Mark VI Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8249573 "Market Value" wasn't the term mentioned for Jennings. T Jonas Jennings to the San Francisco 49ers: As we said, this is the worst move in free agency so far. Why in the heck the 49ers would pay a so-so tackle a contract that includes $14 million in bonus money is beyond imagination. Jennings is a decent player, but he isn't worth that kind of money. Agent Todd France should be put in the Agent Hall of Fame for getting that kind of deal. We know the 49ers have money to burn, but is signing an average player on the line a good move? It isn't in this space. "Worst deal I've seen," said one personnel director. "But hold on. I'm sure there's more to follow."
BillnutinHouston Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8249573 "Market Value" wasn't the term mentioned for Jennings. T Jonas Jennings to the San Francisco 49ers: As we said, this is the worst move in free agency so far. Why in the heck the 49ers would pay a so-so tackle a contract that includes $14 million in bonus money is beyond imagination. Jennings is a decent player, but he isn't worth that kind of money. 262046[/snapback] This is why TD is the GM and the TD haters hack away at their keyboards like the rest of us.
Mark VI Posted March 4, 2005 Author Posted March 4, 2005 This is why TD is the GM and the TD haters hack away at their keyboards like the rest of us. 262048[/snapback] Indeed. There is always poor reasoning for why certain teams overpay. Dallas has Parcells Coaching for 1 or 2 more years. So he's overspending without any care for the next guy after him (... who will be in cap hell ) . Sna Fran just hired Mike Nolan as Head Coach and seeks instant credibility with the fan base. They need to drive ticket sales. Short term planning. Other teams believe they are one player away and will take the leap. I don't see any T. Owens types in this Free Agent class. So sitting in the sidelines for a couple days while some player agents sober up is always a prudent move. I still believe the Bills will improve the OL and get some other good players in the next few weeks. Still lots of good players out there at positions of need. Unlike the Hot Pockets crowd, I'm not going to wail every day until it happens. I enjoy the speculation,discussion and rumors. The outright crying threads without any substance, will start to vanish. They add nothing to the forum.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8249573 "Market Value" wasn't the term mentioned for Jennings. T Jonas Jennings to the San Francisco 49ers: As we said, this is the worst move in free agency so far. Why in the heck the 49ers would pay a so-so tackle a contract that includes $14 million in bonus money is beyond imagination. Jennings is a decent player, but he isn't worth that kind of money. Agent Todd France should be put in the Agent Hall of Fame for getting that kind of deal. We know the 49ers have money to burn, but is signing an average player on the line a good move? It isn't in this space. "Worst deal I've seen," said one personnel director. "But hold on. I'm sure there's more to follow." 262046[/snapback] Shh....don't tell d_wag that.
d_wag Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 Shh....don't tell d_wag that. 262090[/snapback] is he allowed to post this? an opinion by a sportswriter on the jennings deal? oh wait, that's right, he agrees with you guys.........it's oh-tay!! god forbid someone posts the alternative view that shows TD getting ripped in the media..........
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 is he allowed to post this? an opinion by a sportswriter on the jennings deal? oh wait, that's right, he agrees with you guys.........it's oh-tay!! god forbid someone posts the alternative view that shows TD getting ripped in the media.......... 262093[/snapback] That's right, it's all a conspiracy to keep the TD haters down. BT, I'm not a huge fan of TD's. He's made plenty of mistakes. BUT you can not call him cheap when he threw mad bling at Takeo, Fletch, Moulds and...ick...Bledsoe.
d_wag Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 That's right, it's all a conspiracy to keep the TD haters down. BT, I'm not a huge fan of TD's. He's made plenty of mistakes. BUT you can not call him cheap when he threw mad bling at Takeo, Fletch, Moulds and...ick...Bledsoe. 262099[/snapback] i've called him cheap in reference to keeping his own, not regarding other team's UFA's.........he doesn't have a great track record in this area as of yet, and with his tenure increasing and more contracts coming up for renewal, it is very important going forward........
