, at this moment or any moment up until this one, are better QBs than Newton.

 

I like Wentz's future prospects better than Newton, then.

 

In a vacuum, I take Wentz. I'd also take Winston over Newton even though I still can't stand the off-the-field stuff from college.

 

I think I'd take Mariota, too.

 

You think Newton is better than Luck? I don't. And Luck's another guy I've always thought is overrated.

 

I think Prescott benefits more from the team around him and wouldn't put him above Newton.

 

I agree with your list up to that point, though.

 

So just taking those individual cases, that puts him at 13.

Edited September 19, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[NoSaint]

I'll say I enjoyed the post that quoted as praise for Tyrod a Carolina fan saying Tyrod looked good enough to be cams backup a

[BringBackOrton]

 

No, I'm not a liar, you're just part of the group that's always angry.

 

You quoted me in a post where I don't even say Taylor's name but make a passing reference to him, mainly because of how hypocritical your post was in the things you point out with him?

 

I'm sorry, but clearly Newton was still the topic of conversation and has been for most of the thread, as much as I know you enjoy attacking me.

 

 

 

Actually I've been trying to stick to Newton alone, except for my disclaimer at the beginning. Folks are definitely bringing him in, though. So as this has progressed I'm just rolling with the conversation.

 

And victim?

 

 

I don't feel victimized. You mistake my confusion for me playing the victim. Why people choose to come into threads they literally don't care to discuss is pretty confusing, to me.

More lies.

 

Just be honest, man!

Edited September 20, 2017 by jmc12290

[Fadingpain]

Place the following Newtons in order according to their level of over-ratedness. Most over-rated is #1, and so on.

 

A) Isaac Newton

B) Cam Newton

C) Juice Newton

D) Fig Newton

E) Olivia Newton-John

F) Newton, Massachusetts

G) Newton "Newt" Gingrich

H) Newton (Unit of force)

I) Nate Newton

J) Wayne Newton

[transplantbillsfan]

 

 

More lies.

 

Just be honest, man!

You're too cute with all your childish name calling.

 

I don't know why you let me get under your skin so easily. It blinds you and makes you think things are happening that aren't, I guess.

 

Cam Newton has been my focus in terms of discussion and interest in this thread that pretty directly and clearly states it's about Cam.

 

 

Oh well, Wednesday is here tomorrow and so is Broncos week. You going to take me up on the bet I offered you and your crew?

Edited September 20, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[GunnerBill]

I might believe Transplant wasn't making a comparison to Taylor if he hadn't told me earlier in the year he is only interested in talking about the Bills starting QB.

 

On the topic at hand... yea Cam has been bad through 2 games. I actually think he has been bad since that Superbowl defeat for the most part. There are some mitigating factors...

 

1. The Panthers tackle play last season and through two games has been beyond brutal. The Matt Kalil contract was the worst handed out this offseason. I think as a result Cam has started to see ghost pressures.

 

2. Their weapons are not great. Benjamin has lost any burst he once had and is basically just a contested catch, redzone and posession guy now. Funchess as their other starter is gross. If he was 3 inches shorter he wouldn't be in the league. He is bad.

 

3. They are trying to fast track McCaffrey. He hasn't massively impressed me through 2 games I have to say. Scale his workload back... let JStew be the bellcow and have packages of plays McCaffrey comes in to run.

 

4. I feel like they are stale at coordinator. Mike Shula has done a good job with Cam through his early years but now to develop him as a passer they need the adapt the offense. I think McCaffrey and Curtis Samuel were drafted to help with that. I just don't believe they are being used properly.

 

However, even allowing for that I have always thought Cam is in that 10-14 bracket of QBs. To make the jump any higher he has to be a better passer.... cos the likes of Stafford, Rivers... even Flacco have him beat there all day.

[BuffaloHokie13]

I know you aren't trying to compare the 2, but I just finished crunching the numbers from this past week and they were too similar to not share. So far this year:

 

Cam: 74 Attempts (Pass + Sacks + Rush), 189.5 YPG, 2.7% TD %, 1.35% TO %

Tyrod: 74 Attempts (Pass + Sacks + Rush), 209.0 YPG, 2.7% TD %, 1.35% TO %

 

Anyway, carry on.

Edited September 20, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13

[row_33]

I know you aren't trying to compare the 2, but I just finished crunching the numbers from this past week and they were to similar to not share. So far this year:

 

Cam: 74 Attempts (Pass + Sacks + Rush), 189.5 YPG, 2.7% TD %, 1.35% TO %

Tyrod: 74 Attempts (Pass + Sacks + Rush), 209.0 YPG, 2.7% TD %, 1.35% TO %

 

Anyway, carry on.

 

shows how totally meaningless these stats are for context

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

shows how totally meaningless these stats are for context

Yeah, TDs and Turnovers per attempt are totally meaningless.

 

If anything it speaks to sample-size. But, if you look, Cam simply hasn't been the same since 2015. It's not just a 2 game stretch this year.

[C.Biscuit97]

Yeah, the guy coming off a major injury where he threw 2 passes all preseason sucks. His Heisman sucks. His national championship sucks. His MVP sucks. His Super Bowl berth sucks. We won't be very good if we had Cam for his whole career. He sucks.

Yeah, TDs and Turnovers per attempt are totally meaningless.

 

If anything it speaks to sample-size. But, if you look, Cam simply hasn't been the same since 2015. It's not just a 2 game stretch this year.

He wasn't good in 2015. But it's 2 games off a major injury.

 

But if I was a Carolina fan (joke fanbase), I'd be worried because their oline sucks. If they had a less mobile qb, it probably would have been a 3-3 tie.