Mark VI Posted March 4, 2005 Author Posted March 4, 2005 You guys can rip TD a new one, for all I care. He's not a Deity in my eyes. Just back it up with some intelligent ideas regarding aquiring/keeping players and fitting their salaries within the framework of the cap. It's obvious Jennings asked for far more than he's worth and found a sucker. That doesn't make TD dumb, since he has a limited cap to work with plus an idea of Jennings true worth.
d_wag Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 You guys can rip TD a new one, for all I care. He's not a Deity in my eyes. Just back it up with some intelligent ideas regarding aquiring/keeping players and fitting their salaries within the framework of the cap. It's obvious Jennings asked for far more than he's worth and found a sucker. That doesn't make TD dumb, since he has a limited cap to work with plus an idea of Jennings true worth. 262123[/snapback] so does that make polian dumb for paying even more to keep his solid, 4th year RT around?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 so does that make polian dumb for paying even more to keep his solid, 4th year RT around? 262129[/snapback] the Colts will have to pay the piper in the near future just like the Titans did this year.
Mark VI Posted March 4, 2005 Author Posted March 4, 2005 so does that make polian dumb for paying even more to keep his solid, 4th year RT around? 262129[/snapback] Yes, considering their Defense is ranked #29 and keeps them from going deep in the playoffs. Now he has little to no cap space left to address that.
d_wag Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 Yes, considering their Defense is ranked #29 and keeps them from going deep in the playoffs. Now he has little to no cap space left to address that. 262137[/snapback] well, to each his own.......obviously there are two different strategies at play here and both polian and donahoe are competent GM's........neither is stupid, but both have made mistakes in the past........i think donahoe made a mistake handling his young OT and you think polian made a mistake handling his young OT.........we'll see how it all shakes down over the next few years.........
Kelly the Dog Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 i've called him cheap in reference to keeping his own, not regarding other team's UFA's.........he doesn't have a great track record in this area as of yet, and with his tenure increasing and more contracts coming up for renewal, it is very important going forward........ 262110[/snapback] This is his fifth year. Name one of our own free agents that TD should have signed for the money they were asking that has done anything for another team? That you would call a big mistake, or even a small mistake. Winfield? At 36 mil or whatever he got who didn't want to stay? He signed Vincent for less and we got better.
d_wag Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 This is his fifth year. Name one of our own free agents that TD should have signed for the money they were asking that has done anything for another team? That you would call a big mistake, or even a small mistake. Winfield? At 36 mil or whatever he got who didn't want to stay? He signed Vincent for less and we got better. 262153[/snapback] winfield.........it wouldn't have taken 36M to sign him the summer before his free agency.........TD made the choice to let him test the market and we lost him.........vincent did not seem "better" to me last year....... like i said, there isn't much data to go on because not many players have seen their contracts come to a conclusion........with all of TD's housekeeping, the majority have been cut.........with some of TD's own free agent signings and draft picks coming up the next few years, there will be much more to base this on in the future and his handling of potential free agents will become much more important.......
obie_wan Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 i've called him cheap in reference to keeping his own, not regarding other team's UFA's.........he doesn't have a great track record in this area as of yet, and with his tenure increasing and more contracts coming up for renewal, it is very important going forward........ 262110[/snapback] maybe that's because he has first hand knowledge to access that those players weren't worth the money they wanted and got elsewhere. His only major blunder was overpaying Drew last year.
Steven in MD Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 The best argument to be made is that should our left tackle be of less quality than JJ, then we have saved cap spaced but got inferior talent. What makes ANY GM great is the ability to find superior talent at budget prices. TD has not shown the ability to do this. What he has shown is that he let go players that had high salary demands, and replaced them with other players, usually of less talent.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 winfield.........it wouldn't have taken 36M to sign him the summer before his free agency.........TD made the choice to let him test the market and we lost him.........vincent did not seem "better" to me last year....... like i said, there isn't much data to go on because not many players have seen their contracts come to a conclusion........with all of TD's housekeeping, the majority have been cut.........with some of TD's own free agent signings and draft picks coming up the next few years, there will be much more to base this on in the future and his handling of potential free agents will become much more important....... 262159[/snapback] So you're saying he doesn't have a good record on these things because there is not enough data on it. To me, that doesn't seem like it warrants a bad grade. I loved AW, he was my favorite player. But he wasn't going to sign with the Bills for less than he could make. Look what he did to the Jets? You cannot sign a lot of these guys just because you go to them early. AW always made it clear he was going to test FA and everyone knew he was going to command top dollar. TD did the right thing. He let him go, he signed a proven vet for much less, and the team actually did better after it turned out, partly because the guy he signed in place of AW was always looked at as a FS when no longer able or needed to play CB. Now we have a top notch FS. You are surely entitled to this opinion, I just think the Winfield case shows TD is a very good light and not a bad one. The first thing he did was have to choose which of his top name own FA was worth 40 mil. He chose Moulds and signed him. A lot of people cried over Wiley, who SD signed for enormous numbers. Look what happened.
rastabillz Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 d Don't you think JJ durability was the reason TD did not make an attempt to resign him? He has been injured every year and throwing huge $ at a plaler who has a tendency miss games may not be the wisest way to spend our finite resources.
d_wag Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 So you're saying he doesn't have a good record on these things because there is not enough data on it. To me, that doesn't seem like it warrants a bad grade. i would give him a bad grade in this area because we lost two good, young players despite the fact our cap is healthy....... I loved AW, he was my favorite player. But he wasn't going to sign with the Bills for less than he could make. Look what he did to the Jets? You cannot sign a lot of these guys just because you go to them early. AW always made it clear he was going to test FA and everyone knew he was going to command top dollar. i'm sorry man, but i just don't agree......not every guy is going to sign an extension and avoid free agency, but if you treat someone fairly and give them a reasonable offer, a lot of players will jump at it.........other teams manage to keep their best young talent around so i'm not going to cut slack to TD by saying "so and so wanted to go and wasn't going to take our money"........if you want to take the alternative viewpoint that it's the player's fault, go right ahead, but i'm not buying it.......... TD did the right thing. He let him go, he signed a proven vet for much less, and the team actually did better after it turned out, partly because the guy he signed in place of AW was always looked at as a FS when no longer able or needed to play CB. Now we have a top notch FS. he went with the cheaper option........the cheaper option broke down and did not contribute much last season.......thankfully, a good draft by TD in mcgee stepped up and filled the role, which is what needs to happen if TD is going to continue to go with the "cheaper" option when facing an impending free agent....... You are surely entitled to this opinion, I just think the Winfield case shows TD is a very good light and not a bad one. and i respectfully disagree.......i think it demonstrates what happens when a GM isn't aggresive enough pursuing impending free agents.........philly has figured this out and gets to their players very early in deals, and i would like to see this model adopted.........they target young players, they submit respectable offers, and they negioate, and they hammer out deals keeping players far away from their free agency date........it doesn't work with everyone (see micheal lewis, who they have been trying to extend but won't bite), but it does work with many (see lito sheppard, sheldon brown, and greg lewis -- all are working under very reasonable deals because the eagles showed faith in them)....... The first thing he did was have to choose which of his top name own FA was worth 40 mil. He chose Moulds and signed him. A lot of people cried over Wiley, who SD signed for enormous numbers. Look what happened. we were working under a different cap then.......it wasn't good, and we needed to dig out from it.........with the cap in good shape now there is no excuse for a GM not to make every effort they can to retain good, young players.......if they don't show an effort the player will hit free agency and not look back.......we have seen this with winfield and now jonas.......not a good trend with many more players seeing their contracts expire in future years compared to the first few years under TD's tenure.........
d_wag Posted March 4, 2005 Posted March 4, 2005 d Don't you think JJ durability was the reason TD did not make an attempt to resign him? He has been injured every year and throwing huge $ at a plaler who has a tendency miss games may not be the wisest way to spend our finite resources. 262200[/snapback] i don't think there was one reason why TD didn't try to sign jonas.......certainly his durablity played into it.......i think the money that MW is earning to play RT has weighed into his thinking as well (which is a TD self-inflicted wound - no one forced him to take a RT at #4 overall).......obviously TD's overall evaluation resulted in an conclusion that JJ did not warrent the market value or that he didn't want to pay that much for any LT.......i just think he's wrong in this case........LT is the most important position on the line, hands down, and as joe gibbs stated the other day at the samuels press conference, and i quote, "good, young LT's are VERY hard to find and you don't throw them away".........i think we just threw one away.......time will tell........
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